So what I have noticed so far this season is prices seem to be higher than ever. This is supposed to be a depressed market with many people out of work or just hanging on. But prices for many classics seem to be quite high. Most of what I consider to be outragious prices are on projects, restomods, clones,etc. Not on the traditional premium cars. Anybody buying these overpriced vehicles? Are these sellers out of touch?
Have Classic Prices Gone Crazy???????
blm
41 - 60 of 64 Posts
I guess the stock market is crazy cuz people don't want to be stuck with cash. When Sam's been creating trillions of. dollars from thin air, they can't be worth much...especially in the future. My $0.02
Joined
·
367 Posts
I see you're outside of Philly. There was a really nice 55 Chevy listed on Facebook marketplace in Southampton Bucks County. It had a ZZ430 crate motor, Holley fuel injection, Tremec 5 speed, and a 9" Currie built rear. The guy wanted $36K OBO. I looked at that ad about 4-5 times and considered looking at the car and when I had finally made the decision to just go see it, it had already sold. Shame on me for waiting.
Now I'm kicking myself
Joined
·
17,266 Posts
It's simple...supply and demand.
I sold a frame off restored 72 SS454 tribute car I built for $45,000 in late May. Also sold 2 other cars for $80,000+ in the last couple months. It's a sellers market right now.
I am busier now than I have ever been with work on Chevelles and other muscle cars. I have a 2 year wait time for people that want cars built. Vendors are weeks out due to high demand. I am just now getting in wire harnesses from AAW that I ordered 6 weeks ago.
On the topic of prices on these cars, people have to realize what it takes to restore one regardless of what it is. To restore a typical east coast car to be a nice and respectable driver will cost at least $75,000 unless you want a half assed hack job done. Time and materials are expensive.
I sold a frame off restored 72 SS454 tribute car I built for $45,000 in late May. Also sold 2 other cars for $80,000+ in the last couple months. It's a sellers market right now.
I am busier now than I have ever been with work on Chevelles and other muscle cars. I have a 2 year wait time for people that want cars built. Vendors are weeks out due to high demand. I am just now getting in wire harnesses from AAW that I ordered 6 weeks ago.
On the topic of prices on these cars, people have to realize what it takes to restore one regardless of what it is. To restore a typical east coast car to be a nice and respectable driver will cost at least $75,000 unless you want a half assed hack job done. Time and materials are expensive.
Joined
·
371 Posts
I have 74 corvette I restored. I have $22K into this car including buying the car. I know it's not a really popular year. I really like the car, but decided to sell it. I figured i'd list it for $22k. well I haven't sold it, yet, but I have had couple folks offer me $20k. well I've got a buyer supposed to meet to buy the car. well see. like you said lot of tires kickers. but he did seem serious. most folks had told me the car would not fetch more than $14k. but who knew, there's something in the air these days.
They all want it for free. They will see a glossed up hooptie that looks good in pics then compare it to yours without looking at either.
Only guy I had show up, when he saw it in person said "ok now I can see why youre asking what you are"....I lose patience with tthe whiners trying theri prowess on the phone thats usually the end of it
Steve I wouldnt take less than 30..lot for a Camino but too many listed for way more for lesser quality builds.
Problem is mine isnt what most want and doesnt have the trendy stuff. Vintage Ac, hacked dash, power seats, goofy dub wheels.
What confuses me is say look at Maple Motors on YT...most of those are worn out pos nothing works, needs TLC selling for 20s all day.
I dont think Caminos have/will ever be a big ticket item and knew that when I started the build. May just have to take it on the chin for less if I find the right house.
Probably list my Silverado for 12, its being fully restored right now be done in 2 weeks
88 Convertible C4 probably start at 8 see what happens.
Only guy I had show up, when he saw it in person said "ok now I can see why youre asking what you are"....I lose patience with tthe whiners trying theri prowess on the phone thats usually the end of it
Steve I wouldnt take less than 30..lot for a Camino but too many listed for way more for lesser quality builds.
Problem is mine isnt what most want and doesnt have the trendy stuff. Vintage Ac, hacked dash, power seats, goofy dub wheels.
What confuses me is say look at Maple Motors on YT...most of those are worn out pos nothing works, needs TLC selling for 20s all day.
I dont think Caminos have/will ever be a big ticket item and knew that when I started the build. May just have to take it on the chin for less if I find the right house.
Probably list my Silverado for 12, its being fully restored right now be done in 2 weeks
88 Convertible C4 probably start at 8 see what happens.
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
Is that R-code yellow??
Blue.
He recently came into an interesting way to source cars. He runs the tow contract for the city where he lives. Recently a realtor called him about towing some cars from several properties they were selling after the owner passed away. Because he processes the paperwork through proper channels he has become their “first call”. He has come across some pretty interesting cars and the prices can be pretty good since everyone involved is more interested in selling the property than getting top dollar for the cars. Many aren’t worth much, but some are, or are at least interesting. This might be something worth looking into based on your line of work.
Steve R
Joined
·
13 Posts
It's the changing demographics of the car hobby.
When I was a kid (1980s/1990s), we lived in a very modest, lower class neighborhood. 1/2 acre lots, 3br/2ba, 1500-1800 sq. ft. homes, some with no or one car garages. So very entry level (entry level by American standards obviously). And there were several really nice antiques and classics in the neighborhood. And there was a neighborhood just like ours down the road where a guy had a super nice C2.
Nowadays, you won't see a single car like that in a neighborhood like that. Because middle class wages have been stagnant for 40 years (adjusted for inflation obviously) and lower class wages have probably dropped, the people who live in neighborhoods like that can't afford those cars.
As a result, ownership and restoration of hobby vehicles have moved up the socioeconomic ladder. And as a result, there is no downward pressure on prices. Because the people who can afford this stuff aren't affected by a $10-$25K increase in prices.
Forbes had an article a few years ago when a Ferrari 250GTO sold for something like $53M and a Wall St. guy told them "the billionaires are pushing the millionaires out of the car hobby" (I briefly looked for the article to link it here but couldn't find it). If you're a billionaire, the difference between a 250GTO costing $30M and $50M is like the difference to us in a Chevelle going from $38K to $40K. So there's no downward pressure on those prices.
And the same thing is occurring in the more standard stuff, like musclecars. The millionaires are pushing the middle class out of the hobby and the lower class is long gone and has been for 25 years.
Everyone talks about how prices go up as the people who grew up lusting after something get to middle age and make enough money to buy it. Hence boomers buying musclecars in the 1980s and 1990s. And the same thing happened to model Ts in the 1950s and 1960s. Their prices skyrocketed and when all the people who wanted them got old, the prices collapsed. And there are a lot of people who expect this to happen to the 1950s/early 1970s musclecars we all like.
I'm not so sure. I suspect there will be enough people to maintain interest in musclecar stuff to keep prices high more or less in perpetuity. Let's face it - we're now almost 40 years into people restoring and collecting 60's musclecars.
So I (sadly) have little hope for prices becoming more realistic again. I suspect they'll continue to inflate far beyond the inflation rate, because of the financial aspects of their owners.
When I was a kid (1980s/1990s), we lived in a very modest, lower class neighborhood. 1/2 acre lots, 3br/2ba, 1500-1800 sq. ft. homes, some with no or one car garages. So very entry level (entry level by American standards obviously). And there were several really nice antiques and classics in the neighborhood. And there was a neighborhood just like ours down the road where a guy had a super nice C2.
Nowadays, you won't see a single car like that in a neighborhood like that. Because middle class wages have been stagnant for 40 years (adjusted for inflation obviously) and lower class wages have probably dropped, the people who live in neighborhoods like that can't afford those cars.
As a result, ownership and restoration of hobby vehicles have moved up the socioeconomic ladder. And as a result, there is no downward pressure on prices. Because the people who can afford this stuff aren't affected by a $10-$25K increase in prices.
Forbes had an article a few years ago when a Ferrari 250GTO sold for something like $53M and a Wall St. guy told them "the billionaires are pushing the millionaires out of the car hobby" (I briefly looked for the article to link it here but couldn't find it). If you're a billionaire, the difference between a 250GTO costing $30M and $50M is like the difference to us in a Chevelle going from $38K to $40K. So there's no downward pressure on those prices.
And the same thing is occurring in the more standard stuff, like musclecars. The millionaires are pushing the middle class out of the hobby and the lower class is long gone and has been for 25 years.
Everyone talks about how prices go up as the people who grew up lusting after something get to middle age and make enough money to buy it. Hence boomers buying musclecars in the 1980s and 1990s. And the same thing happened to model Ts in the 1950s and 1960s. Their prices skyrocketed and when all the people who wanted them got old, the prices collapsed. And there are a lot of people who expect this to happen to the 1950s/early 1970s musclecars we all like.
I'm not so sure. I suspect there will be enough people to maintain interest in musclecar stuff to keep prices high more or less in perpetuity. Let's face it - we're now almost 40 years into people restoring and collecting 60's musclecars.
So I (sadly) have little hope for prices becoming more realistic again. I suspect they'll continue to inflate far beyond the inflation rate, because of the financial aspects of their owners.
Joined
·
15,814 Posts
I agree that once the boomers, who seem to be the majority owners of 50s-70s classic cars get too old to drive or die off the prices on our beloved classics will tumble. However i for one could care less as I bought over 20 years ago before prices escalated. Now that is not to say I havent put a ton into inprovements,projects and the biggest a mild frame off. But as of writing this ive had over twenty years of enjoyment and consider whatever I spent the price of addmission. Besides by the time they go down ill be dead or too old to care.
Joined
·
2,996 Posts
Interesting thoughts............I agree on some of it, not sure I do on other stuff.
1969, when I came home from the Army, I started a job paying $375.00 a month. I paid rent, utilities, groceries and payments on a 68 Mustang GT.
It was in the late 70's before I could afford a second car, but outgrew the Mustang when my daughter came along, and had several other newer cars. As time went on, I finally got to afford to buy and restore stuff I like. Now that I'm in my 70's, I've downsized. My wife has her Tahoe, and I have my 71 C30, my 66 Chevelle and my 56 210.
I recently sold a 47 Chevy 2 door sedan project that I'd never get finished in the time I have left, and partnered on a running, stock 48 Chevy coupe. They used to bring a lot more money than we sold them for, and found the market to be much smaller than I would have expected.
I suppose "muscle cars" will fall to the same fate. I just don't know that several decade from now, people will be scambling to pick up a cherished muscle car from the 60's or 70's.
I'll leave that decision to my daughter son-in-law and grandson............they get my cars when I don't need them any more.
What you describe about prices escalating has been going on for decades. When I was just out of high school in the early-80’s I was priced out of the cars I wanted. I wanted a Hemi, Shelby, 69 Z28, AAR Cuda, etc.. I did what most people did, I adapted, I bought SS Camaro’s, 383 Road Runners, Mustang GT’s because those were what I could afford. Anyone that says they are priced out of the market just isn’t trying hard enough, they need to expand their horizon. Just because their dream car is out of their price range doesn’t mean every fun or interesting car is. The domestic manufacturers started pumping out performance again in the 1980’s and hasn’t stopped. Many of those cars can be found in good condition at very reasonable prices. Earlier this year a buddy got into an accident on the way to the track for a Saturday race, totaling his 98 SS Camaro. By that Wednesday’s race he had found a nice 2000 SS Camaro for $5,500. Deals are out there, even if someone wants a 60’s car, they can be found, it takes work and persistence, somehow many flippers have found the formula.
As for the coming collapse in value, people have been saying that for decades, it still hasn’t happened. Interest and prices will remain strong for quality cars that are desirable. It’s the tough cars that should have always been considered parts cars or the orphan models and 4 doors that will take the biggest hit. When you see muscle cars and other 60’s and 70’s cars disappear from popular culture, that will be the time to worry, that’s not going to happen any time soon.
As for exotics like the Ferrari you mention and other cars in the same price range. They have little to no bearing on the market for muscle cars. Just like $30 million dollar estates in Beverley Hills has little to no impact on price of a tract house in San Fernando valley.
Steve R
Joined
·
371 Posts
very interesting, I've had this conversation several times, as I'm sure most of us have. I agree with you guys on a few fronts. I think it's true that muscle cars buyers, sellers, users, flippers are alive and well. just look at all the cars sold on mecum, barrett, plus a ton of dealers online that carry lots of cars and do sell them for good money. BUT on the other hand I got to belelive the rules of supply and demand will prevail. when is the question. well not sure if you agree but we are a dying breed. I got to tell you most if not every time I see a old car cruising around my neighborhood (Miami) there's an old dude driving it.... lol.
We are I think in some way a very small group of old car lovers. think about it, I can tell you back in the day not all my friends worked on there cars, most didn't know or didn't have someone to show them. I had several friends and maybe two of us me included would take our cars apart, change engines, trani's, etc. we didn't have much money, we just loved tinkering with our cars. I know I did, and still do. now fast forward, only a few of us that work on cars have a good chance of finding a classic/muscle car. the ones back then that didn't work on there car, today IF they get the itch, they have to buy turn key, ready to enjoy, but most wont, cause they have other responsiblites now. so the breed is very small.
I cant say young folks don't like them, it's just a diffent time we are living in. The newer generation didn't grow up tinkering with there car to get to school, or clean points when car started coughing. So their 10yr old car is a 2010.
But, I have three daughters and we love cruising around in our 68 Chevelle. not sure they feel what I feel, but they do enjoy it. already put my grand daughter in it today, and she was all smiles
In some ways I feel im just getting started...
We are I think in some way a very small group of old car lovers. think about it, I can tell you back in the day not all my friends worked on there cars, most didn't know or didn't have someone to show them. I had several friends and maybe two of us me included would take our cars apart, change engines, trani's, etc. we didn't have much money, we just loved tinkering with our cars. I know I did, and still do. now fast forward, only a few of us that work on cars have a good chance of finding a classic/muscle car. the ones back then that didn't work on there car, today IF they get the itch, they have to buy turn key, ready to enjoy, but most wont, cause they have other responsiblites now. so the breed is very small.
I cant say young folks don't like them, it's just a diffent time we are living in. The newer generation didn't grow up tinkering with there car to get to school, or clean points when car started coughing. So their 10yr old car is a 2010.
But, I have three daughters and we love cruising around in our 68 Chevelle. not sure they feel what I feel, but they do enjoy it. already put my grand daughter in it today, and she was all smiles
In some ways I feel im just getting started...
Joined
·
7,556 Posts
Decades ago I remember guys restoring their automotive passion of choice, be they British sports cars or classics like Auburns or Packards, they would set out to restore a car mainly because they loved and / or appreciated it. They never went in expecting to make money. I knew a guy who commissioned a Swedish ship-builder to hand make all the wood for his '47 Chrysler Town & Country convertible. He didn't plan to make a killing on it, but he did just sell his '30 Packard project that basically eliminated his mortgage and led to the T&C project. He had a Bantam & a Metropolitan waiting in the wings, but he never got to them before cancer took him.
That all seemed to get perverted in the 1980's, when on the heels of giveaway prices on musclecars in the mid to late 1970s suddenly some folks found they could make money flipping them. When it came to rare cars, people justified putting money into them (to think we scoffed at a $5000 Hemi Challenger in 1980). Investment brokers began to take notice and then the general public began to see collector cars as something they expected to make money on. It was considered an investment to restore the right car (same time & money to restore a turkey but a better return on the right car). Enthusiasts that would love and properly use an LS6 Chevelle were priced out & many ended up on velvet pillows (which may have saved them from a late night wrap around a pole).
That all seemed to get perverted in the 1980's, when on the heels of giveaway prices on musclecars in the mid to late 1970s suddenly some folks found they could make money flipping them. When it came to rare cars, people justified putting money into them (to think we scoffed at a $5000 Hemi Challenger in 1980). Investment brokers began to take notice and then the general public began to see collector cars as something they expected to make money on. It was considered an investment to restore the right car (same time & money to restore a turkey but a better return on the right car). Enthusiasts that would love and properly use an LS6 Chevelle were priced out & many ended up on velvet pillows (which may have saved them from a late night wrap around a pole).
I’ll jump in on this and posit my theory. Now, this is anecdotal but I would guess that the Old guys stuck at home right now because of the Pandemic are looking for something to spend money on. I have a Fast Home Improvement business and I am so busy right now with work I can’t believe it. Guess who most of my customers are? Boomer retirees. I have never seen so many of them on a daily basis. They all say the same thing....we were gonna go on this cruise, this trip, move here, move there but now we’re stuck here at the house. I’d guess there’s a bunch of them right now stuck in the house with the old lady looking for a reason to go hide in the garage. After they’ve watched every show on MotorTrend now 5X and re-runs of Mecum and BJ....well, why wouldn’t they drive up demand?
Joined
·
30 Posts
I'm new to this forum but not new to the hobby. I have a brother that seems to did up deals on a regular basis and that is where I got the 65 we just brought home. He bought it with a 454 and TH350 a couple years back and I gave him 3,000 for it without the big block but he did give me a 70 350 and 200R4. It will be a driver when dome, no real hot rodding or drag racing, that's what I'm building my Maverick for.
Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head, squarely. After 60 years of work, I'm retired...basically in prison...in Fresno (extra punishment!)
Wish I knew couple years ago you were interested in a '65. I wuz in DuPont trying to figure out what to do with my El Camino in Fresno.
I’ll chime in again, as I think I may have posted earlier in this thread. I’m one of the younger guys in this hobby at 41 years old. When we bought our ‘68, a year+ ago, we got a decent deal. Both the seller and I were happy. I know I’ll never be able to retire on the resale of our car. I’ve been following prices since the mid 1990s. Other than some hiccups, they’ve been rising. Obviously, the premium cars garner the big money. I’ll never be able to afford an LS6, Z-16, even a true L78 is out of my price range. Our car is a Malibu, still badged as such, with modifications. It has a healthy 396, beefed up TH400, bucket seats, console, etc. It’s far from perfect, just a fun driver that still gets second looks and thumbs up whenever we take it out. Sadly, on an upper middle class income, it was a stretch to buy it. We have no children, affordable mortgage payment, no credit card debt, quit smoking last October, etc. This is an expensive hobby. The buy in price is what will eventually kill the hobby. I was told by a friend in 1997, the year I graduated high school, to look for a car that was already done or close to done because I’d never re-coup the money spent on restoration. He was right. I wanted a “finished” car because I didn’t want to alienate my wife by spending all of my time with the car and none with her. Some may call that backward thinking. But, I have my priorities, and she will always be #1. She saved my life, but that’s a story for a different time. If you’d like to hear it, PM me.
41 - 60 of 64 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
