dont know never wiped a cam as of yet but things can and do happen.

 

Normally just fine particles that the filter will catch unless it's an extreme spring pressure situation. More than a few times we've done stock rebuilds on engines with a few wiped lobes and the crank polished std.

 

I lost 3 or 4 lobes off a cam a few years ago, it did serious damage. The metal through the motor was like sand, ruined virtually everything. It lodged in the pistons and scored the cylinder walls. I got away with honing the block, but the pistons were junk. It got in the rod and main bearings, ruining them and scoring the crank, which was already at max undersize. Got grit all through the top end too. I went roller at that time, which required upgrading everything in the heads aside from the valves. All told the bill was over $3500 for parts and machining from that little lesson.

Devin

 

Normally it happens real fast. Once you wear through the the hardened surface the lobe disapears, It will wipe out the whole engine in a matter of seconds. It happened to me once and the engine looked like someone added sand to the oil!

 

Usually it's because the lifter doesn't rotate, and that, usually starting at initial start-up and break-in... the lobe is forced to slide under the base of the lifter, instead of the lifter rotating and rolling with its edge on the edge of the lobe; instead of a roller-bearing-like circular pattern around the lifter, there's a rectangular place where the lobe scrapes it; and it doesn't take long for the whole sysem to grind itself to oblivion.

I've never had one that wiped out, where the engine DIDN'T need to be torn down and the metal shavings rodded out of the oil passages. It has taken out the rest of the motor EVERY TIME. It seems like, "in theory", the filter "should" catch the debris, but there's always SO MUCH of it, that even if 1% manages to find its way through, it's all over for the bearings.

 

I think it may depend on spring pressure. I never had one fail on a high performance engine, but I had a few stock engines with a bad cam lobe that were put back into service with a new cam and lifters after cleaning out the oil pan. The metal was very fine like it ocurred over a long period of time. The engines ran fine afterwards like nothing happened.
I'm sure their life was shortened, but I didn't have them to the end of their useful life.
Squido

 

This past spring we buildt a circle track engine and I ordered a cam from Harold UD and Arrington ground it and I wanted a P-55 core and they said they don't use them and their Crane core would be fine and my reply was I am not very comfortable with this choice but will try it. During the season we had to change the pan and and noticed 2 lobes starting to fail and there was no scuffing the lobes were just had the polished look.

I called Arringtons shop and told them I was not happy with there cam and mike said I was using to much spring pressure and I tild him this was the first cam I have ever had fail and I use the same spring 235-D ISKY 130@the seat and 320 over the nose and this has worked for years.

Any how got the engine back it still won the championship and told the driver after the last race what we found 2 months before and he said he thought the engine was laying down a little LOL, The GM lifter still have there crown so it was surely the cam that failed.

One cylinder was scratched a little and there was glitter in the pan but the crank and bearings looked like they were just put in BECAUSE THE BYPASS WAS PLUGGED TRAPPING EVERY THING IN THE FILTER.

 

This past spring we buildt a circle track engine and I ordered a cam from Harold UD and Arrington ground it and I wanted a P-55 core and they said they don't use them and their Crane core would be fine and my reply was I am not very comfortable with this choice but will try it. During the season we had to change the pan and and noticed 2 lobes starting to fail and there was no scuffing the lobes were just had the polished look.

I called Arringtons shop and told them I was not happy with there cam and mike said I was using to much spring pressure and I tild him this was the first cam I have ever had fail and I use the same spring 235-D ISKY 130@the seat and 320 over the nose and this has worked for years.

Any how got the engine back it still won the championship and told the driver after the last race what we found 2 months before and he said he thought the engine was laying down a little LOL, The GM lifter still have there crown so it was surely the cam that failed.

One cylinder was scratched a little and there was glitter in the pan but the crank and bearings looked like they were just put in BECAUSE THE BYPASS WAS PLUGGED TRAPPING EVERY THING IN THE FILTER.

Carl, which core was this?

8620 Roller Core with gold plating between the lobes?

 

I don`t mean to hijack but it`s kinda on topic. Are the old school grinds any less probable to go flat than the moder grind cams? I`m considering using the generic performer cam for my truck engine and plan to use stock springs. I figured with the old school slow ramps I should be fine but I haven`t broke in a cam in about 10 years so I`m a little worried since this will be my daily drive and only means of trasportation.

 

Anthony, I thinks so.

I have used a couple slow rams such as the 234/244 @.050" .488"/.510" 114° which cam out years ago recently (which it is rare for me to use a flat tappet cam).

The solid flat tappet in the Camaro (256/264 @.050" .545"/.563" 105°) has over 150 passes with no issues.

I think when you get these aggressive flat tappet cams the lifter gets on too much of an angle and starts to dig into the lobe under operatind conditions (so i would tend to agree with you that a milder lobe is less prone to having issues)

Just my $.02

 

Anthony and others,

Comp Cams has a process where they NITRIDE your flat tappet cam, costs about $240-$260 for a flat tappet cam and to have them NITRIDE it.

Comp claims they have had no issues at all with these,, I have one out there with no issues thus far. Its a NITRIDED Comp THUMPR and they are starting to keep some popular grinds NITRIDED off the shelf

 

Anthony and others,

Comp Cams has a process where they NITRIDE your flat tappet cam, costs about $240-$260 for a flat tappet cam and to have them NITRIDE it.

Comp claims they have had no issues at all with these,, I have one out there with no issues thus far. Its a NITRIDED Comp THUMPR and they are starting to keep some popular grinds NITRIDED off the shelf

For that much money I would just go roller and not worrie about it. I`m considering that too but I`m trying to ket the engine budget to a minimum.

 

Way too many variables to get 1-2 answers on that one.

lets look at a few:

* ISSUES WITH BLOCK & OR LIFTER BORE ANGLE

* DIDNT PROPERLY CLEAN BLOCK/HEADS/ETC POST MACHINE WORK AND METAL DEBRIES GET INTO OIL SYSTEM

* ACCIDNETIALLY INSTALLED DEEFECTIVE CAM LOBES & OR LIFTERS WITH SCRATCHES/DINGS/NICKS/CHIPS/ETC

* ACIDENTIALLY DAMAGED SCRTAHED/NICKED/DINGED/CHIPPED CAM LOBES & OR LIFTERS.

* IMPROPERLY LUBED THE CAM/LIFTERS ON INSTALL

* USED COMP CAMS THIN WATERY RED CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE THEN LET MOTOR SIT TO LONG PRIOR TO FIRIUP/CAM BREAKIN AND THE RED PRE-LUBE RAN/DRAINED OFF THE CAM/LIFTER PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* DIDNT USE CRANES GREY MOLY PASTE WHICH IS A GREAT ASSEMBLY LUBE THAT STAYS PUT/DOESNT DRAIN OFF UNTILL THE MOTOR IS FIRED UP.

* DIDNT DO STATIC VAVLE ADJ "PRIOR TO INTAKE INSTALL" SO THE MOLY CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE THATS PARTIALLY SMEARED/FORCED OUT FROM IN BETWEEN THE LIFTERS/LOBES COULD BE RE-APPLIED TO THE LOBES THAT ARE ACCESSABLE THRU THE BLOCK POST VALVE ADJ. YOU CAN USE A POPCILE STICK TO DO THIS AND CAN STILL ACCESS MANY OF THE LOBES

* NO ENGINE PRELUBE DONE TO PRESURIZE OILING SYSTEM PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* ENGINE PRELUBE NOT DONE PROPERLY WITH TOOL THAT CLOSES OFF THE LIFTER OIL PASSAGE/S TO PROPERLY PRESURIZE THE COMPLETE OILING SYSTEM PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* DIDNT USE PROPER OIL & OR OIL ADDITIVES LIKE FOR EX CHEVRONS DELO 15W-40 & GM'S OR CRANES SUPERLUBE ENGINE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE WITH PROPER ZDDP LVL'S FOR THE 25-30 MINUTE & APPROX 2,200-2,500 RPM CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN.

* DIDNT HAVE TIMING SET PROPERLY FOR INSTANT MOTOR FIREUP CAUSING EXCESSIVE CRANKING ON STARTER WIPING OFF MOST OFTHE CAM /LIFTER LUBE PRIOR TO STARTUP.

* POST FOREUP DIDT RUN ENOUGH TIMING WITH PERF CAM RESULINT IN THE MOTOR RUNNING CONSIDERABLY HOTTER THEN IT NORMALLY WOULD OVERHEATING THE OIL & MOTOR WHICH ISNT GOOD.

* DIDNT BREAKIN CAM ON OUTTER SPRINGS ONLY WHEN ADVISED BY CAM MFG FOR CAM WITH HI SPRING RATES.

* DIDNT RUN AN OIL WITH ENOUGH ZDDP POST CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN

* DONT DO FREQUENT OIL/FILTER CHANGES TO KEEP CONTAM IN OIL TO A MINIMUM FOR LESS FRICTION INBETWEEN LOBE/LIFTERS THAT CAN BE INCREASE WITH SMALL CONTAM/PARTICULATES THAT ARE IN THE OIL.

* MOTOR SEE'S EXCESSIVE IDLING IN HI TRAFFIC SITUATIONS WITH IDLE SPDEED SET VERY OW (ESP WITH AUTO TRANS) WHERE THERE ISNT MUCH OIL THROWN OFF THE CRANK TO AID IN CAM/LIFTER OIL AND THAT THE OIL PRESSURE IS CONSIDERABLY LOWER WITH A MOTR AT HOT IDLE TOO.

* POOR QUALITY CAM CORE THAT MAYBE WASN'T PROPERLY HARDENED BUT THATS RARE AND LESS LIKELY TO BE THE CAUSE FOR A BAD FLAT TAPPET CAM.

* AS STATED DIRECTLY ABOVE MY POST IS ALSO VERY GOOD ADVICE TOO :

Exactly !!! and for those who plug the bypass but continue to use a street filter your not fully protected ......plug the bypass and run a no bypass filter the Wix 51061r and plugged bypass saved my motor !!!

NOTE:ONE THING I WOULD ADVISE HERE IS FOR CAM LIFTER BREAKIN TO BE VERY WATCHFULL OF OIL PRESSURE WHEN RUNNING THE BLOCKED BYPASS AND FILTER WITH NO BYPASS . THA'S BECAUSE ONCE IN A WHILE THE FILER CAN BECOME PARTIALLY OR ALMOST FULLY BLOCKED/CLOGGED WITH THE MOLY CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE CONSIDERABLY LOWERING OIL PRESSURE SO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN RUNNING THIS SETUP.

* LASTLY,I WOULD ALSO RUN A FILTER MAG ESP FOR CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN,ITS AN EXTREEM POWERFUL MAGNET,CANT HUTR,YES ITS PRICEY AT $50 + BUT TO BETTER PROTECT YOU NEW 3K/4K/5K/+ 4 INVESTEMT EPS WITH FLATTAPPET CAM IN WORHT IT TO ME.

AND THATS NOT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT CAN EITHER 1 OR 2 BY THEMSELVES OR CAN COLLECTIVELY CAUSE A FLAT TAPPET CAM TO GO BAD DURRING BREAKIN/RIGHT AFTER BREAKIN.

Short of installing a new cam/lifters with mfg damage on them causing the cam to fail in short order or soon after breakin a flat tappet can can go bad at any time due to a multitude of reasons.

Over the past 37+ yrs i have been working on these sbc/bbc/and other motors in general i have seen flat tappet cams go bad durring breakin/right after breakin/in new cars in 1k-2k miles/30k miles/50k/90k/130k miles,there is no one or 2 good answers to your question IMHO.

Scott

 

A couple things I've wondered about on the nitrided cams, nitriding is not that expensive, I wonder if they need to straighten and do a additional polishing step after nitriding that is reflected in the price they are charging. Also, if cam failure is such a problem why not make it standard, I'm sure they would have less wear problems. The other problem is that nitriding is brittle and unless the edges are all radiused/polished you may see a increase in broken cams from cracking. Most nitriding is only a few thousands thick which means you shouldn't do anything other than a light polishing after nitriding. They have been tufftriding cranks for years which is a form of nitriding.

 

I wiped one after about 3 years of daily street driving. ran fine till i ate it. my fault. the car sat in storage for 2 years when i was stationed overseas in the military. came home on leave and didnt' change the oil before driving it. it had a fresh change before i put it up, but i knew better. then hotrodded around a bit. that did it quick like. it sat another 10 years before i tore it down. one lobe was completely round! another was going. bearings, cyl walls etc. were fine though. there was some glitter in the oil, but i didn't drive it after i ate the cam. it just sat.

 

Filter Magnet Yep on my shopping list ........ and yes with pugged bypass sonme commons sense is needed when cold starting and monitor oil pressure ...... not my daily driver so not a big deal

We only use the 1061 gold filter as the 1061R has a larger Micron rating which I don't like!!

Thanks .... will check that out ,