What is a 'typical built small block'? If you build a 'typical' engine you will get 'typical' results, which are 'typically' lower than expected.

 

The 195's are nice street heads. Depending on compression and cam, you can go from 400 to 500 HP! What can you live with!

 

i know typical is pretty vague. so i guess compression should be the highest that i can run on pump premium 93. cammed to suit that compression. im actually leaning towards a solid roller with isky redzones. i have a set of shaft mount rockers to keep a solid valve train under control.

 

467.5 :d

 

Our new 195 Eliminator head is just the ticket for this build....It will flow 300 CFM's @ .600 lift....an insane figure for such a small port, not to mention one with everything in stock locations for ease of assembly. I am of course referring to the "competition" ported version which is more money than the street stuff (about 2K or so for the pair). A medium sized solid roller (240's at .050) and 11 to 1 CR with a good cleaned up/ported Super Victor intake (or something similar), 950 HP carb, and 1.75" headers will easily produce 550 HP and 475-500 ft/lbs of TQ (huge for that displacement).

The key to these numbers are obviously the cylinder heads and these new Eliminators will set a new benchmark in SBC 23' performance. And while it might sound like "hype" right now, in six months alot of people will feel very differently when the results of build-ups like this start hitting the pages of these public forums....

Feel free to call me at AFR if you have any other questions, need some further assistance, or would like some free advice regarding my proposed combination above.

Thanks,
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

 

Our new 195 Eliminator head is just the ticket for this build....It will flow 300 CFM's @ .600 lift....in insane figure for such a small port, not to mention one with everything in stock locations for ease of assembly. I am of course referring to the "competition" ported version which is more money than the street stuff (about 2K or so for the pair). A medium sized solid roller (240's at .050) and 11 to 1 CR with a good cleaned up/ported Super Victor intake (or something similar), 950 HP carb, and 1.75" headers will easily produce 550 HP and 475-500 ft/lbs of TQ (huge for that displacement).

The key to these numbers are obviously the cylinder heads and these new Eliminators will set a new benchmark in SBC 23' performance. And while it might sound like "hype" right now, in six months alot of people will feel very differently when the results of build-ups like this start hitting the pages of these public forums....

Feel free to call me at AFR if you have any other questions, need some further assistance, or would like some free advice regarding my proposed combination above.

Thanks,
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

Tony.........Anytime you want another realworld test bed for your Best 23 degree stuff I'd be more than happy to bolt em' on and compare against my Brodix. Send em' to me and I will make sure the whole world knows the results!

 

You recommend a 950cfm carb for that setup instead of a 750? Is the 750 HolleyHP not enough? Thanks

Our new 195 Eliminator head is just the ticket for this build....It will flow 300 CFM's @ .600 lift....an insane figure for such a small port, not to mention one with everything in stock locations for ease of assembly. I am of course referring to the "competition" ported version which is more money than the street stuff (about 2K or so for the pair). A medium sized solid roller (240's at .050) and 11 to 1 CR with a good cleaned up/ported Super Victor intake (or something similar), 950 HP carb, and 1.75" headers will easily produce 550 HP and 475-500 ft/lbs of TQ (huge for that displacement).

The key to these numbers are obviously the cylinder heads and these new Eliminators will set a new benchmark in SBC 23' performance. And while it might sound like "hype" right now, in six months alot of people will feel very differently when the results of build-ups like this start hitting the pages of these public forums....

Feel free to call me at AFR if you have any other questions, need some further assistance, or would like some free advice regarding my proposed combination above.

Thanks,
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

 

383 10.7:1, Super Vic, AFR 195's (full-ported by hand, finished 210cc flow 300@600), Comp HR294, HP950-----525hp/495tq This motor runs 10.80's in a buddies 3600lb chevelle in good air.

Another friend has a similar 383 with TFS 215's with bowl work and a small hydro-roller (something like 224/224) made 495hp on the same dyno.

 

I had alum 195s (are they all alum?) on a 383 10.5:1 motor I had with a cam similar to what was described above (Lunati 245/550) with a victor jr and an 830 with 1 3/4" headers. It ran great and shifted it at 6500 all day on 93 unleaded. I think 210s are too big for that mild a cam and low rpm. Didn't have it dynoed but I'd bet it was 450+ hp.

 

You recommend a 950cfm carb for that setup instead of a 750? Is the 750 HolleyHP not enough? Thanks

The 950 HP is a killer piece in my opinion and works great on anything over 500 horses...dont forget that we are talking about a combination that should make over 550 HP with the proper complimenting components and attention to detail concerning the build. Also, the 950 HP isnt much larger than 750 standard Holley....its just a more optimized design and gets the higher CFM rating. Also, its not much different than the decision to install it on a bigblock if it were in the 550-600 horse range....it would just seem like a more natural choice to most people (the reality is the level of power should dictate the proper carb choice....and application of course). BTW....a good 750 wouldn't kill that combo (on a good single plane intake) in a heavy street car needing lots of bottom end grunt, but it wouldn't make as much peak TQ and high RPM power (IMO) as the more optimized higher flowing 950 HP version.

Tony M.

 

Not doubting the numbers Tony... but are those for real? I ask because I know how much it takes to get 300cfm from a small port like that.... just seems a bit much from what I've seen along the years. I have a set of Canfields which began as 197cc intakes and now are about 215cc, and they flow 305 @ .700" at 28". It took me a 'little' time to work to that point, lol. They're going on a 331" that hopefully will pump 650 on one gas 4bbl.

 

Not doubting the numbers Tony... but are those for real? I ask because I know how much it takes to get 300cfm from a small port like that.... just seems a bit much from what I've seen along the years. I have a set of Canfields which began as 197cc intakes and now are about 215cc, and they flow 305 @ .700" at 28". It took me a 'little' time to work to that point, lol. They're going on a 331" that hopefully will pump 650 on one gas 4bbl.

I will take your questioning as a compliment.....LOL

The guys that can really appreciate the numbers are the guys that have access to the equipment (flow benches etc.) and know how many 23' heads actually flow 300 CFM (regardless of size) and what it takes to get there. I spent months designing that intake port and it represents one of (if not the) most efficient port designs I have ever created. And a big thanks to Rick, the President, for giving me "another week" when he knew I already had numbers that would have been sufficient to be a far superior head than our current design. There is actually more to this story thats kind of entertaining but dont have time to get into it now...

Anyway...it is for real and no one is excited as I am to be getting to the dyno with the new street stuff. Based on the numbers and cross section, the results should be very impressive. Hoping to share those type of results with you guys in the months ahead.

And dont forget Im working on the larger stuff as well....the new 210 will flow close to 320 CFM @ .700 lift....almost 15 CFM greater than our current 227 with almost 20 cc's less intake port volume AND stock geometry where our current 227 is actually a 60/40 valve spacing.

Good stuff guys....just need to be patient a few more months.

Will keep you appraised of the new Eliminator race program as well (220 and 227 cc's) which will be a little behind the release of all the new street stuff.....I working on the 220 port design as we speak (type)....LOL

Later,
Tony

 

Lol... no harm intended. I'm sure you know how many hours I spent on and off the flowbench to get those numbers.... thus I tend to wonder when I see manufacturer's claims. I don't have much good solid AFR info firsthand but have seen MANY Dart small block heads including the Pro 1's that are FAR from the advertised numbers. That was what led me to find a port size and shape that I could work with myself to get what I wanted. I think I got those Canfields back in about 94 or so when they first came out. I am blessed to have R&J Performance (the place that did Koeffel's dirty work and really made the B-1 Mopar heads) in my backyard, so to speak. "Radar" is one of the best cylinder head guys there is IMO. They've done heads for many racers.... Force, Bernstein, Hoover, the late John Hagen (held the Pro Stock MPH record with Radar's Hemi heads), Walker Evans, and the list goes on and on. If you are able to post/email flow numbers and port views I'd appreciate it. Not sure if many others totally understand, but if you can get 300 @ .600" with such a small port volume (not sure of the cross section at the pinch, etc.) you've got the Holy Grail there on your hands! They will FLY off the shelves once word is out, no doubt.

 

Lol... no harm intended. I'm sure you know how many hours I spent on and off the flowbench to get those numbers.... thus I tend to wonder when I see manufacturer's claims. I don't have much good solid AFR info firsthand but have seen MANY Dart small block heads including the Pro 1's that are FAR from the advertised numbers. That was what led me to find a port size and shape that I could work with myself to get what I wanted. I think I got those Canfields back in about 94 or so when they first came out. I am blessed to have R&J Performance (the place that did Koeffel's dirty work and really made the B-1 Mopar heads) in my backyard, so to speak. "Radar" is one of the best cylinder head guys there is IMO. They've done heads for many racers.... Force, Bernstein, Hoover, the late John Hagen (held the Pro Stock MPH record with Radar's Hemi heads), Walker Evans, and the list goes on and on. If you are able to post/email flow numbers and port views I'd appreciate it. Not sure if many others totally understand, but if you can get 300 @ .600" with such a small port volume (not sure of the cross section at the pinch, etc.) you've got the Holy Grail there on your hands! They will FLY off the shelves once word is out, no doubt.

Does Steve Ottilie still run a drag car at Cedar Falls?

 

Yes he does. Take a peek at the photos page on my site. He just won Super Rod (the IHRA equivalent to NHRA's 9.90 Super Gas) class at the IHRA Division 5 ProAm event this past Saturday here at Cedar Falls. He had one of my 1.80 Glides in his car. His racing partner Al Miller drove Ott's 'old' Brogie car to a semi-final finish, running another of my transmissions. I had one more of the semi-finalists too. Not bad, lol, I had 3 of the final 4 9.90 racers! Ott's new ride is a Cameron Race Cars roadster (Vette). He also has a Beretta that he and another friend will race in Top Sportsman with an Olds-headed BBC and another of my 1.80 Glides. The dragster I own was first owned by Ottilie and me, and I bought him out after a few years. He's been a longtime friend.

 

Yes he does. Take a peek at the photos page on my site. He just won Super Rod (the IHRA equivalent to NHRA's 9.90 Super Gas) class at the IHRA Division 5 ProAm event this past Saturday here at Cedar Falls. He had one of my 1.80 Glides in his car. His racing partner Al Miller drove Ott's 'old' Brogie car to a semi-final finish, running another of my transmissions. I had one more of the semi-finalists too. Not bad, lol, I had 3 of the final 4 9.90 racers! Ott's new ride is a Cameron Race Cars roadster (Vette). He also has a Beretta that he and another friend will race in Top Sportsman with an Olds-headed BBC and another of my 1.80 Glides. The dragster I own was first owned by Ottilie and me, and I bought him out after a few years. He's been a longtime friend.

I can remember watching the dragster run back in the middle 80's or late 80's.

 

The car you are thinking of may have been his first dragster, the Don Ness car. Steve did not like driving it, and had two or three guys drive for him. I had known him for a while, and we kicked around the idea of putting my driveline into his car right after I won the NHRA Div 5 Super Street title (10.90 class) in 90. My race partner was going through a divorce, so I figured it was time to make a move before his wife went after the car which he owned. The driveline/fuel/ignition system was mine. We looked at Ott's old Ness car, and it needed a lot of updates to be legal. So we decided on getting a new car. We bought it during the winter of 1990-91, and I ran Super Comp with it most of the 91 season. I skipped the last few races in Super Comp trim and ran in Comp Eliminator as an A/Dragster, keeping the Glide in the car. Also ran some IHRA Top Dragster, NHRA Div 3 Super Quick, and lots of brackets too. Car last went down the track early in 96, and has sat since then. I'm building a new motor now as well as another trans, and will then have 2 decent small blocks. I need to update the chassis, which is in the plans for next winter. I am shooting to be back out on a very limited basis in 07 if things go as planned. But... I'd really rather sell the car and find a 23T or 32 Bantam, something like an old Comp Eliminator car that is very light and set up for a small block. Who knows.... there is a photo of the dragster too on the same photos page of my site, I believe taken in Dallas in 91 when it was running as an A/D.

 

The car you are thinking of may have been his first dragster, the Don Ness car. Steve did not like driving it, and had two or three guys drive for him. I had known him for a while, and we kicked around the idea of putting my driveline into his car right after I won the NHRA Div 5 Super Street title (10.90 class) in 90. My race partner was going through a divorce, so I figured it was time to make a move before his wife went after the car which he owned. The driveline/fuel/ignition system was mine. We looked at Ott's old Ness car, and it needed a lot of updates to be legal. So we decided on getting a new car. We bought it during the winter of 1990-91, and I ran Super Comp with it most of the 91 season. I skipped the last few races in Super Comp trim and ran in Comp Eliminator as an A/Dragster, keeping the Glide in the car. Also ran some IHRA Top Dragster, NHRA Div 3 Super Quick, and lots of brackets too. Car last went down the track early in 96, and has sat since then. I'm building a new motor now as well as another trans, and will then have 2 decent small blocks. I need to update the chassis, which is in the plans for next winter. I am shooting to be back out on a very limited basis in 07 if things go as planned. But... I'd really rather sell the car and find a 23T or 32 Bantam, something like an old Comp Eliminator car that is very light and set up for a small block. Who knows.... there is a photo of the dragster too on the same photos page of my site, I believe taken in Dallas in 91 when it was running as an A/D.

I must be getting old.L.O.L.I thought you ran the car back in the 80's.I looked at your web site and I only recognize two names.Jok and "Big" Dan Richardson.Now I know I am old.What ever happened to a blown rail called the "Cannon Ball Express that use to run at Cedar Falls?Who was the guy from Traer that went to work for Brodix.I think he use to work for Radar. also remember when R&J was in Dysart instead of Cedar Falls.Yes,I really am getting old.

 

Dave Rotter from Blairstown went to Brodix from R&J. Radar does not drive the alky dragster for Curt from Rochester, MN (Cannonball Express...) but he does drive Dale Suhr's nostalgia front motor Top Fuel car, and won the Hot Rod Reunion at Bowling Green a couple years ago. Trying to figure out who you are, lol? You can't be THAT old!!! I just turned 46 on Saturday...

 

Dave Rotter from Blairstown went to Brodix from R&J. Radar does not drive the alky dragster for Curt from Rochester, MN (Cannonball Express...) but he does drive Dale Suhr's nostalgia front motor Top Fuel car, and won the Hot Rod Reunion at Bowling Green a couple years ago. Trying to figure out who you are, lol? You can't be THAT old!!! I just turned 46 on Saturday...

I am 39 but I feel more like 79.Is your shop still right on the corner?

 

??? My folks used to have the Amoco on Hudson Rd and 1st St in Cedar Falls, yep. They sold it in 95, and I built trannies for a year or so before being lured back to a dealership. Did that for quite a while, then got smart and got out from under the hood. Worked as a service writer at Rydell Chev/Mitsu for a year or so, then have been service administrator at Fogdall RV now for over 6 yrs. Lost dad to complications of diabetes not quite a year ago... kind of sucked. Anyhow... I need to get back out to the shop, I have a TH400 in a pile of parts and the owner will be by to get it in a couple hours! See ya!!!

 

??? My folks used to have the Amoco on Hudson Rd and 1st St in Cedar Falls, yep. They sold it in 95, and I built trannies for a year or so before being lured back to a dealership. Did that for quite a while, then got smart and got out from under the hood. Worked as a service writer at Rydell Chev/Mitsu for a year or so, then have been service administrator at Fogdall RV now for over 6 yrs. Lost dad to complications of diabetes not quite a year ago... kind of sucked. Anyhow... I need to get back out to the shop, I have a TH400 in a pile of parts and the owner will be by to get it in a couple hours! See ya!!!

I am sorry to hear about your dad.I guess R&J is just about in your back-yard.How old is Radar anyway?The last time I talked to him was about 10 yrs. ago when Gary Ostrich re-tired.

 

I am of course referring to the "competition" ported version which is more money than the street stuff (about 2K or so for the pair).
Thanks,
Tony M.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

What's a ballpark figure for a pair of the street version,Tony?
What kinda flow numbers at .500 & .600 lift?
I'm interested in a set of good heads for a 385" sbc street motor.

 

What's a ballpark figure for a pair of the street version,Tony?
What kinda flow numbers at .500 & .600 lift?
I'm interested in a set of good heads for a 385" sbc street motor.

Our street package 195's will also be impressive. They will flow more than our previous "Comp" package with better low and midlift numbers (more important than the peak gains in my book).

They will sell for $1400-$1450

Preliminary data shows the following flow curve for both 195 products...

INT.....Street.....Comp

.200.....137........140
.300.....194........202
.400.....240........248
.500.....270........280
.550.....280........292
.600.....286........300

EXH.....Street.....Comp

.200.....110........115
.300.....158........165
.400.....190........200
.500.....207........217
.600.....215........225

All numbers tested on an SF600 with a 4.060 Bore. Exhaust #'s thru a 1.75" flowtube to simulate a header attached to the exhaust port.

Also guys I must throw in a small "disclaimer" for lack of a better word stating that these numbers are subject to minor revisions prior to actually shipping production parts, however these #'s should be either right on or extremely close. The key for us is trying to advertise what MOST parts leaving our door will flow....not the "best" ones that might come off a machine with brand new cutting tools etc....that is why the possibility exists that you may see a minor revision to the numbers in the future (in our catalog and website) if we feel it better represents a "production" part. We guarantee all of our flow numbers are within 3% of what we advertise, and we try to advertise what an average production part will flow....some of the the stuff leaving our door can flow a little more and some a little less, but the numbers we advertise should be extremely close to what you are receiving. Wolfplace (Mike Lewis) and other shops have seen time and time again that we ususally deliver on what we promise regarding flow data.

Hope this info gives you guys a little better feel of what lies ahead...

Thanks,
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109

 

Thanks Tony! I wholeheartedly believe you will have a real winner there, no doubt. VERY impressive numbers from that size of a port. I especially like the mid-lift numbers, those are huge! I'll be curious to see the port shape and cross sectional information. Hmm... maybe you need to find someone to test them... like on a nice little 331" where a small port volume/big flow numbers setup would work nicely... lol. I am hoping to head to the dyno late in the summer with my motor.

350 4-bolt filled w/Hardblock to the pump holes
ARP main/head studs
Chevy 3.25" LJ steel crank reworked/Nitrided
Manley 6" aluminum rods
Arias 14:1 pistons/light pins
Stef's aluminum Comp Eliminator pan, starter on LH side
Weaver Bros single stage external wet sump pump
Canfield 215cc home-ported heads, 2.10"/1.60" ti valves
Isky 9945 Tool Room springs
Manley ti retainers, etc
Jesel Comp series shaft 1.6/1.5
Crower cutaway .180" intake offset lifters
Comp CS312AR-7 roller
Comp belt drive
Jesel belt drive distributor
ATI damper
MSD trigger
Moroso 4-vane vacuum pump and drive mandrel
Craig Schuck vacuum pump mount plate
Meizere water pump
Pro Products Hurricane 4-bbl intake, home-ported
BG 750 Race Demon gas carb
1" open spacer w/1" 4-hole spacer above it (or #1 Stop)
Delphi/Packard plug wires
sheet metal valve covers
Hooker/Schoenfeld header combo

Looking for at least 650hp, and will use a 7" converter behind it in my dragster that went low 8.30's in horrible midwest summer air with a 580hp 341". Hoping to see some low 8.20's in bracket race trim, and stop it to go 8.90 racing a little here and there again..

ps N2O..... the wife and I along with our little squirt went out to dinner tonight with Steve and his wife.... still wondering who in the world you are? Almost forgot that Ostrich was there last weekend at the IHRA race too, and I talked to him. Ott told me he is in CR/Marion now. Still happy to see Gary up and well after the scary deal he had!!!