Weak oil pump? Blocked oil passages in the block? Is the oil pump pickup correct for the pan you're using?

 

I'm gettin all of 50 at idle . Pump has very little time on it .
I wouldn't think passages are blocked .
Motor literally has less than an hour run time and block was done but motor sat for 8 years.
Reason it sat for 8 years is for the same reason . Makin noise and couldn't get oil to the top.after block was done and new cam and heads done . I just had too much goin on to keep at it . Picked up on it again recently.
Pulled cam and found cam had no groove.
Got cam grooved , cleaned up lifter bores, got new lifters and here I am .
Cam doesn't look wiped and it runs too good for that id say.
I'll check on the pan and pick up .
Could that be wrong and still have 50 at idle?

 

Original distributor? If so the oil journal has to be clocked to the correct position. The oil passage is not a full 360* like later ones.

 

Nah it's a newer HEI

 

The rear cam bearing should be grooved.

 

Think I read he had 3 oil holes all lined up for the bearing, still need groove in bearing?

 

Push rods with too much assembly lube in them from lifters?????

And


’65-’66 Big-Block Lifter Gallery Oiling: In order to feed pressurized oil to the galleries that feed the lifters, the ’65-’66 big-blocks used a combination of a groove in the rear cam journal and a rear cam bearing with a matching groove on its inside diameter. Oil entered the bearing through a hole at the bottom, traveled around the journal through the groove in the bearing and the journal, and exited the bearing through two holes at the top that aligned with two holes in the block; those two holes fed the oil galleries on each side that fed the lifters. Both the cam journal and the cam bearing MUST have the groove in order to provide adequate oil flow to the lifters, and the bearing must have the two exit holes at the top.

 

I ran wire through every pushrod last night .
They seemed free .
Yeah I'm hopin I don't see a groove in that rear bearing when I go back over to the garage. Did they even make a bearimg with 3 holes and no groove ?? I'm hopin so lol

 

FWIW...the rear journal of the camshaft may also have been grooved, or were the 66 and later cams rear journals grooved with non-grooved cam bearings...It's been a long time since I put a L78 cam in an early block.

 

Yep you're memory is serving you lol
Rear journal in bump stick has groove .

 

Bingo !
Or bingo I hope. I gotta get over there and look again but I'm not picturing a groove in it . . This is supposed to be the one from what I dug up .

SH615S
CLEVITE bearimg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cle-sh615s?cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-brands-_-keyword&gclid=CjwKCAjw79iaBhAJEiwAPYwoCPWj7lzZ-X51hB9FZAYFAHoDFZszcJNlLt1ItM-ZNwWMAKJjT2DudhoCyIQQAvD_BwE

 

GM trashed this whole program really quick .
Lived about a year abd and a half and out the door with that idea .
Fords slogan back in the day was correct on this one note anyway lol
"Fords got a better idea " haha

 

I broke King Pins, Ford Didn't have a better idea on that, well I was bouncing the front end off the ground

 

Seems like if all 3 holes are lined up the oil would pass from the bottom hole through the groove in the cam to the upper 2 holes correct? maybe the holes aren't lined up perfectly?

 

Yeah man. Absolutely. Check check .
That bearings in there right.
You'd think the 3 holes would do it .
Round 3 with a 65 big block.
Feels like I'm tryin to fight Mike tyson in a phone booth lol
I'm seein guys adamant about having the groove in the bearing among with the groove in the camshaft.
I'll know soon

 

I got the groove in my '65 block. No problems in 20 years. Wonder what's up... Think they only made about 1900 of them in the B bodies.

 

Had engines where the oil barely dribbled out at idle it was fine.
Cant be bone dry or youd have eaten something up by now?
Id say if you got oil running back to the return hole youve covered all bases, drive it.

 

Had engines where the oil barely dribbled out at idle it was fine.
Cant be bone dry or youd have eaten something up by now?
Id say if you got oil running back to the return hole youve covered all bases, drive it.

Nah it ain't bone dry but a hydraulic flat tapoet shouldn't sound like that. No way.
Somthin ain't right

 

Rear bearing does have groove. Verified .
And the holes couldn't be lined up any better.
Push rods clear. 50 oil pressure at idle.
Cam looks alright.
Lifters look alright.
New milidon pan .
Runs strong but sounds like a solid lift and nowhere near enough oil to the top

 

Called isky . Guy was puzzled.
Said Ron Iskenderian would be the guy to talk to . He'll be back in next Monday. He's probably delt with a few big blocks

 

Some but nowhere near enough oil getting to the top of a 65 396 Block .
Has groove in camshaft as it should.
Hyd flat tappet cam. Isky 270 mega but that fact shouldn't matter. Has correct bearings installed (one in the back with 3 holes and perfectly aligned with holes in block .)
Hydraulic cam and lifters singing like a sewing machine. Ran it with valve covers off and very little oil is comin up. Tried different preloads on lifters ..
Pulled motor and tore it halfway down figurin it had to be either incorrect bearings In there or improperly installed bearings . Surprise surprise! Nope lol
Lifters are new and as crazy as it sounds I don't even remember what kind they are because I've allways got so much goin on but I do know I don't go cheap.
I figure maybe somebody on here seen somthin similar before.

Does that Isky cam have a groove in the rear journal? if not you will get no oil to the top of a '65-66 block. The reason you need a grooved cam is it's the opposite of the newer blocks as 67 and newer have the groove behind the bearing, while 65-66 just have 3 holes.

 

Yes it does .
And right .
And some 66's don't.

 

I've relied on Grumpy's knowledge for years. Here's a thread for information.

1965-66 396 engines

I have a 1966 396. Rebuild ongoing and time to select a cam. I know the '65 and '66 have the groove in the rear journal. The machine shop cut a groove on the outside of my rear bearing (like a '67 396) when they installed the new ones. When shopping, most cams start at 1967 (I assume because of...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

 

Yep and all those conditions exist.
Groove in back cam journal.
Cam bearing in back with 3 holes and groove with holes aligned perfectly with the holes in the block.
Still not enough oil up top .
Not enough to where it's clattering like a solid lift when running .
What making the noise ? The lifters are all preloaded

 

GM man you wrote you had the cam Grooved, any chance grove doesn't line up with the 3 oil passages? Or not 100% lined up or what this diagram explaines? PS thats from Levons post

 

I hope that's what it is but if it is then the guy who cut the groove didn't follow this.
This is what came with the cam and this is what I handed him.
I'll measure it to verify though.

 

Are you positive someone did not install some type of oil restricters in the block?. Also do the oil gally plugs behind the timing gear have small holes drilled in them? Later big blocks had these holes to prevent air trapped in the passages.

 

No I'm not positive but the guy who did the block had been at it 40 years . Now that isn't to say that a mistake wouldn't be made in year one or year 50 but not as likely on year 50 lol
How would I verify that?. I'm not even sure this Les guy is still even around. The block was done 12 years ago so I'm not sure about being able to reach him . But aside from that how can I check ?
Here is a photo of the front of the block

 

If it's a higher mileage block...or it was just beat its whole life I'd be willing bet its worn lifter bores...oil is leaking past the lifters before it makes its way up the pushrods.

 

Would he still have 50 psi at idle?

 

Are we sure the lash has not been turned down too far?

 

Tried half turn like I've done 80 times and never had a problem. Tried quarter turn .
Tried 3 quarter turn .
When I started going over 3/4 then the motor was turning over hard

 

I had a Reman engine in a work van that within 2K miles would drop to 0 oil psi at a red light but it needed cam bearings, Reman said they checked out to spec but still sent another engine that still cost me another $1K for labor & misc parts

 

Rocker arms hitting the valve covers.

 

Yeah right lol.
Makes the same noise with the covers off

 

Who set up heads and measured for push rod length?
This might sound dumb but look at the spring retainers making sure someone did not use 10* retainers with 7* keepers.
I would look at the bottom of a few rockers to make sure they are not hitting the stud or retainer.
Are the pushrods one or 2 piece?
How did you adjust lifter preload?

 

A machine shop set up the heads .
The stock pushrods are/were being used.
I've used foxwells method for obtaining optimal valve train geometry by means of a series of steps that determine proper or optimal pushrod length . I have not done that on this motor though .
I can check that tonight . I will say this about that though . I've seen it where as much as a .3 difference in pushrod length was needed to put the geometry correct but the motor ran fine and didn't clatter prior .
I'll check the retainers and keepers.
..I set the preload.
EOIC in the firing order . Not that the firing order matters but its easier when I'm doing it alone and bumping the key

 

Is it time to pull intake and measure lifter bores? But then what bush the bores or find another block?

 

The top of the motor is already apart.

 

I've got a machinist/builder telling me I may have to edge-orifice the lifters. What's anyone think about that?

 

I've got a machinist/builder telling me I may have to edge-orifice the lifters. What's anyone think about that?

Edge orifice lifters will restrict oil flow up to the rockers & springs. They meter oil flow to the top end based on the lifter to bore clearance

I'm not sure what the allowed tolerances would be..I'm sure it should only be a few thousandths larger then the lifters themselves....I could see the oil leaking past the lifters on my old motor when it was running by looking through the small openings in the heads by the pushrod slots..

Actually, less than two thousandths and optimally 0.0012" minimum per Mike Lewis (aka wolfplace).

 

The bores are supposed to be .842
Not one of them is more than that

 

And you know this based on measuring them with a dial bore gage, yes? Here are my Dart Aluminum BBC 31264644 block/Isky 3975HYRT lifter measurements - Both new.

 

Back to the rear cam bearing holes or groove not lining up with the cam is the only other thing it could be then correct? But like 68 said about cam and bearing both having the groove and should only be 1 or the other? Are you sure the lifters are good?

 

The rear bearing has the 3 holes and the groove and the holes are aligned with the holes in the block.
They lifters look good man.
Every one of em .