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GRN69CHV

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Looks like most bugs are ironed out. Hoping to not only make it to the track Saturday but also maybe make a couple tuning changes between runs (this is a test & tune day). In short combo is 454.070, Dart Pro 1 alum hds, Air Gap, 850VS, 233/236, .600/.610 hyd roller, 112LSA, 10/1 CR, 2500 stall, 3.73 gears, 275-60/15 DR's. 1.75x3" headers into 3" X-pipe full exhaust.

Base settings are 22* intial, 36* total w/ 10* vac adv can for 46* total w/ vac adv.. Prior motor was 10.4/1 w/ same cam and never detonated even with prior 16* vac adv can. Ironic, this motor detonates w/ only 10* vac advance. So, guessing this motor is just a lot more efficient. {FYI, heads were cut when I got them, originally intended for Shafiroff crate motor, new in boxes. Advertised and marked as 114CC. I did not CC them. Am assuming these are 114CC. I know they were cut, but now not totally sure how far. hindsight, I should have CC'd them}. FYI, I have not done cylinder pressure tests. May do one cyl on each bank just for baseline. Carb is box stock 850VS, 78/82 jetting, 4.5/3.5PV. I did have to install 1/2" open spacer on the AirGap to get the fast idle screw to clear the intake, but will probably remove it and cut the screw Other than the mild knock at high vac, I don't have any driveability issues.

Will make first run as is with air cleaner intact for baseline. Only intended change from weekend cruiser will be the DR's. Thought I would play with timing first. Maybe disconnect the vac advance and push timing to 38* total. I kind of doubt I would see any benefit of anything over 38* with alum head open chamber motor and .210 dome piston. I know the old closed chamber iron head motors liked as much as 40* timing, but doubt that much timing is needed for this setup, especially considering this motor's propensity to knock at only 46* total on 92-93 pump gas.

Any sugestions?
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Same cam - 283/287 seat, 233/236 @ .050, .600/.610, 112LSA / 108ICL (degreed to 107ICL on this build). Yes, only get knock with vac advance. Have verified timing to 36* total mechanical and 46* total w/ vac advance.

Note: I am running two med springs in HEI and limited mech advance a few degrees by changing back to a stock type wt. Total timing is in by 2500 (or below) right in line with the converter.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Update. Looks like this motor will not run on any less than 92-93 octane and no more than 36* (maybe 38* total timing) without knocking. Disconnected the vac advance completely, motor seems to love it. I find that at cruise it is a lot more steady. One thing I had noticed prior was a high variation in throttle to throttle response depending on RPM and load - which I can only figure is the vac advance coming in/out (ported vac). Without it, it's more of a linear input. So for now, looks like I just run straight mech advance and not worry about it.
 
With motors just like yours i have had great sucess using Kemcos real lead octane booster.

Mix 1qt kemco with 18 gals 93 for 97.5 octane.

cost aprox 50cent per gal to treat the 93 fuel for 97.5 octane when bought with 2 case /12 qts per case discount inc free shipping.

You can share a case with a buddy if you cant use 24 qts before it goes past its 18 month shelf life.

I would bet running the 1 qt kemco per 18gals 93 fuel for 97.5 octane would allow you to run the full 20 base and 36-38 total timing inc your vac adv for best power with full total 36-38 and then the vac adv for best fuel economy on the street.

Give it a try,its been a very usefull tool in having your cake and eating it too when it comes to limted use wk cruisers /mild strip motors.

Chk out the kemco Lead Supreme 130 website for details.

Scott
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the info. Just walked in the door, drove the car to work today to give it a good run along with a fresh tank of 93 octane gas. Reset the timing to 38* total and adjusted the idle. Motor is running surprisingly smooth. So, will see. Will look into the additive.

FYI, my base timing is upwards of 24* now - can't really tell as the timing mark on the balancer is easy 1/2" off the timing tab at idle (note - I did degree the balancer when I built the motor).
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Yes, this motor is a lot stronger. 10 more CI, same cam, a lot better heads, but 500 RPM less converter (2500 now vs 3000, both 10" units). However, I did add the X-pipe into the sytem which I can tell just by throttle response and driveability added a bunch of midrange and top end. Also, keep in mind, I stepped up to a better lifter and pushrods in the process as well as stepped up the valve springs.

One last thing, the HEI received a recurve and now comes in faster.

Your guess is as good as mine. 11.50's, 11.40's, 11.30's??
 
I had a similar problem with vacuum advance just under light throttle cruising around town you could hear it detonate. I just left the vacuum hose off, and really didn't notice a difference in performance or cruising etc. Best of all that engine had hyper pistons any detonation could of been melt done. Hope they tell you that you need a bar. Is Vince going? Are you going to try a double pumper?

Dave
 
I had a similar problem with vacuum advance just under light throttle cruising around town you could hear it detonate. I just left the vacuum hose off, and really didn't notice a difference in performance or cruising etc. Best of all that engine had hyper pistons any detonation could of been melt done. Hope they tell you that you need a bar. Is Vince going? Are you going to try a double pumper?

Dave
Dave I tried to get him to try a DP, he just wants nothing to do with it.:(

Too bad, he doesnt know what he's missing!
 
If we could get out at the same time, sure!
 
Yes, this motor is a lot stronger. 10 more CI, same cam, a lot better heads, but 500 RPM less converter (2500 now vs 3000, both 10" units). However, I did add the X-pipe into the sytem which I can tell just by throttle response and driveability added a bunch of midrange and top end. Also, keep in mind, I stepped up to a better lifter and pushrods in the process as well as stepped up the valve springs.

One last thing, the HEI received a recurve and now comes in faster.

Your guess is as good as mine. 11.50's, 11.40's, 11.30's??
I predict 11.30's with his as-is combo/carb. 11.20 or better when my 950HP gets bolted on :D
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Yes Ray, 11.67 was in late Nov, temp was in mid 40's. Air was good, but bite was limited. What will be intersting is the 60' time now. Car has "stock" suspension. Rear has Hotchkiss lowers with stock uppers, factory sway bar and KYB shocks, coils of unknown spec (but I like the ride ht and whatever they are, the rear is firm but not jarring). Car does not wheelhop at all, but with the 3000 stall converter I was getting some wheelspin on DR's. Front suspension is stock GM A-body with QA1 CO's. I will adjust these to setting #1 or #2. I don't expect to 60' much better than a 1.70 - 1.75 though with the tighter converter. Kinda figured the midrange and top end pull is so much better now. Plan is to get the car moving on the stock suspension, then let the motor carry it home. See what happens. Have to keep it in sight, this is a 3800# air conditioned car.
 
Even a 1.70 isn't bad for a 3800 lbs luxury car:D My friend goes 11.70's with his camaro and has a best 60 at 1.58, but is usually around 1.60-61. But to compare it to yours, his has 4.56's a 4400 converter, trans brake and is on 9X28 slicks.
 
Joe, you going to the Grove tomorrow?
Rick told me that a few Chevelle guys are going. I want to go, but unfortunately have prior plans. :(:(
We have to get together some time later this year at the dragstrip like we did last fall. Mark you calendars and set a date and let's line 'em up. Make sure Vince comes with his box of 25 carbs also. :)
 
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