[hoffbug]

Note to self...
"Self.. buy ARP stuff to replace any NON-ARP stuff."

This happened cruising down the highway yesterday... Do you think I need to check the roller lifters? or can I just replace the rockers studs and run it one more time before the tracks close in November. Someone needs to have a talk with TONY MAMO about this stuff they are installing with these heads. I bet it has a nice price point but from what In reading on other boards/threads they sure arent very durable.

 

[Oldani Motorsports]

It's a common deal that when you buy assembled heads at a good price you know somehow they were able to hold pricing down. Usually it's less-than-stellar valves/springs/hardware. If a person has to spend a couple hundred bucks more it's usually well worth it when you consider the possibilities of valvetrain failure. Hopefully your stuff is not hurt any.

 

[wildman926]

Someone needs to have a talk with TONY MAMO about this stuff they are installing with these heads. I bet it has a nice price point but from what In reading on other boards/threads they sure arent very durable.

Do you have any links to these posts? I would like to read them for references. I have the 180cc SH on my 350, and only 1500 miles on them. Thanks.

 

[hoffbug]

It's a common deal that when you buy assembled heads at a good price you know somehow they were able to hold pricing down. Usually it's less-than-stellar valves/springs/hardware.

The valves are by REV..The springs are the same ones comp sells....

The rocker studs and guideplates are???? Not ARP
To be fair I am running pretty high sprring pressures with a 3/8" stud.. Although I thought ID be OK with the stud girdle.. Maybe its time to step up to 7/16" studs, rockers, adjusters, and girdle?

 

[Wolfplace]

The valves are by REV..The springs are the same ones comp sells....

The rocker studs and guideplates are???? Not ARP
To be fair I am running pretty high sprring pressures with a 3/8" stud.. Although I thought ID be OK with the stud girdle.. Maybe its time to step up to 7/16" studs, rockers, adjusters, and girdle?

=
Hi Tony,
Couple of things here,,
First, the stock AFR 3/8" stud, spring & retainer package is designed for a flat tappet hyd or small solid lifter flat tappet not a roller

Second, you are not supposed to run the Comp Pro Magnum rocker with the standard stud as it sits too high.
The recommended stud for these rockers is the ARP 134-7104, the longer ones.

Third, you should never be running a solid roller with 3/8" studs of any kind.
I personally would not want to run an aggressive hyd roller with 3/8" studs

The long 3/8" ARP stud & the 7/16" stud upgrade is a about $20 when you order the heads.
Don't blame the head if you use the wrong parts

When all else fails, follow the instructions,,,
Here they are for all to read:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/sbc_install.php

Instead of going to all new stud stuff how about going to a shaft system?
It doesn't cost that much more & once you use it you will throw rocks at anything else,,
email me if you are interested,,,,

 

[Tom Mobley]

are those genuine CC posi-locks? look at the top of the trunnion of the rocker, see that recess around the stud hole? the rocker nuts need to be a match to that. IOW, CC made the rockers so you can't use anybody elses standard hardware. Well, I guess you could if you turned down the bottom .100 or however much it is to fit in that recess. Just another "feature" of CC engineering. At this point I'd rather use just about anything else.

 

[hoffbug]

I guess I am lucky that it held up this long.. ( 6 years)..

I swear that those AFR footnotes were a wee bit smaller 6 years ago

 

[hoffbug]

are those genuine CC posi-locks? look at the top of the trunnion of the rocker, see that recess around the stud hole? the rocker nuts need to be a match to that. IOW, CC made the rockers so you can't use anybody elses standard hardware. Well, I guess you could if you turned down the bottom .100 or however much it is to fit in that recess. Just another "feature" of CC engineering. At this point I'd rather use just about anything else.

Hi Tom
The polylocks came from AFR... Im not shure who the manufacturer was.
They do fit into the recess on the rocker trunion. you can see the bottom of one in the picture above.
I guess I got something right :clonk:

 

[10secBu]

Before you replace everything to upgrade to 7/16" studs, I'd sell your top end parts and put a set of the Jesel Sportsman shaft rockers on. Much better setup and won't be too hateful proce wise with being able to sell off your top end stuff to help recoupe some of the expense.

 

[Oldani Motorsports]

I'd agree with that. You don't spend much more to move to the Sportsman series. I'm a dealer for Jesel, and have used their stuff for years. Never been unhappy. Once you go shaft rockers you'll wonder why you ever used anything else!

 

[hoffbug]

Ive got the longer ARP studs on the way to fix for now.... I guess Ill have over the long Minnesota winter to think about the rocker systems... This is when I usually brew up how Im gonna spend my tax return

 

[70L34]

Wow Tony...I may replace the studs on the 210s in the 406, too...ugly stuff there.

 

[hoffbug]

Here is a photo of the recommended ARP stud ( center) and the stock studs as installed by AFR (ends, with the failed one on the left). The center stud has a few more threads....

 

[Tom Mobley]

that broken off piece, is that all the thread engagement you had? That's not very much. Are the pushrods and valves long or something? That really doesn't look right. That new stud doesn't look to be enough longer to make anything.

it might have popped because of the tension applied by the setscrew. hard to see how that happened with a stud girdle in place.

can you look at it with a good light and magnifying glass? I wonder if the thread rolling machine was having issues, and cut the threads too deep or left a sharp V at the bottom.

 

[Tom Mobley]

look at the radius where the stud meets the nut on that ARP. That's good stuff.

 

[fowl69]

did you say it held up for 6 years ,thats not bad for somthing with a solid roller in it .

 

[GOSFAST]

If you look closely at the 3 studs pictured, you can see the trunnion riding on the threaded portion of the right and left stud. The stud in the center will allow the rocker pivot to be correctly positioned on the stud for better support. The bottom portion (the nuts) of the ARP's are slimmer allowing better clearance at the lower area of some of the massive sized (aluminum) rocker bodies.

The adjusters themselves don't have enough threads available to keep everything more ridgid on top with the shorter studs.

Less expensive studs tend to be slightly thinner on the threaded portion than the ARP's also. The ARP's "roll" the threads thereby maintaining the same diameter on the threaded portion as the shank for the most part. It's also for this reason ARP recommends NOT using the stock style (locking) rocker nuts on any of their studs. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The poor (shorter) fit allows too much back and forth movement on the trunnions. We've had complaints with some less expensive studs/rockers actually sounding much like noisy lifters. This type of sound would be more pronounced with the "rocking" motion of the wrong length studs.

 

[Sick_66]

Before you replace everything to upgrade to 7/16" studs, I'd sell your top end parts and put a set of the Jesel Sportsman shaft rockers on. Much better setup and won't be too hateful proce wise with being able to sell off your top end stuff to help recoupe some of the expense.

THAT is the only way to go. I broke a rocker stud back in May and the cost to upgrade to Jesel Sportsman was minimal compared to dealing with again. Oh, and they line up PERFECT.

 

[hoffbug]

Thanks for all of the responses and input... I posted the last pic mainly as informational...

 

[kirkwoodken]

Some one makes a longer bottom threaded stud for BBC aluminum head exhaust valve, maybe Comp Cams, that you may be interested in. If you have some more room to screw the studs into than you are using, ie; deeper holes, you may want to look at them. They will add some stiffness to that part of the head. They will need to be cut shorter, but make a more dependable looking arrangement.

I know that those threads are heli-coiled, and you only need 1 1/2 the length of the root diameter of the threads to have a strong bolt seat, but I feel that the threads on the bottom of the bolts you are using are too short. I would like to see more thread engagement in alum heads. Yeah! I know that's not what broke. Also, the ARP may require a counterbore or chamfer to clear the better radius on the bottom thread.

I don't like those short threads without a stud girdle, either.