[GRN69CHV]

OK, you guys are going to love this. Held off posting this catastrophe, but can now talk about it. Anyone following my posts from last fall, we got out to the track and had a blast - to the point of making some great runs - and necessary engine removal and fix (won't go back through all that). At any rate, I build a fresh .070 motor updated with Dart Pro One heads and sell off everything else in the garage that wasn't nailed down {ZZ502 heads, cams, two nice bare blocks, one at .030 and a new tall deck, intakes, etc.}. I even had the tranny redone/upgraded while it was apart.

We install the the fresh .070 motor. Fire it up, and within 3-4 minutes I have foam pouring from the the intake end seals - great, water leak, figure head gasket or intake leak. Shut it down, drain the pan, get 3 gallons of milk sludge - oil and water. Pull the intake, try another intake gasket, same thing. Try a pressure test on the cooling system, nothing, not even 1#. Pull the motor, tear it down, go over everything, now stumped, we can't find anything wrong. The block was mag'd, so at this point, I am sure it is not cracked. Keep in mind the install, fire up, removal and tear down has all occured within 24 hours. Finally, we find a hidden crack (actually a hole the size of the tip of your pinky) tucked way up under the lifter valley at the top of the water jacket right in front of the #2 cam bearing that was not visible except with a mirror and even then very hard to identify. So, the fresh .070 block is now scrap, the crank is scored, everything is soaked with a mayonaise mix and I am ready to haul the car and everything in the garage down the road and leave it for the trash man!

So, thanks to Carl (CNC), I now have a detailed .070 block on the way, but am rethinking this racing crap. Seriously thinking about keeping everything the same (.070, Dart Heads, Air Gap, etc) but dropping in a lot smaller cam, bring the peak HP down to about 5000- 5200 or so, droping to some 3.08 gears and maybe a 2200 converter and just making this a mid-high 12 sec. air conditioned cruiser. Anyone else get the feeling, it's just not worth the agg anymore?

 

[JIM]

I know exactly how you feel. I always bounce back and forth between brute force power and casual cruiser. Can't make up my mind. It would be real easy for me though. Car is very stock appearing, has a stick shift (no convertor swap) and has OD. It would only need a cam change to turn if from 11-sec car to a high 12 second go anywhere cruiser.
In your case though, that crack could have hapenend in a stock rebuild also. Had nothing to do with the performance level you are trying to achieve. It's not like you threw a rod at 7000 RPM. As anyone else that has been through this will probably tell you,.......take a deep breath, take a break from it and it will all be better. I don't know if you remember my post on the initial fire up of the new motor. I had antifreeze pouring out of the pass side header! Not what you want to see. Turned out to be a valve guide. Not a big deal, but having to pull the head back off just after I put it all together sucked! Today that is old news and just about forgotten.

 

[69-CHVL]

Is it possible that you dont just wanna line-up againt my car?

 

[mr 4 speed]

Other than swapping on Jim's old heads it has been pretty tough fighting back the urge to do any major changes with my car. Been running the same combo for 7 years now other than an intake and exhaust swap. I flip flop back and forth between brute power and casual cruiser myself...but I am happy with my car and what it runs.Seems to be a compromise between the two. Its dead nuts reliable and doesn't give me any crap.
Joe,sorry to hear of that..thats the kinda stuff that makes the hobby frustrating,but you obviously got it all under control:thumbsup:

 

[GRN69CHV]

Not sure I want to line up against any car.

 

[69-CHVL]

Remember Joe, when I first brought my car home, in less that 10 miles the "new" 396 started knocking - wiped cam. Had the 396 rebuild to mild, just a 280H cam/9.5 compression - spun rod bearing in 160 miles. Bought a "mild" 454HO crate motor cause I got sick of all the issue of "used" stuff - burnt oil bad, needed hone and re-ring. Took the 454HO back apart b/c I'm messed-up in the head and want "more".

Point is, as suggested, you can be screwed with this stuff even doing stock rebuilds.

I think (everybody dont jump on me) once you go solid (roller especially) you crosss the line. Lash checks, spring changes, checking, checking, checking, etc. A hydro-cammed motor is the way to go for an exclusive street car IMO.

 

[ricks_67]

I think (everybody dont jump on me) once you go solid (roller especially) you crosss the line. Lash checks, spring changes, checking, checking, checking, etc. A hydro-cammed motor is the way to go for an exclusive street car IMO.

Couldn't have said it better.
Sorry to hear about your engine Joe. Jim, Vince and Joe you guys know my story with my motor so no sense going into it again. All I know is I dumped alot of money into it last year and it's time to stop for me. Hyd roller and the Th400 and a lower covertor and hopefully I'll be driving more and not working on it all the time.

 

[Chris Stanwyck]

Sorry to read about what happened.
High performance aspirations with BBc's are expensive and can drain your spirit as well as your pocketbook. Keep your chin up.
I like your hydraulic cam idea for street and occasional strip use.
Like what JIM had to say as well.

 

[Dan Orgill]

Sorry to hear about your mishap, that would really give me a rash..

I admire the guys that have to know how, patience and pocketbooks to build these great motors ( 496, 502, 540, etc ), but I'm keeping my Chevelle sensible with a well built 396. If my daily driver keeps chugging along for me ( another post ), I'm getting the motor done this year.

I was even looking into a Hyd. Roller, but I just couldn't justify the expense, so I'm going with a Voodoo 60203 F/T Hyd. I'm only looking for 400-425 hp, and this should suit me well. I'd love to have a tree stump puller under the hood, but without going to the track, what am I ever going to do with 500+ hp?

Even with a mild build, I've got alot of friends around me telling me to chuck the 396, get a 496 or 502. They just don't look at either the money aspect or the additional headaches that can come up the further we drift away from stock with these cars.

 

[Big James 4XL]

BUMMER!!!

I love to go to cruise ins and other events so it's a no brainer for me to stay with a pretty tame combo. And I can still roast the tires and even make a 12.90 pass. Thing is, I have no reservations about driving it to the Peach State show or CB08, well, except for the price of fuel!!!:beers:

 

[wildman926]

Joe,

When I went to build the SBC in my truck, the parts I selected were the best compromise for a true street/strip vehicle. It has a solid ft, and I have not checked lash in a year. It has a fairly aggressive profile, but on a 112 lsa to help smooth it out. Running a dual plane, HEI, awesome converter, 3.73 gears, etc.... I can drive it anywhere, and haul anything in it and use it like a real truck. When I first moved to my house, I hauled 6 truckloads of brush, piled 2-3 feet high above the cab.

My point is, that I really thought out what I wanted with that build, and stuck to the plan. I am "lucky" in that I have had no issues with it such as what you have experienced.

Now with my new motor for the Chevelle, I am trying to push it a little further past the median point of street/strip, going with a solid roller, but with a street grind that Harold designed. I am hopeing that with all the precautions and parts selected, that I will be successful in this build as well.

But as others have pointed out, you can have issues with either build of the spectrum, mild to wild, it really doesn't matter. It just sounds like you are needing a break. When I had those issues with the other motor on the Chevelle, I just walked away, and let her sit a while, longer than I wanted, but now I am back to working on her, and it feels good. Take a break, go do something else that will recharge your batteries, and get back after it. :beers:

 

[aukai]

Joe our cars are special and they draw allot of attention where ever we go. My car has had no engine trouble but my suspension has been giving me some. When ever the crowd gathers someone always asks "how fast is it." I just want to be able to say my street car will do 11s. I would have a hard time telling them "it used to do 11s but I slowed it down." Take it easy killer take a deep breath as suggested and lets rock and roll again this year:thumbsup:

 

[Dave427]

Hey, sorry to hear about your misfortune. I know the feeling, anymore I hate the aftermarket, nothing fits, it either leaks, rust, corrodes etc. I wanted the hottest street small block for my Chevelle, to compete with my friends that run ZZ502's. They still are close we all run in the high 11's. The only difference is their 502's are more or less stock out of the crate. I am sure you have heard a 502 run, they idle great not too radical, and cruise all day no problem at all. My small block is runs fairly radical needs more gear than the 502 and its not the nicest to cruise all day in. Somedays I feel I should switch my combo to the ZZ502 because my friends that have been running them, they have been more or less maintenance free. Just my thought if I ever switch to big block thats the route I would choose.

Dave

 

[dirtlips408]

OK, you guys are going to love this. Held off posting this catastrophe, but can now talk about it. Anyone following my posts from last fall, we got out to the track and had a blast - to the point of making some great runs - and necessary engine removal and fix (won't go back through all that). At any rate, I build a fresh .070 motor updated with Dart Pro One heads and sell off everything else in the garage that wasn't nailed down {ZZ502 heads, cams, two nice bare blocks, one at .030 and a new tall deck, intakes, etc.}. I even had the tranny redone/upgraded while it was apart.

We install the the fresh .070 motor. Fire it up, and within 3-4 minutes I have foam pouring from the the intake end seals - great, water leak, figure head gasket or intake leak. Shut it down, drain the pan, get 3 gallons of milk sludge - oil and water. Pull the intake, try another intake gasket, same thing. Try a pressure test on the cooling system, nothing, not even 1#. Pull the motor, tear it down, go over everything, now stumped, we can't find anything wrong. The block was mag'd, so at this point, I am sure it is not cracked. Keep in mind the install, fire up, removal and tear down has all occured within 24 hours. Finally, we find a hidden crack (actually a hole the size of the tip of your pinky) tucked way up under the lifter valley at the top of the water jacket right in front of the #2 cam bearing that was not visible except with a mirror and even then very hard to identify. So, the fresh .070 block is now scrap, the crank is scored, everything is soaked with a mayonaise mix and I am ready to haul the car and everything in the garage down the road and leave it for the trash man!

So, thanks to Carl (CNC), I now have a detailed .070 block on the way, but am rethinking this racing crap. Seriously thinking about keeping everything the same (.070, Dart Heads, Air Gap, etc) but dropping in a lot smaller cam, bring the peak HP down to about 5000- 5200 or so, droping to some 3.08 gears and maybe a 2200 converter and just making this a mid-high 12 sec. air conditioned cruiser. Anyone else get the feeling, it's just not worth the agg anymore?

I go throught he same thing all the time....thats why I think im gonna try and make the extra power I want with a small shot of nitrous. 99% of the time my current power level is just fine and is very streetable. So when I wanna play with the bigger kids.....100-125 shot should do trick. Then turn the bottle off and back to normal. Since I wont use it much...refills wont be bad. Thats my plan......as of now...hahaha

 

[creeper72]

Grn69, I hear you on being fustrated. Recently had a similar problem with valve guides leaking on a new build. I had to do it over 3 times, once it was already in the car. Anyway my advice is like others walk away for a bit, but dont give in. You will feel great when you see it thru. The only trouble with going milder is after time you may get the desire again for more power.Been there done that, just try to be honest with yourself so you wont have to do it one more time a year from now.Good luck with it.

 

[GRN69CHV]

Fortunately, I have been busy with other things, so the car is more/less in the picture. On a positive note, I have taken advantage of the downtime for a much needed interior refinish. Had an entire new interior kit sitting here for two years now.

I've heard Ron454 recently talk of the same thing. Rowdy with the trans saga. Who's had roller failures. The list goes on and on. Important for me to remember what I preach, that safety should come first. Last time I ran mid 11's, it was in a full caged ex Super Stock car, not a lap belt equipped street car.

 

[mr 4 speed]

Joe,painting those Dart Pro 1's Chevy orange and adding a Winters 163 intake factory intake might be kinda cool...

 

[BillsCamino]

I think (everybody dont jump on me) once you go solid (roller especially) you crosss the line. Lash checks, spring changes, checking, checking, checking, etc. A hydro-cammed motor is the way to go for an exclusive street car IMO.

Let me be the first to "jump"...

Just pulled my motor last week and got it tore down over the weekend.
The short block will have been together 5 years in Nov; the top end is three years old.
A couple thousand street miles and probably 100+ trips down the track over these years.
Other than a slightly loose timing chain...the interior looks as if it has only been run 10 minutes! The bearings look as if they could actually be reused.
Big custom ground solid roller, over .760" gross lift, a true 11:1 pump gas compression.
Valve adjustments were done ONCE a year. The SAME springs and lifters were used for the past three years!
Gonna hone the cylinders, reuse the pistons/rods/crank, new bearings & rings, freshen up the valve train and back together it goes.
I really wanted an excuse to go bigger but after looking at the existing rotating assembly I can see no reason to do so at this point.

 

[mc71454]

It's surely a tough call to make...

 

[bracketchev1221]

I know the feeling and it's just a matter of time before I give this stuff up. I've been around racing since I was a baby with my Dad. I just put the car together and on the 3rd start broke a (company to remain nameless) $180 flexplate. Their answer was send it back and for $45 they'll put another ring gear on it. It broke 1 tooth right off. The other teeth around it are fine and they said this just happens. Needless to say I had some choice words for the customer service guy. But anyway, the trans is back out and the new cheapo flexplate will be here tomorrow. So I'm shooting for May 10 (sat) to go to Maple Grove if anyone else is going.