Those heads are Dart Iron Eagle heads. Decent head, but IMO, not the right choice for your combo. With flat top pistons and 120cc chambers your compression is only going to be 8:1, way too low. Combine that with the fact that 308cc intake runner is a little big for a 454 (IMO), it will be lacking abit in low speed torque.

You would be much better off looking for a set of closed chamber 215 or 063 oval port heads, install bigger valves and perform a little bowl work. IMO, the oval ports will work better with the cam you have picked.

 

thanks darren
i have a set of 802's but they need to be totally redone
i was told they would be around $900.00 to do right,does this sound right?

 

Edelbrock also has a set of 100cc chamber heads too - something to consider. About 1800.00 bucks though, but will probably make another 50HP over the irons.

 

I'd think you could have them cleaned up new guides, new valves, cut for bigger valves & new seats, etc etc for $900, so that you'd end up with completely rebuilt heads WITH 2.19/1.88 valves and all new hardware. It might be worth talking to a reputable machine shop and see, maybe you could even get out cheaper than that. If it's going to run as much as $900 it might be worth looking around a little, you could probably find a set of closed chamber heads already rebuilt with big valves cheaper than that.

You could also consider something like the Edelbrock heads with 100cc chambers, link below, but they would drive up the cost quite a bit, at $650 each bare.

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...60489&N=700+400065+4294867081+4294908216+4294840133+4294784388+115&autoview=sku

I've never used these somebody on here might be able to give you some thoughts on how good of a value they are for a performance head.

 

I think 69CHVL and I are talking about the same heads, I didn't see his post when I put mine up

 

Yep...great minds think alike!

Seems like a set of irons redone with new valves/guides approaches around 1000.00 here. Porting...minor porting...is what, another 400.00? Heck, your not too far from the Eddy's now, not to mention the Eddy will still outflow whatever port job was done to the irons and 70lbs off the the front of the car.

I guess if it comes to irons, you have to keep the cost as cheap as possible, b/c aluminum isnt too far away in some cases.

Heads are where power is made- you need to splurge here.

 

not to mention the Eddy will still outflow whatever port job was done to the irons

I'm not so sure about that Vince. OEM iron ovals with a little work will flow at least what the Eddy's will. My home ported 049's had better low/mid lift flow and about the same peak flow, all this with a smaller port. Nothing against the Edelbrock heads, they are a good piece, but with a little work iron ovals can be just as good. If someone has an air compressor, a few air tools and a little time the port work can be performed by about anyone. It's not that hard to just clean up the bowl area a little. I had never done any port work before, just read alot and looked at alot of photos and tried to duplicate what I saw and read about. My 049's ended up flowing 308 cfm on the intake side. If the port work is performed at home, IMO you can cut the price down quite abit on a set of refurbished iron ovals.

 

I'm talking about a typical low-buck port job. If you have enough money you can get irons to out flow AFR's if you want. I think if you got over 300cfm at home, your doing something right. Exhaust port flow though is pretty important too.

I'm just saying watch your money.

 

How much can W/P's cast-iron Merlin large oval heads be angle-milled down to?? Will they angle cut down from 119 to 95 cc's??

I figure this is the cheapest way to get a good head for this IF NOT, then, unless you want to rework an early pair of -206's at like 96.7 to 98 cc's or so?

And the early -206's will do a decent STREET 454/460/467 BB FINE w/ just a good stock type, 3-angle valve job and a Sat. afternoon bowl-blend..

As always, jmho..

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

How much can W/P's cast-iron Merlin large oval heads be angle-milled down to?? Will they angle cut down from 119 to 95 cc's??

I figure this is the cheapest way to get a good head for this IF NOT, then, unless you want to rework an early pair of -206's at like 96.7 to 98 cc's or so?

And the early -206's will do a decent STREET 454/460/467 BB FINE w/ just a good stock type, 3-angle valve job and a Sat. afternoon bowl-blend..

As always, jmho..

pdq67

Most 118 cc combustion chambers will only go down to about 114.5 if flat milled before you get into the intake valve seat from what i've seen.

 

The closed chamber ovals with big valves and unshrouding will meet or beat the Eddys, if go aluminum I would get the Race-Rites ovals, about the same price and way more flow.

 

Race Rites are like 2200.00, then another 250.00 for angle mill....not to close in price to the 1800.00 Eddy's, but yes they flow better.

 

Race Rites are like 2200.00

I thought they were cheaper for some reason.

 

$1295 for those shiney heads over at www.patriot-performance.com

 

Yea, what is the skinny on those Patriots? Did Bill ever get down there to take the tour? Going to be in the market for some aluminum heads pretty soon and these are looking promosing according to the Patriot thread.

Jeff

 

The below correspondence is Patriots response to me if their heads would help my 74 454 with 8.1 cr ,a 60203, air gap, 780 holly and headers.

I give them a "A" for honesty!!

From: Gunnar Bowlin [mailto:Gunnar@Patriot-Performance.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:50 AM
To: j.keskes@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Patriot Performance: User filled in Contact Us form!

Our heads are going to be 119cc chambers. We do not mill them to 110 because this would require angle milling. The reason we do not angle mill is because the intake will also have to be milled to match the heads. For you particular set up, you might want to look at getting a set of oval port heads with a smaller runner volume. We don't make this head, but it may work better than our 320cc runner.

Thank you,
Gunnar Bowlin
Patriot Performance
888-462-8276
www.Patriot-Performance.com


From: Jeff Keskes [mailto:j.keskes@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:37 AM
To: 'Gunnar Bowlin'
Subject: RE: Patriot Performance:

Gunner, Thank you for your quick response!! Unfortunately for me, you have the wrong answer  although honest and I appreciate that.
Again, I appreciate your quick response, and with Patriot and your success.
Regards,
Jeff



The customer getting the best set up for them is more important that just making a sale. If you need any help in the future, please let us know.

Thank you,
Gunnar Bowlin
Patriot Performance
888-462-8276
www.Patriot-Performance.com


________________________________________

 

Well, btt question..

How much can a 118/119 cc BB head angle mill down to??

How much angle cut will be needed to make them 100 cc's??

And can they be angle cut to 90 cc's??

GOOD info to know, imho!!

I'm not worried about the intake face angle right now BUT it will have to be addressed.

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

Well, btt question..

How much can a 118/119 cc BB head angle mill down to??

Paul,
My AFR 335 CNC heads, originally 121cc, are angle milled (done locally) down to 107cc which is just about the limit on these heads.
Very close to the intake seat. Intake valves are 2.300", BTW.

 

Yes almost 1000.00 to go through a set of heads here - this is for everything though soup to nuts. How much does needing guide work, anybody know?

I have a set of AFR 305 w/CNC chambers that are 105cc...they did get into the valve seat abit. They would actually go to 102cc. Even at 102cc, there is still room left for a couple of "clean-up" passes if needed.

 

Yes almost 1000.00 to go through a set of heads here - this is for everything though soup to nuts. How much does needing guide work, anybody know?

.

"soup to nuts" I assume all new valves, springs, keepers, retainers, guides, hard seats, and machine work. $600-$800 here depending on valve size and spring requirement.

 

Bill and Vince,

Thanks, what's the angle that has to be set up to cut them this small?

The AFR 335 head at 121 to 107 cc's and the AFR 305 head to 105 cc's?

Heck, we should be able to angle cut a -206 head down WAY small!

He, He!! 12+ to 1 CR. w/ true flat-tops sort of deal.

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

Please, ttt!

Really like to get answers to this just so I'd/we'd know.

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

 

Please, ttt!

Really like to get answers to this just so I'd/we'd know.

pdq67

Per AFR their heads will go to 102cc, all the way from 121cc (heads with the CNC chamber). Angle mill removes 1cc per .009 cut. Not sure of the angle but if you take 121cc-102cc=19cc reduction, x.009 = .171 cut. Figure they take just about nothing from the intake side of the head and all off the exhaust side of the head, so you can figure out the angle from this.

 

The only problem I see is that if you are going to mill heads, you need to also mill the intake face of the heads...NOT the intake. That way they aren't married together and you can use any intake you want.


Milling the intake is a backward way to go about it all.


JIM

 

The only problem I see is that if you are going to mill heads, you need to also mill the intake face of the heads...NOT the intake. That way they aren't married together and you can use any intake you want.


Milling the intake is a backward way to go about it all.

Exactly! :thumbsup:
I've had three different intakes on these heads...bolted on right out of the box.

Paul...I don't recall what angle was milled. Maybe check with Wolfplace. That's where these heads originally came from and we used his recommendation on the angle.
Or you could call Tony Mamo (AFR) at (818)890-0616 Ext. 109, IIRC.

 

Bill, did you need thicker intake gaskets?

Does the intake bolt angle change...like the bolt head does rest against the intake evenly?

 

Thanks guys!

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote