[buddyv]

What's the best for preventing rust, from coming back on cleaned metal; power coating or epoxy primer? Which will hold up the longest? Thank you in advance...

 

[pnugene]

What's the best for preventing rust, from coming back on cleaned metal; power coating or epoxy primer? Which will hold up the longest? Thank you in advance...

My vote goes to epoxy.

 

[yelchevelle]

I think both are great options. I personally love the SPI epoxy. They have great support (usually you can talk directly to the owner) and will ship fast (I am pretty sure shipping is free). I have read that their fully cured black epoxy will come within 5% of the hardness of top of the line powder coating. The deciding factor for me had more to do with ease of application. I can epoxy whenever I get ready. I don't have to get on a powder coater's schedule. You can also touch up epoxy a lot easier. I have no idea what the cost difference would be. The guy I know of around here quoted me between 1200-1500 to sandblast my frame and powder coat it. That seemed high to me. I had someone else blast my frame and cross member for 150 bucks, and I coated it with spi epoxy for about 60-100 dollars in materials. If you have to pay someone else to do it all, there may not be much cost difference. I don't know. I haven't finished mine completely, but when I finish with my frame modifications, I will scuff it, and spray another top coat. The powder coat, I would have had to have everything done before I sent it off.

I would have to say the biggest downsides of epoxy would be lack of color options and cure time. Epoxy needs to be in 65-70 degree weather or warmer to cure, and the full cure time for the SPI stuff is 30-90 days. You can handle it and use it way before then, but its full hardness takes a while. The warmer it is the faster it will cure. For me, the benefits of the epoxy outweighed the downsides, but I can definitely appreciate the usefulness of powder coat. I have toyed with the idea of buying an old oven to powder coat my own smaller parts. I think you can't go wrong with either one

P.S. The only reason I went ahead and got mine blasted was because I happened upon a guy that would blast it for that price. I wasn't looking to spend the money yet, but I every other quote I ever got was between 400-600 to blast it. When the guy said 150 bucks, I didn't want to give the guy time to change his mind. He was older, and he most likely has everything paid for. He does mostly industrial stuff. He was not running the nozzle end of the blaster. He had someone else doing that. There is no way I would only charge 150 bucks to do that job, but I will gladly pay someone that much.

 

[nekkidhillbilly]

the things ive noticed on pc equipment I own it will for reason after years lift off in sheets with rust on under. this is like garden equipment and so forth. so I think the epoxy will hold up better.

 

[Anylizer]

the things ive noticed on pc equipment I own it will for reason after years lift off in sheets with rust on under. this is like garden equipment and so forth. so I think the epoxy will hold up better.

The reason this occurs is poor prep. Just like paint, powder requires a good clean substrate with plenty of tooth to hold the powder. Most production powder coating operations do "0" sanding or etching to provide tooth, and cleaning is pressure washing. High volume production powder coaters use a chemical (phosphates, among others) to provide tooth and cleaning all in one step. It is fast and efficient, but long term durability is compromised.

I have been "Custom" powder coating for 20+ yrs. everything i do is mechanically etched, washed with lacquer thinner, then run through a bake-out cycle that would remove any additional impurities. To the best of my knowledge I have never had any of my coating lift after years & years of service. You are not likely to get this kind of attention to detail from a production coater... nor would most people want to pay for it.

As a side note, powder comes in many different compounds just like paint... urethane, poly-urethane, and Epoxy. For all intents and purposes, powder IS paint with the liquid solvents removed, per the EPA... its cleaner/safer.

 

[zombie1969]

I think if you really want to prevent rust you need something that repels water probably an oil based coating like corrosion X. Good prep and paint is a good first step.

 

[Raven1]

I would have to say the biggest downsides of epoxy would be lack of color options and cure time..

PPG CRE epoxy can be tinted to any color you want. Few know because they are not in the business. CRE is in the commercial line, an excellent product and much less expensive than the automotive refinish line. Resto shops including myself, as well as reps use it. I don't have corrosion issues with epoxy when the metal is properly prepared. The commercial line also offers topcoats that are bulletproof and made for the harshest environments.

 

[yelchevelle]

PPG CRE epoxy can be tinted to any color you want. Few know because they are not in the business. CRE is in the commercial line, an excellent product and much less expensive than the automotive refinish line. Resto shops including myself, as well as reps use it. I don't have corrosion issues with epoxy when the metal is properly prepared. The commercial line also offers topcoats that are bulletproof and made for the harshest environments.

That is good to know. Where do you buy the CRE epoxy? Do you find this at a standard PPG provider? The PPG store here seemed T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. I am sure I could find a better one if I looked closer to Atlanta. Maybe the few times I went in I talked to the wrong person, but I just remember being amazed at the answers for a few of the questions asked. A lot of times I will ask a question that I either know the answer to or have a pretty good idea about in a place like that to see what they know. They always give you an answer whether they know what they are talking about or not. I would rather someone just tell me they don't know, but they can find out.

I think the thing that is so appealing about the SPI epoxy to the hobbyist is that information is so readily available. Their products are discussed in detail on their forum(mostly by professional custom painters it seems) and others, and their support line gives you access to the owner most of the time. SPI seems to achieve the goals I have with it, but the PPG may be a better product, especially for a professional. I want to say that the main concern with tinting the SPI was loss of strength. Is that a concern with the PPG? What about cost? I am sure you get professional pricing, but do you have any idea of what the cost is for the regular Joe would be?

 

[1966_L78]

That is good to know. Where do you buy the CRE epoxy? Do you find this at a standard PPG provider? ... What about cost? I am sure you get professional pricing, but do you have any idea of what the cost is for the regular Joe would be?

Yeah,

What should it cost for a quart? Just ball-park...

I know paint prices can be high, but last year I walked into a local automotive paint store near my work(I think they even sold PPG products), but there prices were SUPER high, and I was looking for stuff for a hobbiest, and NOT the top of the line product levels... I got the feeling they were trying to charge me more just because I was a small-time customer... IIRC, I think they were somewhere around $200/gallon for the least expensive automotive paint (and in "Blue" color), NOT including activator, etc...

 

[Raven1]

That is good to know. Where do you buy the CRE epoxy? Do you find this at a standard PPG provider? The PPG store here seemed T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. I am sure I could find a better one if I looked closer to Atlanta. Maybe the few times I went in I talked to the wrong person, but I just remember being amazed at the answers for a few of the questions asked. A lot of times I will ask a question that I either know the answer to or have a pretty good idea about in a place like that to see what they know. They always give you an answer whether they know what they are talking about or not. I would rather someone just tell me they don't know, but they can find out.

I think the thing that is so appealing about the SPI epoxy to the hobbyist is that information is so readily available. Their products are discussed in detail on their forum(mostly by professional custom painters it seems) and others, and their support line gives you access to the owner most of the time. SPI seems to achieve the goals I have with it, but the PPG may be a better product, especially for a professional. I want to say that the main concern with tinting the SPI was loss of strength. Is that a concern with the PPG? What about cost? I am sure you get professional pricing, but do you have any idea of what the cost is for the regular Joe would be?

A separate contract is required for a PPG jobber to sell the commercial line. Many jobber counter people just sell products and do not paint, were never in the business, and were never employed at a training center. I often hear of how some areas have crappy jobbers. You'd most likely pay 120-130 bucks for a gallon set up of CRE. I also use PPG AUE satin for undercarriages which is around 90 bucks for a gallon set-up. Accelerator is optional and extra but I use it. PPG has a bus color deck from which to choose black gloss levels. CRE has zero shrinkage, can be applied heavy and can be blocked easily once you cut the skin off. One blocking session after proper bodywork and follow with three coats of regular 2K before paint.


Nothing wrong with SPI, it's a great product but too slow for me, and I don't like induction times. PPG has 2050 DTM in their Vibrance line now. 141 bucks a gallon with hardener and made for the restoration business. Body filler can be applied over 2050. Just stocked it but have not tried it yet. I also use RM EP epoxy which is great and can also be mixed as a polyuroxy.


CRE only comes in gallons as the commercial line pertains to an entirely different industry.

 

[Terry who]

Also a product sold by the local PPG dealer here is a DTM ( direct to metal) product AUE-370. Used around here for industrial and road equipment. Designed to go over sandblasted metal. High build polyurethane. Looks good and tough. It can also be applied over approved primers. Not overly expensive, I believe it was around 145.00 with the hardener and thinner. That was a gallon price. Probably more than needed to do a frame. I've looked into powder coating. price in this area is about 400.00 that's with blasting.

 

[Kaizen]

Also a product sold by the local PPG dealer here is a DTM ( direct to metal) product AUE-370. Used around here for industrial and road equipment. Designed to go over sandblasted metal. High build polyurethane. Looks good and tough. It can also be applied over approved primers. Not overly expensive, I believe it was around 145.00 with the hardener and thinner. That was a gallon price. Probably more than needed to do a frame. I've looked into powder coating. price in this area is about 400.00 that's with blasting.

Last I looked I couldn't even find a place to powder coat a whole frame within an hour from me. made my decision easy. 400 is CHEAP!

 

[nelson16351993]

Rather or not you are able to blast it back to clean metal this is the process I would use. Do not use bed liner or undercoating. Get your hands on a pressure pot. If you are not able to blast metal clean then fill your pressure pot with mek. But I'm asking to throw down and blast every nook and cranny you can find. Do this after removing all loose material that you can. Needle scalers were good for this. Once you've done this remove what more material you can that was probably held together by Grease and other deposits. If not blasting scuff up areas with remaining paint or powder coat with 120 or 180 until all shine is gone.Get up diamond Vogel and get some of their two part epoxy primer. This is also known as Pinnacle primer. Use what you have left of mek to thin the Pinnacle primer down aways. Put a good coat and Pinnacle primer on it and then scene seal any seams you can find with a good reputable seam sealer high temp no matter the application seems to be the best. Put another coat nice and thick of this primer over it. After that dries get your hands on some Enron 3.5 by ExAlta. It does not get hard and cheap like most paints and like powder coat. It is one of the best looking strongest paints in existence and it sprays really nice but do not breathe it it's overwhelming performance also comes with overwhelming nastiness. As long as you don't breathe it too much your kids won't have more limbs than they're supposed to and whatever you do this to will last way longer on the road than anything powder coated and anything undercoated. I've used it on ancient Coast guard ships I've used the same exact process on fleets of semi trucks custom big rig jobs heavy equipment and just about everything in between and every time the longest lasting most durable is that exact process but it's always best to have a good white blast beforehand. Don't ask me for numbers and codes I'm not the one behind the computer I'm the one behind the gun.