[john@BMP]

I can speak for a only a couple of the brands, Edlebrock is US made - at least machined. Castings MAY be dome overseas, but I am pretty sure on they are 100% US. As for others I am not sure. The castings are definately different, but all are adaptations of the edelbrock intakes. Summit intakes are either from Professional products or Procomp. These would all be tha same casting and all 100% chicom. Professional has very good products which they did a good deal of R&D to create "original" versions of the edelbrock models. THey are nicely priced as well. Procomp is notorious for pure copies of other companies products. The owner is in Australia and doesnt seem to care about US copyright laws. He went direct to the plant in china that has the molds for professional products intakes and offered to buy intakes from the chinese using Profesionals molds. So Summit uses either of these brands intakes as a private label. Or they themsleves are oredering direct from china where the knock-offs are plentiful. As for the other brands I am not sure. I do know there are very few foundaries left in the US due to strict EPA regs.

Now that is a good post.

Edelbrock casts in the US. Vic is a stickler about that. They own their own foundries.

 

[MY FYN 79]

What is the basis of the comparison? You ask how these intakes "COMPARE" but how? If we are to say one is "better" or "worse" on what criteria are we basing that conclusion?

At this point? Anything. I'll repeat again, I have seen no info on those two. You almost make it sound like you have a ton of info on these intakes but arent sharing because I havent asked the right question. I want anything.

I understand what you are trying to do here John, but its a little much. I'm not asking how to get the last thousanth in the 1/4 mile with a top fuel engine. I've decided on a dual plane for my engine, and asked if people had any info on the mentioned intakes.

You can't tell anything from pictures i a book.. Just can't.

A cam for example, yes I agree. When it comes to my question, I dont agree. A picture tells me that 3 are made from the same casting, and the other two are different. I know the Air gap is a good intake but curious on the others.

 

[Mikeys69]

John@BMP. What I liked "which invoked my realworld comment" was 540Hotrod showing real results between a single plane intake vs a dual plane intake.

Because 540Hotrod found were the dual plane would just fall off in hp at 6300rpm. Were as the single plane continued to make power over 6300 RPM, showing a 20hp gain. Now this gain will be different with different combinations "I'm sure we can all understand this", but it does show you need the rpms to pull this extra power. Plus it shows us a single plane intake may not be the best for the a street car.

Now this isn't what the OP was looking for, but I did only say it was good information. Maybe not for the OP but still good information. That's it that's all.

BTW 540Hotrod has a proven track record for helping many TC'ers with many different problems. So I for one believe him.

Now as for you John from BMP, maybe just push the keyboard away and do some reading instead of typing like a Kung Fu fighter. The regulars on this board are very quick to shut down any information that can't be backed up with some sort of proof. So relax and have some fun John.

 

[john@BMP]

At this point? Anything. I'll repeat again, I have seen no info on those two. You almost make it sound like you have a ton of info on these intakes but arent sharing because I havent asked the right question. I want anything.

I understand what you are trying to do here John, but its a little much. I'm not asking how to get the last thousanth in the 1/4 mile with a top fuel engine. I've decided on a dual plane for my engine, and asked if people had any info on the mentioned intakes.

I commented above about Edelbrock because I have something positive to say. I am NOT holding out information from you. I just can't, as a representative of my company, say anything negative about other products. I won't. I can't. It's not right. It's not that I'm holding out on you, it's just not BMP's position to trash other products.

We have had competitors trash us, even right here on this site, and we just let it go. We do not, and will not operate that way. Some day it all comes around.

Understand, I'm not trying to be a ball buster, but over the years I have seen too many people spend too much money on stuff that produced mediocre results because someone on a forum told him this was the "cool part". I just don't want that to happen to you. I hope you understand. I am trying to work as your advocate, even if my approach is off.

If you want to PM me, I'll give you my number, and we can talk. My son has a game today, but outside of that I'm free. But I'm not putting something in a public forum that would reflect negatively on a competitor.

A cam for example, yes I agree. When it comes to my question, I dont agree. A picture tells me that 3 are made from the same casting, and the other two are different. I know the Air gap is a good intake but curious on the others.

Well, I like to hold things in my hand, there's only so much you can get from a picture.

Believe me, I'm on your side here. I don't want you to spend money on something that isn't going to work.

If I'm pissy about anything is you didn't include us in the question....(JOKING!)...someone was going to say it..

 

[john@BMP]

John@BMP. What I liked "which invoked my realworld comment" was 540Hotrod showing real results between a single plane intake vs a dual plane intake.

Because 540Hotrod found were the dual plane would just fall off in hp at 6300rpm. Were as the single plane continued to make power over 6300 RPM, showing a 20hp gain. Now this gain will be different with different combinations "I'm sure we can all understand this", but it does show you need the rpms to pull this extra power. Plus it shows us a single plane intake may not be the best for the a street car.

The OP asked about a dual plane

I'm looking at SBC dual plane intakes and noticed several "new" ones out lately that I've never seen before.

So really the best we can say is a single plane manifold will spin you up with more rpm and result in more HP as a result. OK, fair enough, but that is not how it came across.

BTW 540Hotrod has a proven track record for helping many TC'ers with many different problems. So I for one believe him.

I believe him too. I have no problem with what he did, the test, etc... I have a problem with the interpretation of the test. We see this a lot with heads. "we took off head "A" and put on head "B" and came up with XXXX more power." Really doesn't tell you much other than head "A" worked better with the combined parts than "B". Change the combined parts and change the results.

Now as for you John from BMP, maybe just push the keyboard away and do some reading instead of typing like a Kung Fu fighter. The regulars on this board are very quick to shut down any information that can't be backed up with some sort of proof. So relax and have some fun John.

GOOD! As it should be. And coming from a manufacturer's perspective, if I make a claim I EXPECT and ENCOURAGE you guys to kick my ass and MAKE ME PROVE IT.

That should be the standard we all live by. I will not take somone's money on a claim I can't back up.

This is why I can't answer some questions some times. People say "how much HP will I pick up with XXX Part".... the reality is there is no way to tell. I can't and won't participate in those conversations.

The best we can say is "a similar combination did XYZ"...

I hope you're right and people here demand proof from every claim someone makes. And I hope there is one standard.

 

[Yellomalibu]

I think we all understand that all components of a build add to the result, and one part is more ideal for the combo than another would be.

I don't think the op was asking which intake would be ideal for his combo ( I don't think he has even shared what his combo is), but generally speaking, which intake is better. We can make generalizations. We do it every day. We don't live in a scientific laboratory where every thing must be proven as an undisputed fact.

Generally speaking, it seems that a lot of us like the Air Gap manifold for street or street/strip vehicles. Very few of us have the required input to satisfy John's strict standards, but many comparisons can be seen on youtube or in magazines. Yes, a perfectionist can pick apart each one, saying this or that isn't ideal, but eventually when the cream seems to rise to the top, it's fairly safe to say that's a good choice for a similar build.

 

[john@BMP]

I think we all understand that all components of a build add to the result, and one part is more ideal for the combo than another would be.

I don't think the op was asking which intake would be ideal for his combo ( I don't think he has even shared what his combo is), but generally speaking, which intake is better. We can make generalizations. We do it every day. We don't live in a scientific laboratory where every thing must be proven as an undisputed fact.

Generally speaking, it seems that a lot of us like the Air Gap manifold for street or street/strip vehicles. Very few of us have the required input to satisfy John's strict standards, but many comparisons can be seen on youtube or in magazines. Yes, a perfectionist can pick apart each one, saying this or that isn't ideal, but eventually when the cream seems to rise to the top, it's fairly safe to say that's a good choice for a similar build.

I don't disagree Yellow. But you said he wanted to know which intake was better, and I have yet to see better defined and supported. So shouldn't the first question be "what do you have and what are your goals" before we start making recommendations?

I'm not saying we need to be a protectionist. I'm just saying to make recommendations, even if just estimates, but it really should be based on more than we have. Let's think this out a little.

I don't like to see forums where every engine is

1.XXX Cam
2. XXX head
3. XXX intake

Etc....

Know what I'm saying? Just saying that there is no "one size fits all" solution.

I can show you dyno graphs from an engine with bad forum information, that costs double a junkyard engine, and the HP/Torque was VERY SIMILAR.

I REALLY have the OP's best interest at heart here and I don't expect perfection. I am saying before we start making recommendations, let's understand what he's trying to accomplish.

Let's try to help the guy get as close as possible to his goals short of putting it on a dyno and changing parts. Let's do it on our collective experience. But let's not knee jerk or use faulty basis to do it. I'm not saying we'll get it right, perfect, but we can do better than this.

And BTW, the Air Gap is a good product. Edelbrock does a great job. If fills a niche' and does what it's supposed to do well. Probably a good choice.

I think my position has run its course here. Hope you all understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Yellomalibu]

I don't disagree with any of that, John. You are correct.

Before making a recommendation, it would be good to ask someone something like: Can you tell us as much as you know about your engine, carb, and the goal or intended use of the car?

One of the biggest hurdles, however, is that the average person looking to buy an intake probably doesn't know the specific characteristics of his or her engine. Compression, cam specs, cam timing, intake runner size, valve size, etc. are bits of info many people will never have... so suggestions have to go on generalizations.

The OP has likely seen that question pop up a few times in this thread, and hasn't volunteered any information... so here we are discussing which intakes tend to be better for various applications. Hopefully it's helping him or her learn some general info on intakes.

*edited to add: Also, to a lot of people cost is a large factor in their choice. If the imported brands tend to be just a few hp or ft lbs short of the name brands, but are considerably cheaper, they will go with the cheaper choice. I actually did this on my DD. Not really caring about buying the "optimum" intake, I bought the PP Crosswind because it was cheaper and seems to work okay. For my Chevelle, however, I went with the Air Gap RPM because of research I have done, it seemed to be the best choice for my intended use and components.

Hijack on:

John, did I choose the proper intake for my car?

3400lb Chevelle to be used as a street car. Perhaps bracket raced 1 or 2 times a year for fun; not worried about max ET or mph. No dyno info.

406 flat top, 6" rods, AFR 195 heads with Ferrea 2.02/1.60 valves (approx. 11:1 compression)
Comp XR286R cam (installed "straight up")
1.5 Crower roller rockers,
36* timing locked,
1 3/4" headers to 3" exhaust,
HP Holley 750dp fed by Holley Blue pump.
HEI w/ MSD 6al to fire it.
Shift point: 6500 rpm.
TH400 w/ a "tight 4000" FTI converter, cruises fine at 2100+ rpm.
4.30 gears (but will be going with 3.73's for highway driveability)
275/60/15 BFG T/A radials (28" tall)

Some of those components clearly aren't ideal, but I used some parts I had and tried to choose other parts to compliment them for the intended use with my limited budget.

... or should I have kept the Victor Junior or chosen a different intake?

 

[john@BMP]

I don't disagree with any of that, John. You are correct.

Before making a recommendation, it would be good to ask someone something like: Can you tell us as much as you know about your engine, carb, and the goal or intended use of the car?

One of the biggest hurdles, however, is that the average person looking to buy an intake probably doesn't know the specific characteristics of his or her engine. Compression, cam specs, cam timing, intake runner size, valve size, etc. are bits of info many people will never have... so suggestions have to go on generalizations.

Ya know, when I get this kind of situation in tech support my response is "I really can't help you without knowing more about your entire setup."

The only thing I can tell someone is if they are coming from stock, anything different I feel is disingenuous and misleading.

Maybe if they don't know what they are dealing with, they shouldn't be changing an intake both from a financial perspective, results perspective, and a technical perspective. To change something for the sake of changing something rarely results in good outcome.

Hell, who hasn't done it. I have. I remember as a kid friends dropping 750 DP carbs on Z28s with an otherwise stock 350 and wondering why it didn't go anywhere... we've been there. I would hope if that same kid showed up here we'd tell him leave it as is. I wish someone would have told me as a kid before I spent money I didn't have..

The OP has likely seen that question pop up a few times in this thread, and hasn't volunteered any information... so here we are discussing which intakes tend to be better for various applications. Hopefully it's helping him or her learn some general info on intakes.

I agree. And what seems academic to us, could be new to some people. Like the example 540 put up. I think it was a GREAT example, but we came away with the wrong conclusion.

Perhaps the conclusion should have been to demonstrate the difference between a dual and single plane intake and ask the OP if a single plane makes sense or not knowing what was just laid out in that example. I have no problem with the examples, it's the take away that bothers me.

*edited to add: Also, to a lot of people cost is a large factor in their choice. If the imported brands tend to be just a few hp or ft lbs short of the name brands, but are considerably cheaper, they will go with the cheaper choice. I actually did this on my DD. Not really caring about buying the "optimum" intake, I bought the PP Crosswind because it was cheaper and seems to work okay. For my Chevelle, however, I went with the Air Gap RPM because of research I have done, it seemed to be the best choice for my intended use and components.

I agree with you completely. One of the things the internet has done wrong is convinced people the first thing they need to do is change heads. I can't tell you how many people I have talked OUT OF heads.

Ask the right questions....'why do you think you need $1500 set of heads"... what other upgrades did you do? Why do you think the heads are the bottleneck? Drill down a little don't assume people know.

On a forum, people will just start spewing head choices....and magazine tests. I agree with you 10000%. This is about the money. If you're going to spend it let's help them get it right. That is my point from the beginning. Let's roll back a couple steps and find out what this guy wants to do and then start making recommendations as to brands and models.

IF his budget is such that he can only afford a cheap knock off intake, why bother discussing it? If his budget is such that he can afford the Air Gap, but is asking if these others are just as well made from a quality perspective, that is an entirely different question. Honestly, I still don't know what the question was other than listing manufacturers and asking opinions, which leads to step 2, opinions based on what desired outcome? Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see the question that can be answered.

Hijack on:

John, did I choose the proper intake for my car?

3400lb Chevelle to be used as a street car. Perhaps bracket raced 1 or 2 times a year for fun; not worried about max ET or mph. No dyno info.

406 flat top, 6" rods, AFR 195 heads with Ferrea 2.02/1.60 valves (approx. 11:1 compression)
Comp XR286R cam (installed "straight up")
1.5 Crower roller rockers,
36* timing locked,
1 3/4" headers to 3" exhaust,
HP Holley 750dp fed by Holley Blue pump.
HEI w/ MSD 6al to fire it.
Shift point: 6500 rpm.
TH400 w/ a "tight 4000" FTI converter, cruises fine at 2100+ rpm.
4.30 gears (but will be going with 3.73's for highway driveability)
275/60/15 BFG T/A radials (28" tall)

Some of those components clearly aren't ideal, but I used some parts I had and tried to choose other parts to compliment them for the intended use with my limited budget.

... or should I have kept the Victor Junior or chosen a different intake?

Here's the thing. You said you race for fun right? And BTW, the fact that you don't have dyno numbers...I like that. I hate people who pull out dyno slips like it's pictures of their kids.. Gotta respect that right there.

So the question isn't if I think you should have done something differently, the question is do you enjoy it. If you like it, that's all that matters. As defined by your goals you are not bracket racing all day long, one or two passes a year. If you're happy with what you got, that's great.

Now, if your goals were timeslips, that's another issue.

I think the root of your question is could you have made more power for the same money? IDK, I wasn't there when you picked the parts.

I like the cam, but would have gone bigger on the head runner. I like big runners and small chambers and I truly believe you're sacrificing on that for a lot of reasons. Anything that starts with a 4XX deserves at least a 215 runner minimum. Some experienced engine builders would say no less than 235 on anything that starts with a 4. Watch how fast THAT turns into a debate. This is what happens when you get caught up with flow.

Realize that you have a proportionally smaller head than a stock 350. If a stock 350 head is a restriction, and you increase the CID by 20% and increase the head by 10%, do you not think you've created another restriction? I do. Many EXPERIENCED engine builders do.

I have said this before, not sure if it was here or not, but the idea of an intake tract, from carb to intake valve, is to keep the air moving steadily from where it comes in to where it goes out. The first one that can scientifically figure that out, will be a billionaire. There are factors like reversion and such that complicate the matter, but you don't want air pooling in the tract. If you can avoid that, you win. That's how guys build junkyard engines that run.

 

[Mikeys69]

Well this thread has turned into a train wreck.
John, why don't you start a thread talking about how a tech support person like your self helps online callers. Could be very interesting.

 

[540Hotrod]

Wow...this is getting fun!! Who knew a simple question about a bunch of dual plane intakes would get so philosophical?? I love it!!

First,sorry John...I jumped conclusions. My PRI conversations with the *other John* seemed to have had some discussions around BMP *getting out there more* and correcting poor information about their products and when I saw you pop up in a lot of Forums since then I just assumed. Apologies! Definitely seems to be a new mantra at BMP..so that's good!

It is ALWAYS about the combination. I've built some good ones...and some slugs. How do they say it? "Experience is the sum of all my mistakes". That's what I try to get out to people. That's why you'll never see me recommend a cam, head etc without LOTS of questions about usage and other parts we're *stuck* with. Often you select a part to be a best compromise or maybe to make a certain part work better. Like skewing a cam all weird to make up for heads that are terrible on the exhaust side maybe. Of course if you changed heads...that cam wouldn't be optimum...but it is best for the heads you're using. Maybe you're trying to make a 350" motor move a 3800LB Chevelle with 3.08 gears..definitely a whole different animal.

In fact...in that dyno test where we did the intake swaps I burned up a page or two going nuts over cam selection from conversations with Billy Godbold at Comp. This particular build consisted of 400" with 200 cc heads that was going to be choked terribly by an OEM 283 2x4 intake setup with WCFB carbs...AND exhaust manifolds. We discussed how to pick a cam based on WHERE the restriction is. For example having it in the intake and not the carbs is one choice as opposed to say an old Busch motor with a 390 cfm carb and a great intake and heads. Same on exhaust side..WHERE is the retriction? On this motor we dyno'd it with our welded and severely ported 283/270 HP intake and then threw on the Dual Plane and the Single Plane because they were a lot more representative of what most folks would end up with if they bought Dart's SHP package. We didn't swap cams to better match the new intakes and headers....but from all the text..people could easily figure out what they should do to make it even better. To illustrate the issue of runner cross section and airflow...the 2x4s only made 495 HP@6000 RPM !

In other dyno tests we've swapped heads with much better airflow on the bench and not picked up any significant power on the dyno. This was a test of really good hand ported heads against some new bad boy CNC heads. When the dust cleared....it was obvious that you CAN buy heads off the shelf to rival some really nice professionally hand ported stuff which is great to know because most folks don't have access to a great porter or don't feel they have the time to wait. Proves knowledge of airflow and port shape is important stuff!

We've challenged internet lore about not needing much cam split if the exhaust ports are really killer on the bench.

We've tackled wide LSA vs tight LSA on a big motor with good heads.

We've done EFI against Dominators. We've done various Dominators against each other.

We've done solid flat tappet, hyd roller, soild roller lifters on a hyd roller cam, solid roller, 4150 carb, Dominator(s), *small* intake ported by Wilson, funky ancient C454 intake, 2 different sized Dominator intakes, oil tests etc etc all in one 3 day dyno session.

And many more.

I like doing these marathons because most people don't have the $$$ or time or parts to spend this amount of time on a dyno to work out combinations. Of course it would be fun to be able to work out all the possible combos...but I usually go with a basic shortblock that is pretty static to what people are using..and then try to show the trends of what to expect. Never really one MFG against another. There's been times when I didn't mention the MFG name because the results were so terrible that I just didn't feel it was a fair representation.

Here's a quote from one of these tests:

"More than anything this testing clearly shows how two very seemingly similar engines can have drastically different results. When someone says “ I don’t know why that guy is faster….my engine is just like his EXCEPT FOR…….”, you can see that they just answered their own question. The devil is in the details and it pays to work with and listen to folks who have already done all the testing for you as they try to steer you in right direction. Of course you’ll never outrun the other guy unless you try new things, but unless you can spend the time to test all the combos, you’re likely to be much happier by staying close to well documented results."

Most people don't swap parts continuously..and you're right...we want to help them pick the best stuff up front. Sorta like I laugh when folks insist they need a 9" diff so they can easily swap the whole chunk out to change gears. Over the last 35 years I know of very few street ( or even race) people who ever spent the $$$ to set up several completely new chunks with varying gear ratios to have in stock. Only serious racers do this. So just do your homework and pic the right gear up front and build a rear that will last forever.

I've seen people spend a lot of $$$ replacing their..let's say *inferior Edelbrock big block aluminum heads* with some new trick of the week ones and not go a bit faster at the track...even though the new ones seemed sized right etc. We don't race flowbenches..they are just a tool.

To Yellowmalibu.....I'll jump in here too. As most around here know....I'm one of those guys that leans to *big* heads too..within reason and with the understanding that *where* the CC's are is as important as how many there are. Again it depends on what we're trying to do. You're trying to get 3400 lbs of Chevelle moving..which is a fairly light one (if this is with driver). You've got 4.30 gears and a 4000 converter and a 3 speed auto. When you nail it, you're going to go right through 4000 RPM in about a nanosecond and the engine will stay up there in the 5000+ range (depending on converter slip) when you have your foot in it. You've got a solid roller cam in it. The cam I used in the above mentioned 400" used the intake lobes from your cam on both intake and exhaust and had a 109 LSA. I used 1.6/1.5 rockers. With good airflow it peaked at 6100-6300 rpm depending on intake. In our case it was still making the same power at 6500 rpm as it was at 6000 rpm..so I wouldn't be scared to push shift points higher than 6500 on yours to keep the RPM drop between shifts higher in the TQ band. You'll need to do the math on yours. We know the AFR heads are good and I expect they do fine...but as John said...for yours I'd have gone larger also if I was picking from scratch.

So did you pick the right intake? Everything about your parts suggests some good RPM potential...no need to lay out in the 6000 range when running it hard. Bigger heads would skew it a little higher..but what you have will hang in at least as well as the as cast 200 cc's I used. Most likely even better.

That said..the RPM Air Gap has proven itself to work very well on just about anything you throw it on. They did a great job with it. I've seen some live testing of the newer Weiand dual planes and they do very well also. You gotta figure they had the competitions stuff in hand when designing them right? I know they spent a lot of time working on cylinder to cylinder A/F ratios on the Weiands. You just have to pay attention to runner size vs cubes/rpm.

I've got several more dyno marathons coming up soon..so as always I'm open to suggestions of what folks would like to see. One real good one is going right now on nasty big inch street motor that will show some surprises. Coming soon is a much more sedate flog of a mild 350" Chevy crate motor. Going to keep that one real life and relatively mild for awhile to find some things that can help without spending huge $$$.


JIM

 

[MY FYN 79]

I can afford whichever intake I choose. I fully understand both single plane and dual plane intakes... owned and used several of both on many engines including the one in question. I understand engines and know every spec on this one, built it myself.

I do not want a single plane, I want a dual plane.

I chose not to add all the engine/car specs to keep the post simple and not have people telling me which one to use on the engine. This post was to compare the current dual planes out there.

Members keep posting about needing the combo to recommend one. What are you going to tell me about the intakes in question when you know my combo??

Either a moderator can lock this post, or just let it die. In a few I'll start a new post asking the exact same thing, and with all due respect John, just leave it alone if you either dont understand it or dont have the info I'm asking for.

Jeeze.

 

[540Hotrod]

With all due respect My FYN 79...you've decided on dual plane and that's fine...you've obviously thought through your needs.

But it is true that we could possibly throw all of those intakes on a mild 350 and not see 2 HP difference in them maybe with near identical RPM peaks.

Drop them on a 400" motor with some good heads, a solid roller and a plan to spin 7000+ rpm with a stick trans and 4.56's...and they might start to show some real difference. The dual plane might still be the best choice if maybe you had a big O/D trans and low RPM cruise needed to be strong, but you would need to look at things like runner volume, length and plenum. Maybe you can't use a spacer? Some of the Stealths have pretty good sized plenums to help feed a big motor at higher RPM's. The Air Gaps seem to like spacers once the airflow gets serious...but if it's a milder motor..the Performer and the RPM end up in a dead heat. I would also ask what carb you're using...because if I have a choice to pick...I'll add some carb size to a dual plane over a single plane to help it out. If limited to a *smaller* carb for the cubes...I might look to a spacer, cutting a plenum or even a smaller single plane.

We all know about the knock offs..and we all know that some big mfg's have had to resort to import castings (often of their own design) to make a *price point* intake so that the big guys can still sell $100 intakes. Heck..look at a Hot Rod magazine from the 60's or 70's/80's. We're buying things like headers, cams. intakes etc for the same $$$ as our Dad's did back then.

Not sure you'll find all those intakes in back to back tests....but some have been done back to back on some mid inch Mopar's and I think HR did a bunch of them on a smallblock a few years ago. Your best bet is to look up each individual test and see how the combo they were used on matches what you're doing. Don't look for absolute numbers to pick one...look at where they peak at for RPM (pay attention to cams and heads used as well as headers) and how they curve is skewed for the TQ/RPM range you want to be in. How well do they do *after peak HP* which is a big deal for me. I hate motors that hit a wall at peak HP and take a dive. The best one will *hang on* after peak so you get a broad RPM range to work in. The ones I posted for that 400" will give you a guideline for the Dart intake on a combo like that if it helps.

JIM

 

[novaderrik]

you must be new- welcome to the internet..
you don't think my first post was helpful in any way? someone asked a general question, and i offered an answer based on personal experience- which is that Edelbrock intakes tend to be easier to bolt everything up to than Weiand intakes and that you probably won't notice a real difference between any of them outside of a dyno cell.

No, I think your post spoke to the nature of your QC experience with some of the mentioned brands, which, is about the best answer that can be given, with the given information.

i wasn't talking about QC- i was talking about the design.. Edelbrocks tend to keep everything in the oem locations and just tend to fit better with stock accessory brackets and what not.. even little things like the placement of the heater hose outlets an thermostat housing location are close to the oem location and angle.
i've had a couple of Weiand intakes that came with special smaller 1 point bolts in the box because you can't get a stock 9/16" head bolt in one location on each side.. the heater hose outlets stick straight up, which required me to find an inline water shutoff valve when i out one in my 74 Monte Carlo, and i was able to go back to the stock water shutoff valve when i swapped in an Edelbrock intake later on.
that's the kind of stuff i was talking about, since i know that the average Joe putting an intake on in their garage won't be able to tell the difference in performance in similar intakes from one brand to another.


someone mentioned that they think that the Summit brand intakes are made by Professional Products- last i heard they were made by Weiand and came in a Weiand box with a Weiand instruction sheet and Weiand has their stuff cast overseas and does the machining here. i think that was on this very site.. but that was like a year ago and things do change.

 

[66 BRONZE]

I think john@BMP is here for nothing more than to gather client's, to push his newly acquired well known (bad rep) business into the fore-front. People here like advise, I think Johns comments about CrazeyDavey was uncalled for, but thats just me. I think if you look at the whole spectrum of this thread, John@BPM is a BIG salesman,and a newbie,trying to drum up business. To the OP, the Eddy Air gap is hard to beat. As far as all the diatribes and tangents you had to listen to because someone is trying to resurrect a business. I suggest you just look to the men that have been here for a long time, with great combo's and take their advise..:thumbsup::beers:

 

[7o Chevelle]

To the OP, I asked the same question a long time ago and everybody said the Edelbrock Dual Plane Air Gap intake. A guy even showed me a youtube video of a PROFFESIONAL test it up againt the regular rpm series and the victor jr, and it showed to be the best. Thats what i orderd and thats what im going with on my mild to high performance daily driver.

Sorry i didn't go along with this train wreck asking for the combo and a milkshake or my vote for prom queen l

 

[john@BMP]

I think john@BMP is here for nothing more than to gather client's, to push his newly acquired well known (bad rep) business into the fore-front. People here like advise, I think Johns comments about CrazeyDavey was uncalled for, but thats just me. I think if you look at the whole spectrum of this thread, John@BPM is a BIG salesman,and a newbie,trying to drum up business. To the OP, the Eddy Air gap is hard to beat. As far as all the diatribes and tangents you had to listen to because someone is trying to resurrect a business. I suggest you just look to the men that have been here for a long time, with great combo's and take their advise..:thumbsup::beers:

What exactly did I say to CrazyDavey, I must have missed it.

I explained why I am here. Right now I am participating in conversation. I have not said "buy my junk" anywhere in this thread. IN FACT I DON'T EVEN HAVE A PRODUCT THAT FITS THE OP'S CRITERIA so I'm not so sure how I can be considered "selling" anything. I enjoy talking about this stuff, and purposely picked a thread where I can not be accused of selling.

When I come here and start saying.."Hey look at my new products and how great they are" and start posting flow numbers and talking about how much power you're going to make you may have a point. I've been through the forum, I've seen it done, yet I haven't heard you or anyone else complain about it. Not the first time I had to comment on two standards.

My diatribes and tangents are full of good information you may not agree with it, but I'll stand by my points all day long. I'm trying to put a little thought and consideration into these posts rather than just spew "go buy this". Trying to have a conversation stir some thought, I guess that is a crime.

And for your information if my PM box is any indication a lot more people appreciate the fact, then criticize me for it.

You'll know when I'm selling, and this isn't it.

The only reason this is described as a "train wreck" by a couple people is that I did not fall in line and say "go buy an Air Gap".

Well, Edelbrock makes a great product, and go buy one.

 

[john@BMP]

To the OP, I asked the same question a long time ago and everybody said the Edelbrock Dual Plane Air Gap intake. A guy even showed me a youtube video of a PROFFESIONAL test it up againt the regular rpm series and the victor jr, and it showed to be the best. Thats what i orderd and thats what im going with on my mild to high performance daily driver.

Sorry i didn't go along with this train wreck asking for the combo and a milkshake or my vote for prom queen l

Another guy who thinks side by side tests have any meaning. After all, if it's on YouTube it must be true.

Again, nothing was proven, yet, you think it was. Therein lies the issue.

 

[Highway Star]

Weiand: China
Edelbrock: some China/some USA
GMPP:?
Professional Products: China
Procomp: China
AFR:?
Dart:?
TFS:?
Summit:China
Jegs:China


Amiright?

 

[Mikeys69]

What exactly did I say to CrazyDavey, I must have missed it.

I explained why I am here. Right now I am participating in conversation. I have not said "buy my junk" anywhere in this thread. IN FACT I DON'T EVEN HAVE A PRODUCT THAT FITS THE OP'S CRITERIA so I'm not so sure how I can be considered "selling" anything. I enjoy talking about this stuff, and purposely picked a thread where I can not be accused of selling.

When I come here and start saying.."Hey look at my new products and how great they are" and start posting flow numbers and talking about how much power you're going to make you may have a point. I've been through the forum, I've seen it done, yet I haven't heard you or anyone else complain about it. Not the first time I had to comment on two standards.

My diatribes and tangents are full of good information you may not agree with it, but I'll stand by my points all day long. I'm trying to put a little thought and consideration into these posts rather than just spew "go buy this". Trying to have a conversation stir some thought, I guess that is a crime.

And for your information if my PM box is any indication a lot more people appreciate the fact, then criticize me for it.

You'll know when I'm selling, and this isn't it.

The only reason this is described as a "train wreck" by a couple people is that I did not fall in line and say "go buy an Air Gap".

Well, Edelbrock makes a great product, and go buy one.

No...I said it was a train wreck because the thread got so far off topic.