All very well. But I don't have the kind of cash your phone caller has, I don't feel one bit sorry for him. We/I poor people are playing around in a hobby we love and can barely afford. So we seek advice to make each dollar count. Carbon fiber doors etc...Give me a brake.

Bye the way Chris great job :thumbsup:

 

Jeez Mikey, you don't even know know the guy and pass judgment

 

Just goes to show... spending cubic $$$ on your motor is no guarantee of a "perfect" build; it's just your ticket to a lottery with better odds. There's no substitute for checking and understanding every detail, every decision, every trade-off.

 

This I don't agree with at all. Just because the guy has the money to build a high end car doesn't make him any different from you or me. Envy isn't a positive thing in life.

Every dog has it's day, the builder clearly made a major mistake. I've made a few but understand the point of the thread. Most of the time, it's operator error.

 

I guess I am posting this to say I am glad the board has a Wolfy, a CNC, a 3V, and the rest of you that bring good solid tech and guidance to the board.

I'm grateful people on the board, like Chris, are willing to help out people like me who are just hobbyists. There are a lot of venders or shops who won't help or share their knowledge unless you're handing over a big check.

 

What they said!!!!

 

they cracked cause he drove the car on the street to get it in his trailer....lol

 

the dog ate my lifters.....

 

BBC is far from my field.
i am glad we have guys here in the know that are willing to share.
posted by CStraub:
"I guess I am posting this to say I am glad the board has a Wolfy, a CNC, a 3V, and the rest of you that bring good solid tech and guidance to the board."

i agree.


i feel for the guy.
he hired someone to do a professional job and it wasnt done well?

isnt that the reason to hire a professional when it concerns something you are not well versed in?

i personally appreciate, and don't mind paying for, competence.

 

First off, eventhough that guy and his $40k piece was misguided, he is VERY lucky that he caught the lifters in time, without trashing such an expensive engine.

Second, we here should feel lucky to have someone like Chris on the board - because I honestly feel like he spent the same amount of time and dedication to service in dealing with me and my puny little 468" hyd roller cam, '69 Chevy truck motor as he did with this guy and his uber $$$, all aluminum, carbon fiber race piece.

Thanks to Chris and all the rest of you guys that REALLY know your $#!t!!!

 

grudge racer-never mind, they have destroyed a few sites with their BS
the trouble in this sport, you dont know your getting wrong advice untill the part fails
too many book readers on the tech lines, wonder when they will be sent overseas

 

I will edit it but is a Match Race car of some notiriety as it is not your common "ride".

 

The builder was probably doing R&D on the customers dime.

 

The lifter failed but it was set up to fail.

The customer was willing to do whatever it took to make this thing run, thats what gets me why not put the customer in the correct parts.

I hate do overs.

 

I don't think Chris started this thread to start bashing anyone's financial success. None of us know how the customer came by his dollars, quite possibly he started with nothing and worked his ass off to finally enjoy a life long dream. Carbon fiber doors may be necessary to compete at the level he is involved in. John Force doesn't build his motors, he pays professionals to do it right...maybe this customer did too....or thought he did.....

Good information Chris, make sure I don't do something like that....

 

He has a lifter that is cracked in one of the forks. After a few questions my interest is peaked as I know the mfg of these lifters don't make anything like this. So we go over the build:
15 to 1 480 CID engine, 8200 shift point, 8600 rpm through the traps, near .900" lift with an all Ti valved head with get this 420# seat pressure on a .842" Lifter, yes that is right .842"

I call the mfg to find out if they built a custom set and to my amazement they did. I told them the particulars on the engine and they said no way in hell should that .842 lifter be used, minimum they need .903".

I asked him did you not want to spend the $500 to have the block bored for .903 lifters?

Chris, since I've never used a roller cam, I have some general questions ....

I'm curious, did these lifters failed specifically because they were too small in diameter, or because of the spring pressure was too severe ???

Are solid roller cams any "harder on lifters" in general, than a similarly sized hydraulic roller cam, with similar spring pressures ?? thanks.

 

In the last 10 years we have learned quite a bit. GM going to the larger cam size in the LS1 has helped with valvetrain stabilization. The large cam in this engine actually prolonged the life of the lifters.

Spring pressure was the main culprit. Why 420# on the seat on this I have no idea. I feel it was a shoot from the hip guess more so then an educated recommendation. In this case which is few and far between the customer would have spent whatever to make the engine right, so why risk it. The company has now lost a customer over this and being a well recognized ride lost some good PR and marketing.

Hyd roller have built in "shocks". They oil absorbs quite a bit. A solid roller will give you good life expectency if set up properly. In this case this engine was doomed from the beginning.

 

Thanks for you honesty in things Chris. Some people look at the "job security" thing rather than trying to help and be truthful. Also, you forgot your name when you mentioned Mike, Carl, Tom, and i'll also add Scott Foxwell.

Shawn

 

I thought that sounded high but didn't know thanks for that... Ous i want to say was in the 325-350 seat....

 

Lets try to focus on the education that Chris is providing. The owner and his financial situation is irrelevant. We all need to be wary of the advice offered by sales driven resources(?).
It's only after the individuals like those mentioned above have demonstrated their competence and share their experience that we can take comfort with their information. We are lucky to have these individuals frequenting this Site and sharing their knowledge.:yes:

Leave the discussion on the poor owner out of this thread.

 

Kudos to Chris Straub for being helpful.


From building a motor to painting your car to cutting your hair, if you pay somebody to do it right - and they don't - it's the customer's fault for not doing it himself? I don't think so.

 

Just about all our solid roller engines are .903 lifters as reliabilty is key, And also making sure the clearance is where its suppose to be is very important!!!

 

Just about all our solid roller engines are .903 lifters as reliabilty is key,
And also making sure the clearance is where its suppose to be is very important !!!

w/the particulars on the engine, they said no way in hell should that .842 lifter be used, minimum they need .903"
................. Spend the $500 to have the block bored for .903 lifters .......

Just out of curiousity,
would using .903 lifters be advised, for most high-powered hydraulic roller cammed engines, or would that be overkill ??

 

Morel will be the only one with a .903" hyd roller lifter available to my knowledge. It hopefully will be out in December.

 

Well John, thanks for sharing but as my Daddy told me: "if you don't have anything good to say keep your mouth shut."

 

Well John, thanks for sharing but as my Daddy told me: "if you don't have anything good to say keep your mouth shut."

This is not a technically oriented post.........lets just keep this thread technical shall we???

 

Why Lifters fail. . . .

Because they have needle bearings??
:beers:

 

 

Stop now kiddies. Lets get back to the point of the thread. Last warning.

 

Off topic............lets talk about lifters...........

 

One more time on the soap box... We cant all know everything. Sometimes we think we do, but we dont. I'll be the first to admit Ive been guilty of it. I, or we, might think we have the answer(with very good reason sometimes) til somebody truly proves us wrong. It happens. I did it....I'll do it again, and so will you.

For the guy that was the subject of this thread that Chris talked about....even though it sounds like he paid for most work to be done.....thats pretty much a non point. Even if he built the entire car with his own two hands.....rest assured there was at least one thing he wasnt an absolute expert on. Could be the larger lifter was the one and only thing he wasnt familiar with considering all he might know.

So whether he built it, or bought it....he would not have know either way. And it woulda been the downfall either way. This could happen to any of us with any "component" of a build that were not totally sure about. The story was more about how and why it happened so that we can all be more informed.

I spent the afternoon today pulling a turbo 400, and reinstalling outside in the rain due to some unfortunate circumstances. Its done, but TRUST ME i woulda rather paid somebody if money was no object and those were my only two options.