What you need to worry about is not the Federal EPA, but the California version of it. These people are the ones that pushed the very strict emissions standards you all just passed that will make large vehicles unavailable at any price (if nothing changes between now and then). Find out what the California version of the EPA is and find a knowledgable person to answer your questions. Good Luck. David Selko

 

We have heard that you can spray 12 square feet in your garage/driveway/patio/yard.

Because we live in a gated/guarded community of 600+ homes with CC&Rs, it makes it difficult to do much of anything.

When we sprayed the first few applications of PPG Epoxy Primer, we made our own spray booth with plastic, and had box fans venting the area and the booth.

One of the homeowners knocked on the garage door, and said if he caught us again, he would turn us into the EPA, which is supposed to be a $3,500.00 fine.

Rented a corner of a body shop for 3 months to complete the body work and priming.

Have sprayed the primer for the dash, a fender, the hood, and a few misc. parts since then at home.

Hope this helps a little.


------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi.

 

I work for the Cal EPA, and I'll be dropping by your place often

Actually, I am not positive, but I just bought some paint (in June), and the store didn't say anything...

I have been told that as a hobbiest, you are not regulated (except disposal!!!)... I think you can even use paints with a higher VOC than a shop uses...

I had over spray everywhere, and neighbors stopping by... Nobody complained... yet...


I think these environmental whackos are ridiculous... I can see shops, etc, but someone that sprays maybe a 1/2 gallon a year, or even one whole car... I mean come on, you already make the paint companies reformulate...


Hilljack,
have you checked in the "cruisin" forum about our (Sac Chevelles) upcoming BBQ in Rocklin this Saturday?

------------------
"Once you go RAT, you never go back..."
TC #1366
Tony
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Quik66.jpg
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/eng7.jpg

 

I really hope MartinSr sees this topic, as he has very strong views regarding this, AND he lives in California.

Putting aside the fact that you are in Cali and have to deal with the EPA MUCH more than anybody else- which does SUCK, Why should your neighbors have to "smell" your hobby? ALso, what type of paint are you going to spray? Keep in mind that some of these paints are harmful to the environment when sprayed outside, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY extremely harmful to pets and humans who may or may not have respiratory illnesses and who obviously will not have the protection from the vapors they need. THe catalyzed stuff contains isocynates, which is a distant relative of cyanide. Sorry to say it, but if I was your neighbor and had kids, pets, or elderly people around me, I'd call the EPA or whoever is out there. Small jobs- try and do it when no ones around. Bigger Jobs.....?

Do you know anybody who is in the military, or were you in the military? If so ask them if you can go out on base and use the auto body hobby shop. Most of these are pro quality facilities, and are equipped to spray damn near ANYTHING! Its DIRT CHEAP to use those facilities in lieu of paying a steep fine to the EPA. Heck, its DIRT CHEAP PERIOD to use those facilities. Otherwise, it might be smart to look for something like lvmaxx did.

Oh yeah- If you are in your garage doing other sorts of repair work that is not causing a lot of noise and smell, I say continue to do it, or F*** 'EM. YOU pay the mortgage, not them. You can do whatever you want in YOUR OWN HOUSE as long as you are not disturbing anybody- ie. SMELLS or SOUNDS. Sounds within reason, of course- Checking the timing on a Blown BBC at 3:00 in the morning might be a tad excessive

[This message has been edited by JU87 (edited 08-27-2002).]

 

Well I checked with the EPA and the Air Quality Board and it appears there are no regulations that would be violated. Except that no major auto repair of any kind is allowed, but no fines above and beyond for painting.

I don't want to harm anyone either. That's why I'm doing my homework.

John

 

Someone define "major auto repair" for this (happily) non-californian. SO, you guys can't even work on your cars in your OWN GARAGE? Or is it more of a not in your DRIVEWAY type thing?

------------------
Eric Taylor
72 Malibu 350
68 SS396 basket case

[This message has been edited by gasoline_fiend (edited 08-27-2002).]

 

There is a place is South Sacramento that rents their booth reasonably (I think about $75 for 5 hours,) but don't quote me. I will get the info if you are interested.

LB

 

Basically we are only allowed to change spark plugs, tires and oil. That's it! Also only one non running car is allowed and has to be in the garage.

John

 

When are you people going to get it through your heads. You don't own anything, you only rent from the goverment.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hilljack2:
Basically we are only allowed to change spark plugs, tires and oil. That's it! Also only one non running car is allowed and has to be in the garage.

John<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John - that has to be a very local (ccr's) thing. All of Sac isn't that regulated. Start here www.saccounty.net/portal/community/citiesinthecounty.htm for lots of good info!!

------------------
...Dennis
The '69 & the '96
Team Camaro
Camaros Limited

 

I used to paint cars at home and I had some sneaky ideas of how to get away with it. Paint when the neighbors are sleeping. Paint when it's raining out. The rain knocks alot of the fumes and solids out. I know that your not supposed to paint in the humid conditions but here in Houston it's always humid and I didn't have much trouble with paint blushing. Also, I had thoughts about this but never did it, was to rig up a water hose to mist the exhaust air from the fan. I figured it would knock overspray and alot of the fumes out. Also, don't let them (neighbors) see what you are doing if at all possible. Keep the car in the garage till it's done.

 

Geez, I'm not going to college on the West Cost like I was thinking of...

I don't see how it's within the Constitution for anyone to be able to tell you what you can/cannot do in your own garage, as long as your aren't makine a whole lot of noise..

Is it true it's illegal out there to replace a working exaust system?

Nutcases, all of them...The people making those envirnomental rules have no clue.

 

It really depends on where you live. If you live in middleclass levittown style suburbia you arent in any trouble.. if you live in a highclass neighborhood/gated community you're in for a problem. My neighbor worked on cars for over 40 years before his death, had non-ops and projects everywhere all over his backyard, garage, lawn, side of house and the only thing that the city made sure was that his cars that were parked on the street were moved every 3 days. They were fine with whatever else went on(major repair work, frame offs, painting, you name it). I live in a 50 year old town in so cal outside of long beach. All middleclass housing.

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Dave
72 Chevelle 350
El Velle

 

Three evil words - Home Owners Associations

Ive looked at a couple of places to buy but they had stipulation after stipulation. Cant even change the color of your front door without approval.

"I gotttta get ouuuuut of this plaaace....if its the laaast thing I evvvver doooo....I gotttta get ouuuut of this place..cause Chevellllle theres a betterrrr place....for me and you"

------------------
'70 SS 396
4spd, 4.10's and a smile
TC# 1341
ACES# 05388
Beaux
The SS
The Rat- Plans for a 496 in the works.
Interior

Life is a gateway drug that leads to Chevelle addiction.

[This message has been edited by Midnight Marauder (edited 08-28-2002).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Midnight Marauder:
Three evil words - Home Owners Associations
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm a member of our Homeowner's Association. We all get an equal voice in our neighborhood. Each "filing" within the subdivision has it's own restrictions.

For example: If I lived in a filing that connects to our golf course, I wouldn't be able to do major work to the car. But in my filing I can pretty much do what I want to as long as it doesn't bother the neighbors.

We're supposed to get a permit to build a fence, but that's only enforced in the areas near the golf course. We're not supposed to have any "out-buildings" (sheds, etc), but most of my neighbors have them.

It's a general understanding that "if you stay out of my business, I'll stay out of yours". Everyone knows that if they call me on a restriction, I'll call everyone else on their restrictions. It's the old "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" philosophy. No one wants to start that kind of war on my street.

We have some real estate agents that get upset because some snobs won't buy a home next door to someone who has an out-building. They try to make a big deal of it at the SHA meetings. But the rest of us prefer that someone that snooty find another street to live on. There are plenty of places where snobs fit in just fine.

What I'm trying to say is: "Get involved locally." You'll be amazed at how much people will listen to and respect you if you're known as an involved citizen.

That's the beauty of laws in the U.S. They're changeable.

------------------
My Web Page (updated 06-21-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino, 357, L31 Vortec heads, 700R4,
8.2 10-bolt, 3.55 gears, Auburn Pro Posi.

[This message has been edited by cjlandry (edited 08-28-2002).]

 

I've lived in the same house now for almost 29 years in a middle class neighborhood. It's not a subdivision, but an old neighborhood where every house is different and from a different era. The guy who lives across the street from me is a retired truck mechanic who built his brick home himself in 1952! He bought the entire block at that time and still owns about an acre. No one here complains about work on cars because almost EVERYONE in the neighborhood does it! Most of the homes were built on a 3/4 acre or more, so there's plenty of room between us. On my block, there are only 4 houses. My kind of neighborhood! In the summer, there's quite a bit of "car work" going on outside.

------------------
MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
580,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html

 

Yeah those HOA and CCRs suck... I am glad there's not too many near me... Although some are good... I guess it depends on your point of view...

There was one case in the news here lately where some people wanted to get their roof replaced, and they needed a permit... BUT, they couldn't get the permit because their house was yellow (no BS). According to the HOA, Yellow was not an approved color, so they were holding up the roofing permit... Now thats BS...

I think Jumper was asking about the constitutionality of it all... after all its your garage and property, but can you keep all the toxic/noxtious odors and noises and chemicals solely on your property ? Including the ground water and soil (which often, most people only have limited rights to)?

I agree, late night noise, or major paint "fog" isn't a good idea, but for the hobbiest that is doing his own car, I think its okay, just let your neighbors know... Now, if you are painting more than one a year (or really every couple of years),then I think you have gone a little more toward a business, and should be regulated...

LB,
whats the name of that place in South Sac?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Is it true it's illegal out there to replace a working exaust system?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never heard that before... Sure California might be a little more restrictive, but its nothing like that... Its mainly the newer subdivisions... You go through some old neighborhoods, with dead lawns, weeds 4-feet high, and several beat up cars sitting in the front yard, and then you build a new neighborhood so you place stipulations on the new residences, to keep them from looking like crap... Most people welcome it. Heck, I do within reason... You can still go into the old areas, or out of town and do most anything you want...

[This message has been edited by 1966_L78 (edited 08-29-2002).]

 

Yeah it's true guy's. Call the city nuisance line. The only thing that is permitted verbatim is oil changes, spark plugs and changing a tire. Nothing else. Now this stuff is not enforced unless the neighbor complains.

Most don't and a lot of people get away with it. Mine is on the snooty side and I've already been inspected, once because the basketball hoop was blocking the sidewalk. Now my buddy 2 miles away painted his car in the front yard.

L78 is that cruise this weekend?

John

 

The Place is called Body Time 3210 B 51st Avenue, Sacramento PH 392-5000. They have a Viking booth that looked pretty good when I looked at it. My flyer is old but they wanted $75 for 5 hours of Booth and 1 hose, and they will supply the masking paper and tape for $20. Additional hours @$10hr. I think it is a fair deal and defiantly worth the money for the final paint and clear coats considering how much just the materials cost… Let me know how it works out.

LB

 

Okay dudes heres the bomb! ROP has a free booth if you sign up for the auto shop class which is free.

 

I found this info at the attached website. I realize that it's for the SCAQMD but you're still in California so how much different could it be? Doesn't sound like fun if you get caught! Pay attention to the size of the fine. WOW!!!
http://www.d-angelopbe.com/scaqmd_nov.htm

NOTICES OF VIOLATION


What is a Notice of Violation?
What happens if I receive a Notice of Violation?
Mutual Settlement Agreement Program
Civil Prosecution
Criminal Prosecution
AQMD Enforcement Authority
Injunctions
For More Information
What is a Notice of Violation?

A Notice of Violation is a written "ticket" informing a business that it has failed to comply with an AQMD rule or permit, or a state air pollution regulation.

If you receive a Notice of Violation, it means you are operating in violation of the law. Under the law, each day or part of a day that you are in violation is a separate violation, so it is in your best interest to act immediately to solve your compliance problem.

According to the California Health and Safety Code, penalties in the worst cases can be up to $50,000 per day per violation and may include criminal sanctions. Actual penalties tend to be far less, depending on the circumstances, such as how bad the violation was, whether the business owner knew the law was being broken, and whether anyone was hurt.

If you need to continue operating equipment that is in violation, you must obtain a variance. The variance is an administrative order that allows a company to continue operating without penalties while it takes appropriate steps to meet air pollution control requirements. Only the AQMD Hearing Board can grant a variance.


What happens if I receive a Notice of Violation?

Once a Notice of Violation is issued to a business, it is forwarded to AQMD's District Prosecutor for handling. Staff from that office will review your case. Several factors determine whether a violation is handled as a civil case by AQMD or referred for review as a potential criminal case to a law enforcement agency such as the county District Attorney. Among these factors are the:

· Extent of harm caused by the violation
· Type and length of the violation
· Intent that led to the violation and
· Frequency of past violations.

Mutual Settlement Agreement Program

Cases involving lesser offenses or companies with no prior violations are usually handled under AQMD's Mutual Settlement Agreement Program. Under this program, you and AQMD agree on the actions you must take to comply with clean air rules and the penalty for your violation. This settlement is reached without involving attorneys or the courts.

If your case is considered appropriate for this program, you will receive a letter or phone call from an investigator in AQMD's District Prosecutor offering to settle your violation. Settlement terms usually call for a penalty payment and written proof of current compliance.

If you want to discuss your case, the investigator's name and telephone number is included in the initial settlement letter.

Be prepared to describe anything about the violation that you believe AQMD should know in considering your case. For example, you may want to tell the investigator about the condition of your equipment, whether the emissions were caused by an equipment breakdown, and whether you have current AQMD permits. Knowing the relevant facts will help the investigator resolve your case fairly.

When you receive your letter, be sure to respond in writing by the date indicated to avoid further legal action. If the Mutual Settlement Agreement Program fails to result in a settlement, your Notice of Violation will be handled under the procedures for Civil Prosecution.

CIVIL PROSECUTION

If your violation notice is handled under this option, your case will be reviewed by an attorney from the District Prosecutor's Office. You will receive a "pre-suit" letter from the attorney, asking for information about your case.

Either you or your attorney should contact the AQMD attorney named in the letter to discuss your case. You must reply by the date indicated in the letter.

Explain to AQMD's prosecuting attorney anything related to the violation that you believe AQMD should know in considering your case and in negotiating settlement terms.

If you fail to respond by the date indicated in the initial letter, the AQMD prosecutor will file a lawsuit-- a civil complaint-- taking you to court. You will be served a copy of the complaint and a summons requiring you to file a written response with the court within 30 calendar days.

After the complaint is filed, the "discovery process" begins. During this process, both sides work to specify the main issues in the case. Written questions may be posed to you or your attorney. Individuals can be questioned under oath. The court requires that both sides appear at hearings to discuss a possible settlement.

If an agreement cannot be reached during these hearings, a trial date is set. If as a result of the trial a judge finds that you did violate AQMD rules, the court imposes a fine. The maximum civil penalty is $50,000 per day per violation.

CRIMINAL PROSECUTION

If AQMD's District Prosecutor determines that criminal prosecution may be necessary, the case will be referred to the appropriate law enforcement agency, such as the county District Attorney. That agency will determine whether or not criminal prosecution is warranted.

Anyone undergoing a criminal prosecution can expect to be served with an arraignment letter, an arrest warrant or, in a case involving corporations, a summons.

Criminal prosecution of a violation takes into account serious factors such as the type of pollutant(s) emitted, the intent of the person(s) cited, endangerment of public health, and any past record of violating AQMD rules or regulations.

Penalties can be substantial under criminal prosecution: The maximum sentence is a $50,000 fine and/or one year in jail for each day in violation of a given rule or regulation.

AQMD ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY

AQMD's enforcement authority for civil penalties can be found in the California Health and Safety Code Civil Penalties Sections 42402, 42402.1, 42402.2, 42402.3, and California Health and Safety Code Criminal Penalties Sections 42400, 42400.1, 42400.2, and 42400.3.

INJUNCTIONS

AQMD has the authority to seek an injunction. A mandatory injunction is a court order compelling a person and/or company to do a certain thing. A prohibitory injunction is a court order compelling a person and/or company to refrain from doing a certain thing. Injunctions, which can include shutting down a business, are sought only in extraordinary cases to stop continuing violations or to prevent serious violations from occurring.



FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT

District Prosecutor's Office
South Coast Air Quality
Management District
21865 E. Copley Drive
Diamond Bar CA 91765
(909) 396-3400

 

My friend is a Los Angeles City fire captain and he says its a big violation.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lance-w:
CLIP
What is a Notice of Violation?

A Notice of Violation is a written "ticket" informing a business<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lance
Only I problem I see with what you posted is that it is for businesses.

Man am I glad I don't live in CA!

------------------
J.J. Fig
MCC member #256
Maryland Chevelle Club
Dad's 69 SS
Mom's 71 SS Convertible

 

Yep it's for businesses. Something that they(ya know big brother) regulate. I've talked to the folks at the paint stores and they ALL say that if you don't have an approved booth and are a business that's licensed for the paint that your spraying your in violation. Usually they're exact verbage goes something like this "You can't spray anything as a non-professional without being in violation". California sucks in some ways but the weather is awesome. I can work outside in the middle of winter in a t-shirt and I can work outside in summer without melting from the humidity. As always the good and the bad. I geuss to sum it up ... Make sure you get along with your neighbors!

 

That's for a biz that's breaking the law, I don't think it applies to hobbyists.


Do you have any specifics for home users?

John