[dreis454]

I agree this gentleman is badly mistaken.
I have posted this before, I have a late Balt. built, documented 69 SS that does NOT have the famous "L" on the trim tag. I'm not sure what it means but my car doesn't seem to follow that rule.

I own a documented 'W' code '71 SS 454 & it only has a 'D' on the tag.
I figured it meant 'Dan'.

 

[blue55]

So if an "SS" car is being sold without an engine it's no lionger an "SS"? I don't get it.

 

[69396ss]

You can call it whatever you want, but it is no longer an original example of an SS Chevelle.

If you replace the engine, it is a modified car, and a premium can no longer be given for it's originality, as with a Clone, value is now placed on quality and desirable colors and options.

I guess I don't understand why this is even debatable to the extent it is.

But everybody is entitled to "call them as they see them".

 

[dreis454]

Maybe the wording is the issue............
you are saying 'Original SS'

I am saying SS Chevelle, noting that originality is gone with the engine.

 

[LS7]

I agree wholeheartedly with originality and price recognition for the matching numbers car.

To state a factory RPO Z25 is no longer an SS because it's RPO L35, 34, 78 motor is gone is a debate that will probably never die, been there and done that already with Greg. :thumbsup:

Fortunately for the people who own NOM SS cars the market tends to agree with them more often than not, and on an apples to apples comparison on build quality, the selling price for a car with real docs. will reflect that IMHO.

 

[Uly49]

John,
I am new to your forums as I stated last week when the whole re-stamp issue came up with the LS6 I purchased. You offered to help me make a determination and I appreciate the interest. But to try and say a clone somehow has similar pedigree to a car with a new engine is a ridiculous statement. I may not have been on your site for very long but I have a multitude of cars and some have the original engines and some don't. Everyone recognizes that these engines were destroyed back "In the Day" and while an original engine is certainly preferred, this idea that without it it is on par with a clone is again patently absurd and it really makes me wonder about your motives. My '70 Hemi Challenger has a factory replacement engine and while I wish it had the original engine the fact that it doesn't had no relation to the amount I could sell it for and have been offered. Do you think for one minute I could build a '70 Hemi Challenger clone and have offers of over $200,000.00--? I am all about honesty and integrity and not the jealous rantings of someone who happened to build a nice clone and now wants everyone to believe it is on par with a true LS6....childish to say the least.
Uly

 

[spaceace77084]

In my opinion, once an SS it will always be an SS. If the engine was replaced it becomes a NON Numbers Matching SS car.


:beers:

 

[Bunz-T]

Well That dead horse is back again. Just a different stable.

This argument is about like rolling dice over the phone......How do you tell who wins.

 

[bobm396]

In 1979 I purchased a matching ## 71SS 454. Motor was over heating so I removed it and installed a 396 while I was rebuilding the 454. By definition it went from being an SS to a clone. after the engine was rebuilt and reinstalled I quess it then became an SS again. Replaced the non cowl induction hood with a cowl ind. hood. ooops clone again. Guess what, before I sold the car I reinstalled the original hood. SS again. Do you have time to listen about the Craiger rims, L60 Tires. Bench seat to bucket seat then back again.
This car went from being an SS to a clone and back about 25 times. Guess what, It was born an SS and when it went to metal scrap yard it died an SS.
You want to talk about a clone, Ill show you pictures of a brown 70 Malibu I purchased for $200.00 that ended up being a really nice SS back in the 80s. To me thats the definition of a real clone.

 

[bigskycountry]

I just love these type of posts To be, or not to be a Super Sport......what was the question?

 

[sg5492]

In my opinion, once an SS it will always be an SS. If the engine was replaced it becomes a NON Numbers Matching SS car.


:beers:

:yes: I think you hit it on the head.

 

[67RAT]

so its not an ss if you replace the engine? If the build sheets in it somewhere and it has a replacement engine, its still an ss in my book. Not exactly a clone.

yea,thats what I was thinking,I dont care if you have to flintstone it,if its a true ss ,although not original enngine-is it not a SS car?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[69396ss]

, this idea that without it it is on par with a clone is again patently absurd and it really makes me wonder about your motives. My '70 Hemi Challenger has a factory replacement engine and while I wish it had the original engine the fact that it doesn't had no relation to the amount I could sell it for and have been offered. Do you think for one minute I could build a '70 Hemi Challenger clone and have offers of over $200,000.00--? I am all about honesty and integrity and not the jealous rantings of someone who happened to build a nice clone and now wants everyone to believe it is on par with a true LS6....childish to say the least.
Uly

In regards to your NOM Hemi Challenger, if you read my definition closer you'll see I mentioned the exceptions of Race History, or rare options. I believe a hemi Challenger would fall into that exception. We're discussing Base model SS Chevelles, which are a dime a dozen in regards to quantity built in comparison to documented Hemi's.

Your welcome for my attempt to help by the way, apperantly the photos I sent, and an explanation of correct Fonts in an attempt to help you with your recent LS6 purchase wasn't worth a simple "thanks" after i sent them to you.

Instead, it warrents an attack because you disagree with my opinion and that defines "childish" in every respect in and of itself.

My clone has long been sold so I have no motives whatsoever with my opinions.

My opinions are mine, as everyone is entitled, and to call them rediculous, absurd, jeolous, rantings simply because you don't agree with them speaks volumes for your character. Especially when coupled with your lack of a simple courtesy to respond to an unselfish attempt on my part in helping you determine if the LS6 you bought had original Font stampings. (read Dreis454's response if you need to learn how a gentleman disagrees with another man's opinion)

Welcome to Team Chevelle, with that attitude I'm sure your posts will be entertaining to say the least.

 

[Bunz-T]

John I am now going to have to ask that you use both hands to beat on this horse.:boxing:

 

[RedAllison]

You can call it whatever you want, but it is no longer an original example of an SS Chevelle. I hope you get help for your substance addiction! :sad:

If you replace the engine, it is a modified car, and a premium can no longer be given for it's originality, as with a Clone, value is now placed on quality and desirable colors and options. Again, I hope you get the help you need. Are you saying a REAL 454 car with not the original motor BUT in fact a correct "date coded" 454 in it wouldn't be worth anymore or anymore desirable too a D code that had been faked up? (Assume both cars are otherwise alike in condition, colors, options etc!)

I guess I don't understand why this is even debatable to the extent it is. Of course you don't because you are to busy trying to convince the world why Fakes are as desirable and valuable as the REAL DEALS!!! :boring:

But everybody is entitled to "call them as they see them".

RA

69, by YOUR own logic a Yenko/Copo car minus it's engine is worth no more no desired anymore by the market than the same versions that were born 6cyls...

 

[Uly49]

You are absolutely right, you were offering to help me and I do appreciate it very much. Not much class on my part and I will try to bring more positive comments to the boards in the future. My recent dealings involving some of these matters should not reflect negatively on anyone other than those I am dealing with directly.
Regards, Scott

 

[Greg]

I am saying SS Chevelle, noting that originality is gone with the engine.

As I said before, regardless of how you try to spin it or slice it, there is no way that a '69 Chevelle with an '82 pick-up truck engine in it is a "real deal" Chevelle SS 396. Nor is a '70 Chevelle SS 454 LS-6 the "real deal" if it has a 350 in it, or a 383 stroker in it, or a 6 cylinder in it, etc.

Imagine this...
You call up your friend Nick on the phone and tell him..."Hey man, I just got a 1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS-6. This car is the "real deal." "I'm on my way over now to show it to you."

When you arrive, Nick comes out the door, with two cold beers in his hands, and meets you in the driveway as you're pulling in.
He says..."Hey, cool car man. The body's not bad and the interior looks good. Pop the hood."

You pop the hood as Nick pops the top on his beer and takes a couple of refreshing sips.
When the hood is open, Nick looks in and sees a 6 cylinder.
He says..."Hey, where's the LS-6 454?"

You say..."Oh, that's long gone. The previous owner replaced it with this 6 cylinder from out of a '78 Nova.
But hey, this is the "real deal."

You're friend Nick is gonna look at you like a dog at a new dish.

Now, you'd probably say to me..."Well, sure Greg, if I have a 6 cyclinder in it then it's a joke and not a "real deal" LS-6."
"If I took my LS-6 to a car show and popped the hood to reveal a 6 cyclinder '78 Nova engine, then sure, the car would have no legitimacy and people would have a good, hearty, knee slapping laugh when the hood was opened."

"But...if I put a 350 in it, then it becomes closer to being the "real deal." "Or if I get a 396 for it then it becomes real close to being the "real deal."
In fact, if I put a 454 in it from out of an '82 pick-up truck, then I will pretty much have the "real deal," except with an engine that's not original."

In effect, what you're saying then, is the closer you "clone" it to how it "was," the closer you are to having the "real deal."
And, as I've said, that dog's not gonna hunt.

In the above scenario, what you would have is a car that used to be a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6. A car that has the heritage of having left the factory as a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6, but now it is no longer the "real deal."

In such a scenario, build quality becomes paramount, because the car is no longer a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6 and never will be.
The best you can do is to get it as close as you can to representing what it was when it left the factory.

In effect, that's not much different than "cloning."
Not the same thing, but certainly the same difference.

Regards,
-Greg

 

[Bisquit037]

As I said before, regardless of how you try to spin it or slice it, there is no way that a '69 Chevelle with an '82 pick-up truck engine in it is a "real deal" Chevelle SS 396. Nor is a '70 Chevelle SS 454 LS-6 the "real deal" if it has a 350 in it, or a 383 stroker in it, or a 6 cylinder in it, etc.

Imagine this...
You call up your friend Nick on the phone and tell him..."Hey man, I just got a 1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS-6. This car is the "real deal." "I'm on my way over now to show it to you."

When you arrive, Nick comes out the door, with two cold beers in his hands, and meets you in the driveway as you're pulling in.
He says..."Hey, cool car man. The body's not bad and the interior looks good. Pop the hood."

You pop the hood as Nick pops the top on his beer and takes a couple of refreshing sips.
When the hood is open, Nick looks in and sees a 6 cylinder.
He says..."Hey, where's the LS-6 454?"

You say..."Oh, that's long gone. The previous owner replaced it with this 6 cylinder from out of a '78 Nova.
But hey, this is the "real deal."

You're friend Nick is gonna look at you like a dog at a new dish.

Now, you'd probably say to me..."Well, sure Greg, if I have a 6 cyclinder in it then it's a joke and not a "real deal" LS-6."
"If I took my LS-6 to a car show and popped the hood to reveal a 6 cyclinder '78 Nova engine, then sure, the car would have no legitimacy and people would have a good, hearty, knee slapping laugh when the hood was opened."

"But...if I put a 350 in it, then it becomes closer to being the "real deal." "Or if I get a 396 for it then it becomes real close to being the "real deal."
In fact, if I put a 454 in it from out of an '82 pick-up truck, then I will pretty much have the "real deal," except with an engine that's not original."

In effect, what you're saying then, is the closer you "clone" it to how it "was," the closer you are to having the "real deal."
And, as I've said, that dog's not gonna hunt.

In the above scenario, what you would have is a car that used to be a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6. A car that has the heritage of having left the factory as a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6, but now it is no longer the "real deal."

In such a scenario, build quality becomes paramount, because the car is no longer a "real deal" SS 454 LS-6 and never will be.
The best you can do is to get it as close as you can to representing what it was when it left the factory.

In effect, that's not much different than "cloning."
Not the same thing, but certainly the same difference.

Regards,
-Greg

If a car is an SS it will always be an SS no matter how well your dog hunts or who's yard he ***** in...... period. It may not be numbers matching or exactly the way it rolled off the assembly line, but if the build sheet says it is an SS then that's exactly what she is. I continue to be amazed more and more every day at things like this, what is happening around here? This is a joke right? Do people really sit around dreaming up **** like this?

 

[RedAllison]

Greg if I read your post right you think like John (69396SS). (My sympathy's too your family!)

You guys are FULL of crap with that line of thinking.

1st in you and Johns defense we CAN say, YES YOU ARE CORRECT with respect too the cars no longer being MATCHING NUMBERS or FULLY CORRECT. No lying there.

BUT where you two are smoking the booty hairs is dismissing THE REST OF THE CARS simply because the original motors are no longer in them. So you're saying a 70 Hemi cuda chassis is worth NO MORE than a 340 cuda chassis? LOL try telling THAT too the market itself.

If you had two cars sitting out in your barn, one was a 70 Dcode car painted up 20 years ago and rebadged an SS. The other car WAS in fact a true W code car. Now BOTH cars are minus their engines and BOTH cars are in equal condition. WHICH ONE are folks gonna offer the most money for?

Your saying if I bought BOTH of them and dropped a date coded 454 into that Wcode car and another 454 engine in that Dcode car they would BOTH be worth EQUAL???

Deny the truth all you want, but that aint gonna change the market!!! :noway:
RA

 

[RedAllison]

If a car is an SS it will always be an SS no matter how well your dog hunts or who's yard he in...... period. It may not be numbers matching or exactly the way it rolled off the assembly line, but if the build sheet says it is an SS then that's exactly what she is. I continue to be amazed more and more every day at things like this, what is happening around here? This is a joke right? Do people really sit around dreaming up like this?

lol Billy, YES they DO dream that crap up because they HAVE TO convince THEMSELVES that their fakes are equal too the REAL cars in the markets eyes!!!
RA