What are the sweet specs to use on steering set up on my 72 ElCamino, I have wide low tires so I assume we want camber close to zero???? Maybe a smidge on the negative side? and have just added the adjustable upper A arms so camber & caster can be put where we want them.
Steering specs?
Dave Hopkins
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Joined
·
485 Posts
What are the sweet specs to use on steering set up on my 72 ElCamino, I have wide low tires so I assume we want camber close to zero???? Maybe a smidge on the negative side? and have just added the adjustable upper A arms so camber & caster can be put where we want them.
You NEVER-EVER want to run positive camber on an "A" body. The dynamic camber curve in bump will inherently push the tires positive anyway causing horrible handling.
The camber should be -.50 to -.75 on a street driven car. I used to run upwards of 9* caster, probably a bit much but with adjustable arms you might as well bump the caster to 5* or so.
The camber should be -.50 to -.75 on a street driven car. I used to run upwards of 9* caster, probably a bit much but with adjustable arms you might as well bump the caster to 5* or so.
To avoid pulling due to road crown you can run a little bit of cross caster... not cross camber.
Typically about .25 degrees of cross caster takes care of the pull due to road crown but I prefer to run even caster.
Put as much caster in it as you can, it will have a greater steering wheel "centering" effect and better high speed stability & tracking.
Dennis's recommendation of -.50 to -.75 degrees of camber is a good one for most people. Other guys like me prefer about -1.25 to -1.5 for street duty to save the outside edges of their front tires... but that's probably too extreme for 98% of the people out there.
Typically about .25 degrees of cross caster takes care of the pull due to road crown but I prefer to run even caster.
Put as much caster in it as you can, it will have a greater steering wheel "centering" effect and better high speed stability & tracking.
Dennis's recommendation of -.50 to -.75 degrees of camber is a good one for most people. Other guys like me prefer about -1.25 to -1.5 for street duty to save the outside edges of their front tires... but that's probably too extreme for 98% of the people out there.
Joined
·
485 Posts
Now I am getting confused when we talk negative camber that is tops tilted in, correct? So your saying you like more to save the outer edge of the tire?? tilted in would lift the load off the outer edge? BTW my tires are 9" wide and it had several degrees postive (out on top) and was killing the outside edges!
Joined
·
485 Posts
What kind of Toe In does this chassis like?
Joined
·
3,604 Posts
My own personal theory is that alignment specs can depend on driver and driver style...
If you pull lots of hard corners you will need more negative camber than if you do not. So with an A-body pull as much positive caster as you can get balanced on both sides and then add negative camber to taste.
Same with tire pressure, hard cornering will need more pressure.
But most of all when running wide tires on an A-body either expect the outside edges to get chewed, or get the SC&C Stage II front end kit to correct the front end camber gain issues.
If you pull lots of hard corners you will need more negative camber than if you do not. So with an A-body pull as much positive caster as you can get balanced on both sides and then add negative camber to taste.
Same with tire pressure, hard cornering will need more pressure.
But most of all when running wide tires on an A-body either expect the outside edges to get chewed, or get the SC&C Stage II front end kit to correct the front end camber gain issues.
Joined
·
485 Posts
Mine will not get aggresive use, I just want it to steer right & not kill the 9" tires.
So 5 to 9 degrees of caster, same amount both sides.
slight amount of camber, 1/2 to 1 degree??????
Toe in???? 1/8th to 1/4???
So 5 to 9 degrees of caster, same amount both sides.
slight amount of camber, 1/2 to 1 degree??????
Toe in???? 1/8th to 1/4???
Joined
·
3,604 Posts
Sorry Dave, I missed the adjustable arms portion of your first posting. Did you also to the tall ball joints with those? Reason I ask is that with wide tires, and this is compounded by low profiles, there is no way with the stock A-body front end to not kill the tires. As the suspension compresses the tire goes from negative camber to positive camber. So you are never really at the *no* camber condition needed for optimal tire life.
There is some benefit in positive caster to pull the top of the tire in as it is rotated for steering. Apart from generally being extreme, I believe this is what Dennis (aka sinned) was trying to do with his 9* of caster. Due to the minimal camber benefit, I would go with the 5* caster.
Now if you do not have the tall ball joints, you are probably going to need to increase tire pressures up front and run more negative camber. This is a kludge to try and balance the wear patterns. Natural wear is concentrated on the outer edge. Negative camber will add more wear on the inside edge and higher tire pressure more wear down the middle. You should need very little toe, probably about 1/8". These recommendations are biased towards tire life.
For performance you want as much of the tire on the ground as possible. But here again you have to compromise between emphasizing straight ahead traction or loaded cornering traction. The former will need less negative camber then the latter.
Hopefully that gives you some idea of what I am basing my prior comments about alignment depending on driver/driving style. After running through a set or two of tires and watching the wear patterns you can get an idea of where you need to make adjustments. For reference I am running about 3/4* negative camber and 2-3* of positive caster (all I could get) on my otherwise stock front end.
There is some benefit in positive caster to pull the top of the tire in as it is rotated for steering. Apart from generally being extreme, I believe this is what Dennis (aka sinned) was trying to do with his 9* of caster. Due to the minimal camber benefit, I would go with the 5* caster.
Now if you do not have the tall ball joints, you are probably going to need to increase tire pressures up front and run more negative camber. This is a kludge to try and balance the wear patterns. Natural wear is concentrated on the outer edge. Negative camber will add more wear on the inside edge and higher tire pressure more wear down the middle. You should need very little toe, probably about 1/8". These recommendations are biased towards tire life.
For performance you want as much of the tire on the ground as possible. But here again you have to compromise between emphasizing straight ahead traction or loaded cornering traction. The former will need less negative camber then the latter.
Hopefully that gives you some idea of what I am basing my prior comments about alignment depending on driver/driving style. After running through a set or two of tires and watching the wear patterns you can get an idea of where you need to make adjustments. For reference I am running about 3/4* negative camber and 2-3* of positive caster (all I could get) on my otherwise stock front end.
Joined
·
485 Posts
Steve
Thanks much, I am grasping what your saying, but have not meet tall ball joints, do you used these on the top? That is a scam to get longer spindle as the long part is below the ball/socket? That makes sence to me, who are the suppliers?
I have not drug this to an alinement shop yet so if that is what I want I would like to do it now.
Thanks much, I am grasping what your saying, but have not meet tall ball joints, do you used these on the top? That is a scam to get longer spindle as the long part is below the ball/socket? That makes sence to me, who are the suppliers?
I have not drug this to an alinement shop yet so if that is what I want I would like to do it now.
Joined
·
15,748 Posts
Howe Precision makes tall balljoints for both upper and lower, and I recommend purchasing them from SC&C (www.scandc.com) They are expensive, but worth every penny. :yes:
For a mild performance/street alignment, I like to run about 3/8* negative camber, 5* positive caster, and about 1/16" toe in. I don't run any cross-caster because I spend as much time in the fast-lane as the slow-lane, so there's no sense in compensating for the crown.
If I lived in an area with more curves, I'd probably run up to 3/4* negative camber.
For a mild performance/street alignment, I like to run about 3/8* negative camber, 5* positive caster, and about 1/16" toe in. I don't run any cross-caster because I spend as much time in the fast-lane as the slow-lane, so there's no sense in compensating for the crown.
If I lived in an area with more curves, I'd probably run up to 3/4* negative camber.
Joined
·
485 Posts
Hmm both upper and lower! So lower is obviously going to lower the car, either is going to improve the camber change as the suspension compresses. Upper is easy to install, lower is a press in?
If I do upper only is that enough to make a substantial improvment in the camber situation?
If I do upper only is that enough to make a substantial improvment in the camber situation?
Joined
·
485 Posts
I called Mark S at SC&C and ordered top & bottom talls. Will update when installed
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
