Yesterday i created a thread titled: Rarest of all 67 v8 chevelles 13211
after reading the responses to my original post i realized that there was alot of missing info. I did try and upload pics but my file sizes are too big. I am going to start an album and just put the link in my sig. Maybe I can bore you with another long post?
I love classic cars. i am lucky enough to work on restoration projects of all makes and models on a daily basis. i also have many professional auto restoration related customers that i can trade work with to significantly decrease the cost of anything i would need done. For example, today a customer came in who is a pretty prominent builder here in the OC area and offered to trade me a total rebuild of engine and tranny, repaint/finish to factory spec for some media blasting(my profession) on his panel truck, which at cost to cost comparison saves me over 50% on complete motor/tranny refinishing. I do know the value of a 300 is significantly lower than that of SS and Malibu's, however with all this info ....Do any of you see why i cant make this a profitable venture doing a 100% Numbers matching frame off restoration considering documentation?
POP
vin on frame to body to POP match
all major drivetrain date codes match whats stamped on POP
1st owners name whom i purchased car from on POP
Only equipment code on POP is 3 (PB, PS, AM radio)
every number has been checked, codes decoded using POP decoder on chevelles.com
COWL TAG
09D
67-13211 BF00023
TR 724 DD paint
30016 22 167
decoded with decoder found on chevelles.com:
09D-production date sept 22-28 1966
67-13211- 1967 chevelle 300 2door V8
BF00023- Fremont production number 00023
TR 724- medium blue bench interior
DD paint- nantucket blue metalic paint
30016- dealer order number
22 167-???
As i understand it dealers ordered SS and Malibus heavily optioned from the get go. This may explain why customer and dealer ordered optioned Fremont cars' factory tracking codes are impossible to decode as it would be particular to the one car and would not have a consecutive number after it, nor would it be anywhere close to matching production and Tracking numbers because a more sophisticated system would have been adapted to account for option packages. Remember how they added a digit in December? Thus as a hole, making it impossible to decode every Fremont tracking number because no pattern can be established, but leading me to believe it POSSIBLE for really early first production 13211 cars.
i know nobody knows for sure what the factory internal tracking or manifest number(as it is known on the build sheet). my first post only contained theory based on my perceived correlation of this tracking number and the production number of my vehicle. if it truly is #00023 overall or even just 23rd Fremont CA made of 001903, i believe it is possible to decode this number for all Fremont 13211 with very early production dates (if you agree that 09D is early enough production considering only 1903 units produced and my low Fremont number at BF00023), whether it improves my value or not. People needed to see the goods before they bought exactly what they wanted from the dealer, so the dealer would make a list of lets just say ten different 300 cars to have on their lot when opening sales day hit for model year 1967. All of these cars would have the exact same dealer order number (lot filling, first bulk order) in this case 30016, and only slightly different factory tracking numbers, in this case 22 167, because all initial dealer orders for 300s in each zone while mixed, would have been assembled down the line in a some what orderly fashion(my guess would be by drivetrain) this early in production. And since you have very limited difference between the units being produced, a less sophisticated tracking system is plausible and probably more practical in terms of production efficiency. When you think about it, the lots had to be filled with product and at the time of this first production filling process, you have to consider that they were made to be bargain basement. And first production bargain basement comes with very limited choices. I dont think it is far fetched at all to believe for this early and simple of a production all early 13211 cars could have had a close tracking number in relation to its production number.
I am going to research this topic to the bone. Well at least model year 1967. Assembly line, So Cal Dealers info, dealer distribution, distribution zones, bulk dealer orders, custom one car dealer orders, 13211 production dates by factory(shouldnt be too hard, only 1903). try and find another early dated low production 13211 fremont example( if any are left), Fremont built, 09D and earlier, bearing any production number BF000xx (if anybody has one please please please send me a pic of the cowl tag for research). I hopefully will find what i am looking for and accurately document and cite my findings. If I feel that i have a solid evidence backed theory i will post it in the Tag Team section. If i find it impossible after my research...at least i learned alot.
I believe nothing i said in the last two paragraphs to be fact. Only my Theory.
I have a guy that i do work for who works at the dealership the car was purchased at checking the dealer order number and i also read on a camaro board that you can contact some GM archive and give them the VIN to your car and they will send you whatever info they have.
I completely understand that a 13211 isnt going to bring anything close to driver quality 138 numbers. Around here i see 138's listed and selling restored in the 35k(F on resto) up range(total F off restos). I figure when all is said and done with all correct original parts i will have roughly 12k total (plus or minus depending what i can trade out) in the car. Showroom condition Frame off Restoration 100% numbers matching. I guess my What's it Worth question would actually be is it reasonable to assume that with all proper documentation and perfect restoration this car could fetch in the neighborhood of 25k-30k to the right buyer? i have only seen a few ever for sale around here; none that have this kind of paperwork behind it, nor any that have been completely restored. If there is money to be made i am going to make it. Even if i have to sit on it for a while until the right guy comes along. Thats like 63543546 times more interest then the bank is giving me....
I hope i was able to clear up anything i may have said that was unclear in my first post, i was half asleep and did it in 2 mins lol
Thank you for reading and i greatly appreciate anyone's opinion.
Paul
after reading the responses to my original post i realized that there was alot of missing info. I did try and upload pics but my file sizes are too big. I am going to start an album and just put the link in my sig. Maybe I can bore you with another long post?
I love classic cars. i am lucky enough to work on restoration projects of all makes and models on a daily basis. i also have many professional auto restoration related customers that i can trade work with to significantly decrease the cost of anything i would need done. For example, today a customer came in who is a pretty prominent builder here in the OC area and offered to trade me a total rebuild of engine and tranny, repaint/finish to factory spec for some media blasting(my profession) on his panel truck, which at cost to cost comparison saves me over 50% on complete motor/tranny refinishing. I do know the value of a 300 is significantly lower than that of SS and Malibu's, however with all this info ....Do any of you see why i cant make this a profitable venture doing a 100% Numbers matching frame off restoration considering documentation?
POP
vin on frame to body to POP match
all major drivetrain date codes match whats stamped on POP
1st owners name whom i purchased car from on POP
Only equipment code on POP is 3 (PB, PS, AM radio)
every number has been checked, codes decoded using POP decoder on chevelles.com
COWL TAG
09D
67-13211 BF00023
TR 724 DD paint
30016 22 167
decoded with decoder found on chevelles.com:
09D-production date sept 22-28 1966
67-13211- 1967 chevelle 300 2door V8
BF00023- Fremont production number 00023
TR 724- medium blue bench interior
DD paint- nantucket blue metalic paint
30016- dealer order number
22 167-???
As i understand it dealers ordered SS and Malibus heavily optioned from the get go. This may explain why customer and dealer ordered optioned Fremont cars' factory tracking codes are impossible to decode as it would be particular to the one car and would not have a consecutive number after it, nor would it be anywhere close to matching production and Tracking numbers because a more sophisticated system would have been adapted to account for option packages. Remember how they added a digit in December? Thus as a hole, making it impossible to decode every Fremont tracking number because no pattern can be established, but leading me to believe it POSSIBLE for really early first production 13211 cars.
i know nobody knows for sure what the factory internal tracking or manifest number(as it is known on the build sheet). my first post only contained theory based on my perceived correlation of this tracking number and the production number of my vehicle. if it truly is #00023 overall or even just 23rd Fremont CA made of 001903, i believe it is possible to decode this number for all Fremont 13211 with very early production dates (if you agree that 09D is early enough production considering only 1903 units produced and my low Fremont number at BF00023), whether it improves my value or not. People needed to see the goods before they bought exactly what they wanted from the dealer, so the dealer would make a list of lets just say ten different 300 cars to have on their lot when opening sales day hit for model year 1967. All of these cars would have the exact same dealer order number (lot filling, first bulk order) in this case 30016, and only slightly different factory tracking numbers, in this case 22 167, because all initial dealer orders for 300s in each zone while mixed, would have been assembled down the line in a some what orderly fashion(my guess would be by drivetrain) this early in production. And since you have very limited difference between the units being produced, a less sophisticated tracking system is plausible and probably more practical in terms of production efficiency. When you think about it, the lots had to be filled with product and at the time of this first production filling process, you have to consider that they were made to be bargain basement. And first production bargain basement comes with very limited choices. I dont think it is far fetched at all to believe for this early and simple of a production all early 13211 cars could have had a close tracking number in relation to its production number.
I am going to research this topic to the bone. Well at least model year 1967. Assembly line, So Cal Dealers info, dealer distribution, distribution zones, bulk dealer orders, custom one car dealer orders, 13211 production dates by factory(shouldnt be too hard, only 1903). try and find another early dated low production 13211 fremont example( if any are left), Fremont built, 09D and earlier, bearing any production number BF000xx (if anybody has one please please please send me a pic of the cowl tag for research). I hopefully will find what i am looking for and accurately document and cite my findings. If I feel that i have a solid evidence backed theory i will post it in the Tag Team section. If i find it impossible after my research...at least i learned alot.
I believe nothing i said in the last two paragraphs to be fact. Only my Theory.
I have a guy that i do work for who works at the dealership the car was purchased at checking the dealer order number and i also read on a camaro board that you can contact some GM archive and give them the VIN to your car and they will send you whatever info they have.
I completely understand that a 13211 isnt going to bring anything close to driver quality 138 numbers. Around here i see 138's listed and selling restored in the 35k(F on resto) up range(total F off restos). I figure when all is said and done with all correct original parts i will have roughly 12k total (plus or minus depending what i can trade out) in the car. Showroom condition Frame off Restoration 100% numbers matching. I guess my What's it Worth question would actually be is it reasonable to assume that with all proper documentation and perfect restoration this car could fetch in the neighborhood of 25k-30k to the right buyer? i have only seen a few ever for sale around here; none that have this kind of paperwork behind it, nor any that have been completely restored. If there is money to be made i am going to make it. Even if i have to sit on it for a while until the right guy comes along. Thats like 63543546 times more interest then the bank is giving me....
I hope i was able to clear up anything i may have said that was unclear in my first post, i was half asleep and did it in 2 mins lol
Thank you for reading and i greatly appreciate anyone's opinion.
Paul
