I have always used Cloyes and have not had a single problem.

 

We use and sell Rollmaster.

 

X2 on Cloyes.

 

Cloyes and Rollmaster, had those 2 brands on my radar. So many variations though; billet, heavy duty, original series, street series, race series.
Going to take a measurement later today to be sure I don’t need a -.005 set in case this thing had been line honed at some point in its life.
what measurement center to center (cam to crank) would indicate a timing set that is not standard?

 

Rollmaster is a CS2040 for std and for a line bored block CS2040LB5 or LB10

 

I like the cloyes 9-3510TX9

 

Very tough to get an exact measurement in there for center to center distance, but I’m coming up with anywhere between 5.149 and 5.151. So I don’t think a .005 undersize is applicable.

 

I’ve used Cloyes and Rollmaster with no problems.
How far off are the timing numbers?

 

Having an issue with proper valve event timing. The issue may be a stretched/worn timing set.
Currently it is a Crane double roller but they are no longer in business I believe. Who makes a good double roller set these days for my 454 based engine? One that won't break the bank. Running a solid roller cam with decent spring pressures.
Thanks in advance.

PM me, I have a BBC FTC set that I didnt use since I went with a roller cam and bought a set from Chris, still in the box

 

When I degreed in the cam, the .050” lifter numbers were set to match the cam card at a 108 ICL. 116 ECL. This was measured at the lifter with the heads off. No valve spring pressure/load on the timing set.
Fully assembled, it is 2-3 degrees retarded.
I’ve checked this on 4 different valves, 1E, 1I, 6E and 6I.
So, with .017 lash, at .050” tappet lift and a 1.7 rocker arm, I should see .068” at the valve. I’m only seeing .052” at the valve. I don’t see the calculated lift until another 2-3 degrees more crankshaft rotation.
I removed #1 rocker and checked at #1 lifter with all other valves still lashed. I now don’t get .050” tappet lift until 2 degrees after where I degreed it. So it appears that the chain has slack that shows under load. It’s an older set that I unfortunately did not replace during this engine rebuild. So I want to get this addressed before I drop the motor back in.
Besides not being where I want the cam installed , a sloppy chain will cause unstable ignition timing.

 

*Update...
Pulled all of the rockers and yanked the timing set out of the motor. Took better measurements and got 5.1485 centerline measurement. Must have been line bored at some point in its life. But not exactly the full -.005" shorter measurement.
All of these years, I just never checked this close. Spoke with the technical director at Cloyes (BTW, they have fantastic customer support) he gave me some good things to look for and some tips for getting things dialed in. I bought a new -.005" set (9-3610TX9-5) but had to try 2 different -.005" Cloyes chains to get it proper. There are some minute differences that can make a difference.
Got it all buttoned up, degreed the cam, advanced it two degrees to match the cam card, installed all rockers and lashed them. Checked #1 cylinder again with a fully loaded valvetrain and it is dead on to where it was supposed to be. Very time consuming, but glad I did it. The motor was supposed to go on a dyno last Wednesday. I found this issue Tuesday the day prior so I had to call the guy to cancel and reschedule.

 

Makes me wonder how many times I or others Non Pro builders, have just put timing sets in and did Dot to Dot and left gobs of HP on the table?

 

This is where it would be nice to have the time and money to have dyno'd the engine before and then after to see if what you did really made any difference.

 

Bill, in a perfect world that would be great.
I’d love to see that data. But that’s way to much time and money for me to dump into a street motor. This is just a 9.4:1, OEM iron headed BBC.
I’ll just close my eyes and imagine it was worth 50HP
If this thing makes 525HP/TQ, I’ll be thrilled.

 

Bill, in a perfect world that would be great.
I’d love to see that data. But that’s way to much time and money for me to dump into a street motor. This is just a 9.4:1, OEM iron headed BBC.
I’ll just close my eyes and imagine it was worth 50HP
If this thing makes 525HP/TQ, I’ll be thrilled.

700hp!!!!!!!!

I do think 600 is achievable. I think you'll be surprised.

 

How did you check the center distance?

 

700hp!!!!!!!!

I do think 600 is achievable. I think you'll be surprised.

600 would definitely surprise me.

How did you check the center distance?

12” caliper. Measured the diameter of each gear on the bench first. Measured many times and it was within .0005” each time.
Installed both gears on the engine and measured the overall OD from gear to gear and then did the math.
Also measured the distance between the top of the crank gear and the bottom of the cam gear (Space between gears) and did the math that way also. Both methods came out within .001”.
There was no way I could be off by as much as .005”.
The folks at Cloyes told me that if I can walk the cam gear on with the chain by hand without using bolts to pull it on, it isn’t too tight. I could do that with the -.005” chain.
Total slop/deflection in the chain was 1/4”.
With a standard chain set my slop/deflection was 3/8”. Anything over 3/8” is out of spec and too loose. So starting with a new set at 3/8” would be out of spec within 100 miles after it was broken in.
The set I took off was old and worn and too long to begin with. Chain deflection was 7/16”.

 

Way to square away a VERY important detail Jim! Unlocking free horsepower ya is. ( well to Bill's point, assuming the valve events are NOW optimized.)

Yet to me, simply knowing its DEAD NUTS on , is priceless.