[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Gents,

Looks like the kid done mde up his mind!:hurray:
Maybe a 350 1970 Elky/th350 vs 350 68 Elky with TKO 5-spd grudge race before the engine re built and swapped in.:boxing:

Part-throttle downshift from 2nd to first after a low-speed 90-deg corner, there is some power now boys and all it took was major gear swap!!!!

Something sane like a 60203 Voodo, roller rockers not really required. Something 'big' like the 60204 VOODOO and roller rockers would be good idea. The 60205 VOODOO rollers would be a requirement. 60205 is stupid-big BTW. Think this is valve-train trouble waiting to happen. Really think the 60205 is bracket/street intimidation, not street.

Good intake choices Darryl. Brett, $120 in that ad for a Perf RPM is "OK".
I prefer to see wht I buy vs mail-order. Hate surprises. I've used Edelbrock products new and used since 1977. I'd run 750 cfm 3310 w/upgrades for street duty and have an 850DP for week-ends

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

OK, looks like Brett hs sent messge to Doug re the 60-over pistons w/HD rods and ARPs. Scat crank is $240, Eagle Crank is $276. I've no preference here.
Am sure Darryl has a good used one too. Your votes:
A: Scat
B: Eagle
C: Good stock crank

Think we're talking budget, longevity, moderate usage. Brett kept saying low RPM. I don't want to make him something he really can't drive due to bad manners or excessive/excessive bad manners and very poor mpg. Typical bad manners and poor mpg are just things ya must live with. I do not see Brett heading N of 6000. Some of the larger Berg cam choices do seem bit excessive.
Brett, counting on you to tell us more of what you are looking for.

BTW, RatVette even with ext manifolds sounds much like Darryl's 69 Chevelle. Sounds like it will blow off the mufflers......

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

Good goin getting the rods and pistons from Doug Z.
I'm looking at one of those rods and the lower dome H426P slugs I got from Darryl. A fit less oomph than what you got but I plan to use the closed chamber heads I have. This will make a sweet combo for me.

I'm more than anxious to do some testing with my new gears.....
Nope, this is not pick on a BBC powered car power here, she just runs so much better......I'm gonna find that kid I bought the Elky from b4 he graduates and heads off to school. I'm gonna scare the crap outa him with little "firepower demonstration."

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Darryl,

I am fully aware that Brett has a TKO 5-spd.
I'm also very confident that Youth and Enthusiasm can be overcome by old age and treachery! I'm also getting hints that there is more power on tap than I figured, unleashed the beast. First gear ends very quickly.....and I was on it 1/2 throttle...think Dennis down the street has an old Sun tach....

Ref Rat Build-up
I'd probably not go over 60203 in a "street Elky":boring: :boring:
I just think Brett would want a bit better manners and more low-end.

I'm gonna try to link with Mark GOTAGO today. Show him the slugs and rods then take him around the block.....

GHK

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

FRYNTYR,

Yes, patient, always conservative, always plotting!
Round trip to Arlington and initial test run, I totaled 220 miles plus of which 110 would be after the gear swap. Thinking I'll have 200 mi by FRI for sure.
First gear seems terribly quick now! Elky is in 3rd before crossing major intersections.

I was looking up the F-M H426P slugs last PM, just a Google Search.
One hit took me to the Team Chevelle archives. Guess what was building?
that's right, 454 w the same H426P slugs, the budget 228/238 cam, Perf RPM, and a Holley 3310. Think the thread was from 1999...... dude wrote the engine had more torque than you could ever need! Looked some more, data says .100" dome, was thinking all along .133". So, my 101cc heads and .1000 dome, not 10.58:1 but closer to 9.8:1--10:1CR, actually more suitable for pump gas premium compared to RatVette where some Booster is still a good idea.....

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

With the 5-spd, better 1st gear ratio, in theory, yes, can go more radical.
Thing is, that monster .68 OD drops the cruise RPM bunches....down so low big duration cams don't work well....lugging at 65 or cruising nicely at 80. This is ok for Montana, Spokane, Coalville, and Pullman but asking for trouble in W WA.

With 5-spd you can run less cam, have better manners,,,let the 5-spd gearing do the work.

Earlier I gave a bad number for CR with 101cc heads and the H426P slugs.
I said something too low. Believe.133" dome 10.58:1, a .100" dome would give me around 10.4:1......perfect.

4* advanced takes some off the top end power off the overly large cams we run to beef the low end/midrange power. Some cams are ground with this so tread lightly. Other side of the coin is that with yet more bottom-end grunt, traction games become serious.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Frank,

Darryl is right once again. Most aftermarket distributors come with heavy springs. Guess this is so they can hit you up again for a few more bucks to buy a distributor tuning kit. RatVette uses one Med and one light spring; 10.75:1 CR, .542/.542" 235/235 deg dur .050" 111* sep. I've tried about every combo of springs and wts on the seat of the pants dyno. I have a brass bushing on the adv rod to limit the advance. I probably have too much advance so will be looking for a way to close the adv slot a bit without removing the distributor and brazing the slot.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

I saw the ad for the 454-4 blt. steel crank, 049s....
What about cleaning out Darryl's garage a bit?
He's got more engine stuff OUTSIDE then I ever had INSIDE!

Hmmmm, under $3000? Nice:hurray:
Is there a completion date in mind? I'm busy through the end of AUG.
Maybe you should talk nice to Berg Racing for starter engine parts and you assemble under his mentorship?
Parts gathering is fun. The real money is made in pre-assembly, ensuring the clearances are perfect.....then balance....then assembly.

You've been watching the thread......
Got a few cam choices?

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

Darryl Berg = Berg Racing
The Voooooodooooooooooooooooo 60204 is a big stick
I'll send some further thoughts in the next day or so....
Sounds like you've really gone to the dark side. Just a few weeks ago you were talking warmed-over 406 SBC and 5500 rpm. Now you're talking big-boy country.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,
I understand Ligenfelter liked the 049 a bit more than the 781s but this was for classes running mostly stock heads. Pretty even with either casting with basic porting as Darryl described in his garage. Had I been less concerned about consuming some of those 24 of my little friends I brought, I'd have thought to grab a 781 and a 049 and look at them closely.

I'm really thinking you should purchase goodies from Berg Racing to assist in making the Welfare Nova go faster.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

AHSOM,

Darryl says yes to "SS hood for dialing-in your carb."
This is gonna wake your engine up.

You DON'T know that I'm also providing certain incentives that he does not do THAT good of a job dialing you in so that you smoke me during the Crate HO mega-buck vs Charity Lo-Buck 454 shoot-out.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Dave and AHSOM,

Despite your predictions, I'm not really trying to make a 'super' category engine.
I'm keeping the cam lift to .540" (same as Ben's ext lobe), my new slugs have .100" domes not .133" or .250".

My intention is NOT to rev "high" but my build will allow me to make power a bit longer than Ben's crate engine. I figure my cam will run out of ooompfffff around 5700-5800 rpm. Fine, my goal is strong AVERAGE numbers, decent manners, something that sounds good, something I can drive and WANT to drive, plus visit strange people in the Seattle Area or south without having a fuel tanker following me. If my intent was simply to smoke Ben, would not be a challenge....I'd just build it to smoke Ben, or Frank, or, or, or.....not the design here and certainly not the budget.(Sorry about that Frank, using you as an example here).

I'm actually betting on my increased compression ratio, slightly larger duration, and oval port configuration to produce more torque in the 2500-4500 rpm range. Lots more torque. I personally feel GMPP really screwed the pooch on these 454s with the big rect port head but the similiar Aluminum-Head version rocks....better head w/right-sized runners and smaller chambers for a bit more compression. At this point in time I'm NOT planning a high-stall converter as I do want some MPG. Geeeee, not rocket science here to figure out traction will be a major issue. Maybe tune OUT some torque to give the Elky a chance, a chance to hook.
Recall, the goal here is to build a low-buck engine for $2000 or so that will out perform Ben's crate engine yet fulfill cruising and general street-performance requirements ....just like the engine I offered to build Ben. Granted, he's been getting BBC windshield time for months now etc and I'm gathering parts. I'm also drawing rather ineffective small arms fire from Brett.

Sure, I could run a larger VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOO cam but if I really wanna go fast. If I just beat Ben by a fender, mission accomplished.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Yes Brett, Ineffective. Nuisance fire....something you'd get from unskilled marksmen! Doing some fine-tuning on my Elky's 350 this evening. She now idles at 18" of vacuum. Changing gears has got me making minor adjustments to the tune to get things working together better.

Ben,

figured on 10.58:1 with .133" dome and 101 cc heads. With the .100" dome, 10.3--10.4:1. So, you'll only be down about 2 pts of compression.

71metbu Dave,

A little power added while locking the brakes....got wheel hop with the 350 tonight. I know my rear springs are toast/shot/tired. Darryl recommends gradual improvements, starting with rt side airbag up inside the (future new) rear coils. We'll go from there. I've been reading up on making the A-Body hook-up and would not wanna spill the beans and give Ben any ideas. Low-buck first. Nope, not gonna feather it out of the hole....gonna finesse it with a mix of Applied Physics, expereience, and good ol' trial and error.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Dave,

You got that right, new springs. A full can of soda in the back of my Elky causes the rear to sag..... Wonder if there is any advantage to SBC vs BBC springs for the rear....I know the factory BBC Fronts will have the Elky WAY OFF the ground. Thinking maybe new SBC springs for the front....

Lowering the Elky? Dunno. Tired of my headers hitting every speed bump. More research to do.

I plan to have my lower control arm level to the ground, rt side airbag, pinion angle slightly down. Either adjustable uppers or elongating the mounting holes til I get the right angle then welding washers to reinforce at the proper position. Some no-hop bars could be tried in there too at some point. Again, not going crazy. I know from RatVette (16 years) that traction is very important.

Loader1,
Older dude down the street had a 66 SS 396/375 4-spd car bought right after LIONS DRAGSTRIP in SoCal closed down. Thought you'd like to know. He's had the car since early 1973.... Lotta traction games with this filed away in the memory.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

I just noticed some 21 y/o youngster MightyMouse61 is also moving up to BBC Country. Currently has a 70 Chevelle with 383. Looking for BBC crate motor ideas. Really interesting thing is that he's right here somewhere on Ft Lewis! He's got about 10 posts on the website. I PM'd him to join us on the NW thread.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,


IF the crank is usable w/o a grind and the block does clean-up at 60-over, you are "steel" in the 'good buy' range.
I hear those 236 heads would make for a nice street 396 with some bowl work. Yes, stump-puller 454 for motorhome! List them on C-L for $90, take $75.
Good that you are keeping prices.
You could buy 049s or 781s from some guy in Arlington, buy valves, springs, etc, etc....$100 for heads, $250 for parts, then whatever labor cost OR you could buy some 1969 oval port, 112cc open chamber heads off racer Terry Reed out this way. These heads are off his 10-sec 427 RatNova, 600+ dyno horse. He's going 496 and Dart heads so these are excess. The heads come ported/polished believe by PED, mondo springs set for .700-something roller cam, h-d pushrods, lash-caps, 2.19/1.88" valves. $550.
Thing is, you really could not enlarge these chambers as they are done and the heads are decked.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

Re Heads from Terry Reed
Talk to FRYNTYR about the piston-milling process. Most slugs can be milled. Naturally you'll have to balance all the toys..... This could work for you if the cost is minimal...

Stopped in at the house for a second....
Heads I recollect are 3933148, 1969 396 2v head featuring a 112cc chamber, the first open chamber oval port head. Cost to buy heads, buy valves, springs, retainers, etc, etc plus porting and V_J close to a grand....
I have Terry's phone number when you have $$$$ if the piston-milling is somewhere you wanna go.

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

If I'd not bought the posi and parts kit AND all the brake work, I'd have bought those heads from Terry long ago. Just too little budget with remodel and daughter to college for all my gearhead ambitions. So, talk to Terry about the heads and goodies that come with them. Have Darryl's knowledgeable friend give them the inspection/once-over.

Dave P.,

thanks for the auction on the springs. I gotta rebuild the car slush fund...
Noted someone elses thread that their ride handled like a hovercraft, HA!

Darryl and Brett
I've found a few more cams for $105 w/lifters. Speed-Pro/Federal-Mogul
CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.
Mr 4 Speed says with converter/std trans, 3.73s and chassis work, high 11s easy. Requires good heads.....just like what I'm telling Brett to get....
This would be more cam than I need.....

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

George,,,,,,I like those numbers. And with 112 LSA it won't be excessively lopey. Put it in 4 degrees advanced and it'd be just right. Those are real close numbers to the 60204 Voodoo except on 112 instead of 110. The 60204 voodoo would be a bit choppier. It isn't bad though and will run trhe power brakes. Launches hard with a 2200 stall (3000+ WOULD REALLY RIP). I agree with Mr.4-speed: Tuned in properly and it'd be capable of high 11's.

CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.

Darryl,
Was thinking more about young Brett on this cam...has the TKO, the compression, etc...possibly the heads from Terry. Brett has no Pwr brakes. The 112 LSA should give him the better manners than the 110 ground Voodoooooooodoooo.

I knew your radar would activate when I started talking a cam this big!

For my low-buck 063 closed chamber heads.....dunno if they could support all that much cam....I'm hearing they lay down at .500-.520 even after porting. Old wife's tale? Think so. Assuming pocket clean-up and some attn smoothing the short side radius....would that be enough head to support the 1140P cam? Would I need to move up to 2.19/1.88? Mr 4-Speed says to just run a big cam, keep the valve size stock.....easier than doing all the valve rework and chamber clearancing for not much gain. Supposing I decide to run a thumper cam like this.....I'd have to come up there, see your friend ref: clearancing retainer to valve seal....I'm guaranteed to .550" dunno what extra clearance I have....alway check stuff beforehand. While the heads are apart, would be a good time to pocket port.....
I also hear big gains from just going to 1.88" ext valves on stockish heads...
What is your opinion on this, good or waste of time......

Ref Carbs for the kid.....
The real answer is two carbs Brett. Sure, an 850DP for the weekends/track day. Tune that carb for your ext cut-outs. This is to say IF, I say IF you are gonna buzz this engine. If you keep it to 5700 rpm, a 750 will work.

With 4-bolt and steel crank, HD rods....6000-6300rpm safely with the Hyper Es. I'd just not feel safe above that w/o forged pistons. Get/borrow/or otherwise acquire a good ol 3310 Holley. From there add a rear metering block kit, jet the darn thing 74/84, run a fairly stiff secondary spring......good power and fair mpg. Tune this thing for cut-outs closed. Most these "big" cams we talk about....reading the PERF section, lotsa guys shift them before hitting 6000 rpm.....making so much grunt by then, no need to tax the engine....W/O a lotta RPM, no need for forged pistons.....this is to say if you keep an eye on the ign adv.

A single carb that works well with the exhaust open will not be jetted right when the ext is closed. Double Pumpers are fine for the track and Saturday night, but suck the fuel badly.

All you guys who actually had a weekend, I left work at lunchtime today (Tues). Fixin to go play with the cars. Gonna tweak and tune RatVette and take her out for this enjoyable weather today. GOTAGO, enjoy all your paperwork....

kettbo

 

[kettbo]

Re: My official big block combinations page (viewing is mandatory)

Brett,

I recall Terry saying the heads were done at PED....noted shop down this way.
He was gonna go $550 for me so $500 for you w/pushrods does sound a bit better. He needs the cash to put his 496 together. We started talking about these heads last fall hence the lower price...
Basic clean-up on heads, repair a few bolt holes, 3-angle v-j, new 2.19/1.88", throat, chamber relieve, springs, retainers etc....up around $650. Throw in a lotta porting, a deck pass to get the chambers smaller.....looking at $900 to $1000. Am sure that pal of Darryl's has some more typical valve springs instead of those roller-capable units that went .700" lift.... I recall Terry ran a stick that big...

Some issue with the RatVette cruising today. Darryl, see PM I sent you. Nice pics btw.

OK, will have to remove the valves on the #063s, will not up the size, do the pocket port.... Gotta locate some cyl head tools....sure miss my neighbor's shop! Gotta decide on a cam while my cash reserves rebuild.

ghk