[ribwizzard]

Hello, new here.

I have a 69 chevelle with no motor. Ive been looking at GM crate engines ( I have a ZZ4 in a nova that Ive been happy with) and want to go big with this heavy car.

Question is, what do you guys think of the LSX blocks like the LSX454? Do you think I'd be happier with something like the ZZ502? I'm looking for something that can be street driven on a regular basis, and will probably go with the Tremec 5 speed and have been looking at the FAST 2.0 injection kit. And I want to run on pump gas with no worries.

I quess the thing is, Ive always messed with small blocks in light cars and really dont know much about Rat motors , or how this car will handle with the BB cast iron vs the LSx aluminum block.

I'd rather not go through the work of building my own bottom end or trying to find a builder I can trust,

Please let me know what yall's opinion on this is....thanks.

 

[Andy's Auto Repair]

I think a 6.0 with cam and heads is all you would ever need. If you have an unlimited busget, Dart just released its newest LSx block that now shares quite abit with the old SBC

 

[ribwizzard]

Well, I have a 2010 camaro with a LS3 , and that thing has some torque to it. Do you think the LSX could be dressed up to have a more stock apperance ( I forgot to mention I wanted to keep apperances). Do you have to use coil on ign. or is there another set up to keep the valve covers clean?

Honestly, I dont know much past the old school small blocks and Holley carbs, I'm trying to catch up with the times and need some help.

 

[427L88]

Rib, with no rat experience, I would encourage you to skip to the next gen. LS with a hairdryer will drown most rats AND be much easier on the street. Go to the Performance section here, and you'll find an LS forum at the top of the page. Read on.

 

[chuckd71]

Maybe I'm biased but I wouldn't put a rat, sbc or any other similar motor in a car any more than I'd put a coal or wood burning steam engine in one. Seems like working backwards.

 

[ribwizzard]

LS with a hairdryer will drown most rats AND be much easier on the street

I really didnt want to go with a power adder, how do they favor / compare with the Rat in naturally asperated form? Most of the BB crates from GM have much higher HP/ torque numbers than the Ls3 in my camaro, and the builds I've read on the LSX sound exotic and I'm not sure how streatable an engine they are. (12-1 comp. is high for pump gas). Do you think you can get over 500hp from them with out a power adder and ultra high compression?

 

[Andy's Auto Repair]

I really didnt want to go with a power adder, how do they favor / compare with the Rat in naturally asperated form? Most of the BB crates from GM have much higher HP/ torque numbers than the Ls3 in my camaro, and the builds I've read on the LSX sound exotic and I'm not sure how streatable an engine they are. (12-1 comp. is high for pump gas). Do you think you can get over 500hp from them with out a power adder and ultra high compression?

A 6.0 out of a wreck with a cam, carb, headers, and port work will get you 500 hp all day long. When you go spray or turbo, it gets rediculous.

My 402 stroker, based on an LQ4 6.0, is 11.25:1, runs on pump gas runs 10.80 all day long without nitrous. Deep 9s on spray. Nothing exotic about the combo.

 

[ribwizzard]

ok, ok, sounds like the lsx is a better route to go. Its just going to be a lot more homework for me.

 

[jackie schmidt]

I think it is all in what you want. Yes, when it comes to making HP per pound, or even HP per cubic inch, it is very hard to beat the current crop of LS engines.

But many of us are old worn out farts that just like the power, sound, and overall look of a big Rat. When I started my last engine project, I could have built anything I wanted, I decided on a total custom 540 Rat for the reasons I just stated.

You can put just about any mildly street able Rat together that will make 500 HP and that and more torque. A typical mild street build would be a 468 with a set of heads that flowed at least 350 cfm at about 600 lift, 9.5 to 1 compression, a Hyd Roller Cam with about 650 lift and 236 duration at .050. A good high rise intake with a 850 sitting on top. If you put it all together right, that's an engine that will put out no less than 550 HP at about 5800, and probably around that in torque at about 4200.

Of course, you can do the exact same thing with a big inch LS, all of the big custom head manufacturers now have heads that flow about that same number, it will be lighter, maybe a tad less durable, but I doubt you will break it.

They talk about power adders. Sure, they will allow an LS run off and hide from most street rats. But stick a ProCharger at just about 8 pounds of boost on a typically mild, 540, and suddenly you have over 900 HP, and that much, and more, torque.

As to which has the most appeal when you lift the hood at the local stop and go when someone wants to look. The Rat is Jennifer Lopez, the LS is Janeane Garofalo.

 

[Stokerboats]

Given the current availabilty of junkyard Ls's vs Junkyard Rats it would benefit you to step up to the newer design engine, especially for efficiency. If you consider the truth you can buy an LS7 (427) from a Vette but you will pay dearly for it. The Ls is in fact a great design but I wouldn't consider it in my original BB Chevelle.

 

[Robinls5]

John from Olathe Kansas, ( Blue & White 72 Vell.) Has a 6.2 Crate engine in his chevelle.
He has around 575 H.P. at the rear wheels and he and his wife drove from Kansas to the Ohio show. He is getting 25 MPG. from Kansas to Strongsville Ohio.
And your next question is ???
Bob

 

[elcamino66]

John drove that 72 to the Peach State Chevelle show in Oakwood, GA this year also.

 

[70-SS454]

No Replacement for Displacement... LS Power is nice but it doesn't feel or sound like Old School Big Block Power... On the other hand, Tire Squeal is Tire Squeal...!

 

[novaderrik]

Maybe I'm biased but I wouldn't put a rat, sbc or any other similar motor in a car any more than I'd put a coal or wood burning steam engine in one. Seems like working backwards.

so putting newer technology in the car is "moving backwards" in your world?

i hope you don't have radial tires or gas shocks on your car... or a newer radio.. or an HEI distributor.. or more modern disc brakes.. or a modern intake manifold..

 

[blumont]

John from Olathe Kansas, ( Blue & White 72 Vell.) Has a 6.2 Crate engine in his chevelle.
He has around 575 H.P. at the rear wheels and he and his wife drove from Kansas to the Ohio show. He is getting 25 MPG. from Kansas to Strongsville Ohio.
And your next question is ???
Bob

Which crate LS does he have ?

 

[SethT]

so putting newer technology in the car is "moving backwards" in your world?

i hope you don't have radial tires or gas shocks on your car... or a newer radio.. or an HEI distributor.. or more modern disc brakes.. or a modern intake manifold..

I think you misunderstood him. He was saying putting a BBC in the car would be going backwards.

 

[novaderrik]

I think you misunderstood him. He was saying putting a BBC in the car would be going backwards.

yeah, looks like i did... i'm at work, so sometimes things get misread... my bad..
but people have said how silly it is to put an LSx engine in an older car in the past..

 

[Busted Knuckles]

Coil packs can be relocated easily and valve covers replaced with some similar to what you're used to seeing.
If I were just getting into engine building, I'd go straight to LS. With OEM 15 and 12 degree heads, they breathe very well. Cross bolted mains strengthen the entire block and help cast cranks live well over 800hp. Race shops are still developing and building stuff for big blocks, but most of 'em are concerned with max effort only, there's not much new with regards to big inch street engines compared to the abundance of LS performance parts that hit the market daily.
I bought a standard bore 6.0L block and pair of complete LS3 heads along with all the covers, etc. for $500 a few months ago. I could have gone with a junkyard piece, but I wanted to know the condition of heads and block, this one popped up at what I think was a good price, so I snatched it up.
Hit Google for some LS engine pics, there are some that look much better than the butt-ugly stockers - find something you like the looks of and build toward that end.

 

[ribwizzard]

Ok, well we have more good points. With this being a street car and not built for the track, Im more worried about drivability , durability and sound.

The lower compression on the Rat, and the fact it would be easier to bolt in makes it very appealling. That gas milage and weight makes the LS more appealling.

And like I said, I dont want to dig through a junkyard, I get very good prices on GM products and will be selecting from the GMPP crate line up. It does not look like they have a complete LSX engine available, but plenty of Rats ready to bolt in. They have some nice LS engines, but I would believe these are basically production models that would not be as strong as the LSX or Rat motors they have. If the ZZ572 620 would fit, I'd just go with that, but the tall deck wont work under the stock hood(or so I'm told) Thats why I was thinking ZZ502.

I have GMPP shortys. cat backs, and exhaust on my ls3 camaro and it sounds nothing like those big rat motors, even though it does run high elevens

 

[Chevello]

How does this sound?

http://youtu.be/EvZkZ57fUXU

It gives me the OMG WANT! chills.