I figure the only way to know for sure would be to do a Rockwell-C hardness test on the face of a bunch of good used lifters, solids and hy-'s, so a surface hardness baseline could be determined.

Then run the same test on a bunch of different brands new lifters to see how they compare between what is known that has worked and new!!

I think the little dent in the face of a lot of the lifters I have seen in the past through the years is the factory's test indent in the face/foot so figure this is done at the factory as a Q-C check..

Anybody else???

pdq67

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The Comp Cam tech recently told me the "only' way a lifter will fail is if it's stops spinning.
I have some OLD original GM lifters here...I'll take one to work on Monday and Rockwell it for a baseline comparison.

 

Bill, Maybe James could send you one of his failed lifters for a hardness comparison. That would be interesting.

 

Originally posted by von:
Bill, Maybe James could send you one of his failed lifters for a hardness comparison. That would be interesting.

Good idea!

I'd be interested in the results.

 

I can say I havent had any trouble with Federal Mogul lifters. I actually haven't had trouble with any lifters, but I was sold a used set with a Comp Cam and they were not lookin so hot.

 

I'm on board if anyone needs a new or used lifter to check.

Mike

 

I'll be sending Bill an assortment of lifters to check. I don't think there's any metal left on the foot of the present failed lifter to check though and I'm not sure if testing around the side of the lifter will be representative of the foot.

 

It would also be nice to get a baseline as far as spring pressures and lift figures. It would be nice to find out where the threshold is in lift beyond which it is where it is likely you will have problems.

Bill,

Could I send one of my lifters to you to test? I'd pay round trip freight.

Mike

 

ALOT OF LIFTER FAILURES ARE DUE TO LACK OF ZINC IN THE OIL.CRANE MAKES A BREAK IN LUBE HIGH IN ZINC.PUT A WHOLE BOTTLE IN ON A NEW CAM AND SPLIT THE BOTTLE IN HALF FOR OIL CHANGES.THE OIL COMPANYS HAVE STOPPED USING IT BECAUSE HYD.ROLLER LIFTER ENGINES DO NOT NEED ZINC.THAT LEAVES FLAT TAPPET USERS IN THE COLD.

 

Originally posted by 69 4 door sleeper:
THE OIL COMPANYS HAVE STOPPED USING IT (zinc) BECAUSE HYD.ROLLER LIFTER ENGINES DO NOT NEED ZINC.THAT LEAVES FLAT TAPPET USERS IN THE COLD.

Most regular 30W weight oils still contain Zinc. It's recommended by at least one racing Turbo 400 builder to use one quart of 30W and then finish filling your trans with ATF. Seems there is no Zinc in ATF and Zinc is needed to keep bushings and thrust washers from prematurely wearing out.

 

4 door has a point. Thats why I use "fleet oil" in the 427. High zinc.

BTW, I have a set of 35K Crane solid lifters, maybe bought 8-10 years ago. That cam wore very nicely. 20-50 and 10-40 oil mostly. 110/335 spring pressures. If you want to measure one.

 

Has anybody here ever wiped a cam using GM EOS during breakin? I have yet to find someone. Maybe today will be my lucky day.

Later
Steve

 

Originally posted by wanarace:
Has anybody here ever wiped a cam using GM EOS during breakin? I have yet to find someone. Maybe today will be my lucky day.

Later
Steve

I did I was a Comp cam and five lobes went in about 5 minutes.

 

I did I was a Comp cam and five lobes went in about 5 minutes.

It sounds like someone did some serious cranking,before they got their engine to fire. Wiped off all the break-in lube,if any was used at all ,or they were using the front springs off their chevelle as valve springs

 

Anyone that wants a lifter rockwell tested for hardness, feel free to contact me via email for my mailing address.
Be aware though, the process will leave a small dimple in the face of the lifter about the size of a ball point pen tip.
Lifters are case hardened, probably runs around .010 deep max. During a lifter failure, once the hardness wears away, the softer core offers little resistance against the cam lobe and grinds away quickly.
I've been told the same thing from a couple different sources about needing zinc in motor oil.
We only use Valvoline Racing 30W.

 

Bill, so the Rockwell testing would render the lifter non-servicable? Mine would have to be reground to re-use anyway.

 

Originally posted by 427L88:
Bill, so the Rockwell testing would render the lifter non-servicable? Mine would have to be reground to re-use anyway.

I don't know for sure but I personally see no reason why it still couldn't be used. The EDM hole on the extreme service lifters don't seem to effect cam/lifter wear.
Maybe one of the full time engine builders (BillK, Wolfplace, etc.) will see this and offer an opinion.

 

The dimple left from the Rockwell test won't hurt the lifter. Sometimes you will find them right out of the box with the hardness test point. I would recommend that you stay away from so-called reground or rebuilt lifters, especially for high performance applications.

 

That's funny b/c I think I read where either Smokey or Jenkins recommended it was OK to use remanufactured lifters IF they spec'ed out OK once done.

But for no more then a set costs why bother trying ta remanufacture them??

As for the zinc, EPA wants all stuff out of engine oils that can possibly poison cat's due to a mileage life thing they want cats to last.. Something like 125,000 miles or such??

And the heavi-metal soaps poison them so they don't last as long..

And both the oil companies and the car makers are trying to make everything live b/c of the lack of extreme pressure lubes in the oils now..

pdq67

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Originally posted by RPM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wanarace:
Has anybody here ever wiped a cam using GM EOS during breakin? I have yet to find someone. Maybe today will be my lucky day.

Later
Steve

I did I was a Comp cam and five lobes went in about 5 minutes. </font>[/QUOTE]If you lost 5 lobes then there is something definelty wrong with cam, litfers or breakin that no oil supplement could ever help.

Thanks for your experience.
Steve

 

There are only two companys that make lifters and as for the cam,comp has had alot of cams wipe here lately.The guy who use to own bullet cams said you cam request a T6? core for them to grind from alot harder but only cost 10.00 more for the cam.

 

So what oil is everyone running?

 

The old green kendall oil is still being made and is called Brad Penn oil and it is still made at the same refinery. www.amref.com On hyd. lifters I use the AC Delco from GM p/n 5232720 for years with zero problems.

 

Straight 30w on inital run-in as per Harold's instructions.

 

I guess some of my lifters are Johnsons, some are Sealed Power (hecho en Mexico). Any problems with either of these?