No need.

 

X2 concentrate on rear control arms the stock ones cause wheel hop etc.

Dave

 

Not to hijack the thread, but at what point to you look at reinforcing the stock mounting points? They look beefy enough on the rearend, some back-side welding might help a bit, but the stock forward mounting points on the frame look pretty flimsy for a high hp launch.

 

I have heard of some people running into a problem with the GM ( A ) and ( G ) body cars with the forward upper control arm mounts bending or tearing away from the frame. Mainly cars with trans brake and slicks that hook very hard. 1.40 60ft and lower range. I think Hotchkis has some bolt in upper forward control arm mount braces they sell. Dont know how much they help with this issue. Would think some gussets welded in around the mount area would be as effective at spreading out the load and stop the problem. Maybe someone else has had this problem? Myself I went ladder bar with coil overs and anti roll bar on the rear. No worries.

 

also dont mean to hijack but wat frame work is needed for a 750+ hp car.. this will prolly runs 9's wil a tickle of spray so take into account NHRA requirements.. frame work should be close to a 600hp car.. no such thing as too much insurance

 

ttt

 

You do need the braces that go between the upper and lower control arms, an antiroll bar helps a bunch in reducing twist. My suspension and connecting points looked fine until the lower bolt broke, the lower right frame mount is mangled pretty good from the lca whacking it, but the uppers are still in stock location with no evidence of pulling away from the frame. I think the G bodies are worse about that.

 

I might add that I am going to do away with rubber body mounts too, going to use polyurethane to help stiffen it up a bit more.

 

do u have a link to those braces?

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...-5211&N=700+4294925130+4294908216+4294908021+4294925079+400065+115&autoview=sku

These are the Edelbrock pieces.

 

Hello Bob,

Can you use these arms with SSM lowers?

Thanks,

 

You can put in a good anti-roll bar and that should be enough. My son's has adjustable upper control arms and Hotchkis lowers but doesn't have any reinforcement where the arms attach to the frame to my knowledge. It has about double the 600 H.P. plus a little more.

 

A body 64 65 66 67 chevelles and all other A body buicks, pont. , on the street with a tear em motor (sbc 4 speed car) ya 283 even you will RIP out that top horse Shoe thats what we call the upper control forward mounts and top shock mounting point in due time with a dirty street and good tires. and youll be sorry because it will be mangled up and if your car even at best being kept great steel rust rot will tear it up faster. And you can take that to the bank. All the new goodies will help save your back half frame system and prolong its death but untill you reinforce the system and i might add a very nice GM 4 link your DOOOOMed. Or drive it like a old man. Now this comes from the days when every red light was a burn out and we gave it hell and behine a automatic you might be more forgiven but you will meet the death. ladder bars will just rip out you main frame work. You have no choice if your going to show off on the street and kick some rice burners rears but to add framework supports to the upper oem horseshoe ( shaped like a horseshoe) . And save yourself some greef before you have to pay big bucks to back half it. And this damage with happen with a 520hp 440 fpt 283 cid motor let along anything bigger.
Hope this helps Douglas

 

Im not trying to be rude or a wize *ss at all when I say: I just dont understand the above. Maybe its me, but the lack of punctuation, lack od capital letters etc I just dont understand. Please re-write it properlyif you dont mind, or someone please paraphrase this for me.

 

I would expect that in Chicago of a Chicago rustbucket car. There are more than one on this site that have made a few passes down the track and not one mention of ripping out the UCA mount or upper shock mount. What are you smokin in the windy city?

 

So this is how you brats behave here on this board, and think its ok to act like this!!!!
and not get **** back, i guess it must be because of your young age and still havent been taught common respect. Or hidding behine a computer screen. Oh you are all buddies here and cannot take it,,,,,,, that someone else that might know something above your knowledge so you have to fight back with negitive comments and bager someones typing because you cant read either without periods and commas and question marks. All well and good whenthe guys framework rips out he can ask you for somemore advise. Your little wimmpy automatic cars might last awhile longer but thats it awhile longer. Hows that!!!!!!!! does that feel nice ?????? Drive a 4,5,6 speed real race car.
But i must admit that without automatics the track would be 3/4 empty.

 

Yes, they go from the front UCA bolt to the front LCA bolt where the controls arms bolt to the frame. I wish I had a pic, not very good at explaining this.

 

Your not to bright Bob how can a person ask for help and have jerks like you ansewer questions, your i guess only fast with the mouth and not with your car. Oh and just for your fast mouth info the car was 7 years old when real men raced cars on the street and for money not mouths.

Douglas

 

Bob is highly respected on this site by a lot of folks needing help with daily drivers to all out race applications. Personally, he has helped me with some issues when I was contemplating some changes and took his and others advice and it worked out for the better for me.
Bob, Thanks for all your help from a lot of people on this site.

 

funny i didnot see any of you people stating bod west approached the question improperly or does it mean that its ok for people to cut up others just because oh hes respected, RESPECTed is earned knowledge is another. read my statements before making a run your mouth p0st.

 

RESPECTed is earned knowledge is another. read my statements before making a run your mouth p0st.

Bob has earned our respect because of his knowledge and accomplishments. I'd bail out now if I were you.

 

Internet experts.

 

haha of coarse this guy doesnt know who bob is... and he is pretty rude.... im waiting till this guy gets bombed on... hahahah:noway:

 

By golly, fellers, I believe we've found Ed's no-spellin', no-punctuatin' cousin, alive and well in the windy city I can't wait to see what Chicago math can do to a time slip!

 

By golly, fellers, I believe we've found Ed's no-spellin', no-punctuatin' cousin, alive and well in the windy city I can't wait to see what Chicago math can do to a time slip!

LMAO !

 

Let’s forget about the Stars and get back to our regular scheduled program. I think the topic was: How much hp & tq can a stock frame take? Now thats a good topic….

 

topic for chevycrazed was more about (but kind of morphed a bit)

A body 64 65 66 67 chevelles and all other A body buicks, pont. , on the street with a tear em motor (sbc 4 speed car) ya 283 even you will RIP out that top horse Shoe thats what we call the upper control forward mounts and top shock mounting point in due time with a dirty street and good tires. and youll be sorry because it will be mangled up and if your car even at best being kept great steel rust rot will tear it up faster. And you can take that to the bank. All the new goodies will help save your back half frame system and prolong its death but untill you reinforce the system and i might add a very nice GM 4 link your DOOOOMed. Or drive it like a old man. Now this comes from the days when every red light was a burn out and we gave it hell and behine a automatic you might be more forgiven but you will meet the death. ladder bars will just rip out you main frame work. You have no choice if your going to show off on the street and kick some rice burners rears but to add framework supports to the upper oem horseshoe ( shaped like a horseshoe) . And save yourself some greef before you have to pay big bucks to back half it. And this damage with happen with a 520hp 440 fpt 283 cid motor let along anything bigger.
Hope this helps Douglas

Do you have any pics or anything that shows this with cars at this power level? Wondering if you have anything that supports a constant failure in this area with cars in that HP range - street cars, little track time, etc. Im not getting into the other junk with you. Looking for some kind of addtional info other than your statements (dont worry, I do this with the bible too so nothing personal) But I havent personally seen any consistent dramatic failures, serious frame failures from cars at this level that arent constantly on slicks and racing, lifting the wheels. Im talking prepped, solid, corrected stock frames.

I mean, sure, if your running at the track all the time (straight line or road) and always beating on the car your going to stress things a bit but then your into s purpose built car and should take those constant stresses into consideration not only for safety and longevity but competition. On the street and occasional track runs, just a high(er) HP fun street ride? Hell man, we'd have guys here daily complaining about tweaked frames, broken frames, injury, and various failures related to this. Never seen that here or elsewhere so looking for you to educate me, give me some real world examples, have some buddies post here with their stories, something, anything more than - your doomed, you WILL break as if its an absolute. Cant have an absolute without proof. Plenty of proof to the contrary (tons of cars running at those levels for years, no constant reports of breaks, death, injury, etc).

I think this is on topic if we get away from the bickering. When is it needed and at what level - preferences, experiences and the reasons behind it. But when you make a claim that appears to be an absolute everyone here should expect data, evidence, additional info from 2nd, 3rd parties to back it up and proove it.

 

More to the point of the thread:

A good solid prep for a solid chassis without going deep into modifications or aftermarket pieces would be (assuming you have the frame out from under the car):

1. Fully weld or reweld all suspension mounting points. Most of the brackets are welded to the frame using stitch welds. Make them more solid by completing each weld at every joint. If the factory welds are poorly done, and many are, grind them out and reweld them properly. This needs to be done at all upper and lower suspension attachment points. It also doesn't hurt to finish off, complete or redo ALL the welds on the frame. A boxed frame (by using a convertible frame or boxing it yourself) can also help it be more ridgid. Poly body mounts can help stiffen it all up but you will see some increase in road noise and vibration being transmitted into the interior.

2. (Assuming a 12-bolt or 10-bolt rear) Weld the axle tubes to the center section. This welding can only be done when the axle housing is empty of the differential, bearings, gears and axles. Welding the rear axle housing tubes needs to be done carefully to avoid warping the housing. This is a task best left to someone who has done such an operation with success in the past. Also completely weld the lower control arm mounts and/or reweld them.

3. Add the control arm braces. It doesn't matter if you install old GM parts, reproductions or aftermarket versions, but these braces help support the upper control arm mounting points and strengthen the entire system. GM started fitting these to all manual transmission optional V8 A-bodies starting in 1965 and retrofitted them to many 64's that had had frame or suspension problems. Many early 4-speed GTOs had frame and suspension breakage.

Here's a photo of the GM-style (reproduction) braces and where the go:

4. Aftermarket control arms flex a whole lot less than stockers, even if the stockers are boxed. At the VERY least, use stock style boxed lower arms. A rear sway bar will help spread the forces across both sides of the suspension instead of letting it be concentrated on one side.

A real world story: my cousin owned a '64 GTO with a tri-power, 4-speed and Saf-T-Track and broke the rear lower control arm mount off the frame twice and the third time the frame was broken so bad he had to replace the frame. This was his daily street car but was raced on weekends. The engine was entirely stock but he did have 4.88 gears in the back. Still, with stock power and torque he still managed to break the lower control arm mounts multiple times. I'm restoring this very same car right now. It did NOT have the control arm braces, but it will get them during the restoration.

I've heard stories of breaking the upper control arm mounts, never seen that happen myself though, but I think the lower mounts are much more prone to having problems. Manual transmission cars hit these things much harder too. Regardless, I think it takes a good deal of prolonged abuse to cause any serious problems but they are easily avoided with the use of support braces.

 

thanks, Rich!

:thumbsup:

sexy naked rear end you got there.

 

Does that picture make my rearend look big?

 

it looks good on you, honey.

 

good one beaux! ROTFLMAO

 

Wow, is all i can say! I am pretty much a Chevelle tech lurker just to avoid people like that responding to my questions, but that dude is a jerk!!!

Anyway...I believe the Mustang crowd has a lot more problems with the upper control arm mounts ripping out than we do. If this was a problem that had reached epedmic proportions as someone had stated, there would be a nice kit for sale by many companies. Look around, there aren't any!

Sorry guys, couldn't stop myself. I'll go back to lurking.