My LS5 was produced in Atlanta last week of february and engine was produced the 2nd week of Oct. mike

 

Very interesting topic,not so easy to define!. There is no doubt GM had a plan when it came to dissemination of initial run LS5/6 motors to certain plants.All data found points to two plants,to KC and Bal,as having the earliest of these engines.The ebay car in question has tight block casting to trim tag(9B to 9C)where ALSS's misty turquoise car has a 9B casting and a 04 build-that's two week to six months gap! Personally I believe the cranberry red car is a "tribute" with repop trim tag and aftermarket block and rear end stampings..it precludes the one Mr 70 has documented as the earliest by nearly three months.Logic would allow for at least one other car between that gap to still exist.The Nov build Leeds LS6 is a very interesting car because of the fast track at which it was produced.With a 10/31 block casting and 11C build it would have had to been assembled,crated,shipped 1200 miles,delivered,assigned and installed all with three weeks..where as the 12B BAL pilot has a casting date of mid sept,and assy date of late Nov-almost a three month process.It would be great to find someone who worked at Tonowanda during that period that could answer a few questions that have been asked for decades!

 

Well, this fellow who has the auction for the LS5 convertible, e-mailed me about two weeks ago, wanting to see my engine stamping. I had posted this thread: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104525
but deleted the pic from my showroom since then. This guy wanted a pic of my stamping, so I gave him one. I hope I didn't become an accessory to building a counterfiet car!! I just thought he was a fellow gear head, looking for information. It wasn't till he e-mailed me back thanking me for the pic, that he enclosed a link to the Ebay auction seen here. By the way, My car is a Kansas Leeds car (no build sheet) 03B build date, L34 engine and has the letter "L" on the body tag.
Steve

 

I'm sorry, but after 4+ years of intesnse interent awareness I would have thought an earlier LS6 than 12B would have surfaced, and folks outside of 1 or 2 people would have seen the factory docs. It is interesting when I asked one of the main Chevelle guru's about the car, the same guy that has the Diamond Certification...Jeff Dotterer, he hadn't heard about it, even though one of his best friends Chris White,susposidly had..I for one find the idea of a Leeds built LS6 that is a full month ahead of any other Leeds LS6 that is known about is hard to digest. Look shortly after the build date of the Bal "pilot" LS6..there are plenty of other LS6's that were built. The idea that Leeds built 1 LS6 between 11C and 12C makes no sense. This topic periodically comes up and noone seems to be able to produce the docs..Until someone produces the docs and the car is verified in my opinion it doesn't exist.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970...rs-matchin g_W0QQitemZ4609750913QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ..!......................................................Well, I guess that SUPER SPORT found a good home...,..,.....We can sleep like babies tonight..!

 

VIN#136670K111690

ST 70 13667 KAN061094 BDY
TR 755 75 B PNT
O9D 05724
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970...rs-matchin g_W0QQitemZ4609750913QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ...... Feb.5,2006 ........ $110,000.00 ........
Well, I guess that SUPER SPORT found a good home..........We can sleep like babies tonight..!

Quite the story.
Some guy said his 4-year-old accidentally hit the buy-it-now button.

And the dog ate his build sheet

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________________________________________


Now we have another, $90,000.00 dollar, starting bid .......
really super nice, "1970 Chevelle SS454 Convertible" ............
... LS5 .... 09D ... #136670K111602 .... without the/ "L" code ...... clone ....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970...S5-Convertible_W0QQitemZ220105569107QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've never seen, a documented 1969-1972 "Leeds built Super Sport" without the [L] code.

It is my opinion, if a 1969-1972 Chevelle/ El Camino or 1971 Monte Carlo,
"built at Leeds" does not have the [L] code, on the trim tag,
the car has about 0 % chance of being, a real factory built Super Sport..........

Speaking of only,1970 LS5 Chevelle Super Sports,
the earliest documented, I have heard of;
1. Leeds built ......12C.....12/15/1969....Hardtop
2.Van Nuys built ..12C.....12/17/1969....Convertible..........................Don.
_______________________________________________________________

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970... mbers-matching_W0QQitemZ4611667131QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ...........(Apparently, I was mistaken)!!!!!!

 

Quite the story. See the listing where the questions get posted. Some guy said his 4-year-old accidentally hit the buy-it-now button.

 

Quite the story. See the listing where the questions get posted. Some guy said his 4-year-old accidentally hit the buy-it-now button.

And the dog ate his build sheet

 

The seller just shoved the cork back into that $500 bottle of vino ~ and probably vacuumed up a pile of hair or two as well...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970...ble-LS5-numbers-matching_W0QQitemZ4614642883QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem -$ave $ome ca$h on thi$ $$- (Dragnet Special)the names and location were changed to protect the innocent........and.........It did'nt hurt that the price dropped,like a rock,either !!!!!!!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970...-Chevelle-OnLy-6-000-00 _W0QQitemZ4614675798QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-----Canada via Kentucky via Pennsylvania.......They are gonna wear this car out!!!!

 

UPDATE......April 16,2006...
Speaking of only,1970 LS5 Chevelle Super Sports,
the earliest documented, I have heard of;
1. Leeds built ......12C.....12/15/1969....Hardtop
2.Van Nuys built ..12C.....12/17/1969....Convertible
__________________________________________________________________
..Since the 1st known 1970 LS6 Chevelle SS built at Baltimore.12/9/1969..12B..
_______________________________________________________________
..It is also widely known that the,1970 LS5 Monte Carlo SS were being built
as early as Oct./Nov. of 1969.....
__________________________________________________________________
It is entirely possible, there are other earlier built LS5 Chevelles,also......
Just have not seen/or/heard of any documented cars built that early,yet....
Anyone with more information, on documented earlier built LS5 Chevelles,
please feel free to post your info here.........Thanks, Don

 

Can ANYONE best these numbers of,
"the earliest known dates, of "just" documented 1970 "LS-5" Chevelle SS454's built at each factory"
___________________________
1970--------TRIM-----BUILD-----ENGINE------POSTEDBY-----DATEPOSTED--------1970----
CHEVELLE----TAG-----SHEET-----CODE-------USERNAME-------ONTHIS------------VIN-----
FACTORY----DATE-----DATE----------------Team Chevelle-----WEBSITE--------NUMBER---
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Baltimore----[--]----[--/--/-?-]-----LS5--------[----?----]---------/--/----
Leeds/KC----12C----12/15/1969----LS5----------RixLS6 ---------04/13/2006 ....[K141523]
Van Nuys----12B----12/12/1969----LS5---------greg2001 -------09/24/2006 ....[L157687]
Atlanta------01D----01/26/1970----LS5--------Dave Birdell-------01/01/2008 ...[A125322]
Arlington----01A-----01/--/1970----LS5----------LevonH---------02/12/2006
Oshawa-----12C----(12/--/1969)---LS5----------waynew -------10/06/2006
Flint--------[-?-]---[-?-/--/-?-]----LS5---------[___?___]---------/--/----
__________________________________________________ _____________
It is entirely possible, there are several other, earlier built 1970 Chevelle / LS5, at each factory ......
Just have not seen/or/heard of many, documented LS5 cars built in December 1969..........

Just need the "EARLY 1970"/ LS5 buildsheet date, trim tag date and the "optional vin number"... Don.

As of...... Jan. 1, 2008 ...
Speaking of only, the 1970 LS5 Chevelle Super Sport's,
the earliest documented cars, that I have seen/or/heard of;
1.Van Nuys built ..12C.....12/12/1969.... Hardtop
2.Van Nuys built ..12C.....12/17/1969.... Convertible
__________________________________________________________________

..Since the 1st known 1970 LS6 Chevelle SS built at Baltimore.12/9/1969 .... 12B ....
_______________________________________________________________
..It is also widely known that the, 1970 LS5 Monte Carlo SS were being built
as early as "October 6, 1969"..... and, possibly mid-September ......

Miscellaneous interesting 1970 Chevelle LS-5 factory build information.

I run across ads, quoting different production numbers for the 1970 LS5 Chevelle convertible.
Is there any actual published production numbers??

Dan Carr's poster (http://www.designscomputed.com/auto_pub/a_body_68_72.html) is the most unbias I've seen for engine/transmission/series/model combination numbers cruncher.
He puts the probabilities of LS5 convertibles at:
w/o ZL2 hood - 27 w/4-speed and 22 w/TH400
with ZL2 hood - 23 w/4-speed and 19 w/TH400

Remember, these are proportional numbers only. If you look at the 1970 LS-5 coupe numbers ...
w/o ZL2 hood - 1148 w/4-speed -and- 980 w/TH400
with ZL2 hood - 992 w/4-speed -and- 844 w/TH400
...that's 3,964 plus 519 statistically viable El Caminos gives a total of...

3,964 + 519 + 91 = 4,574 (plus another 3823 in the Monte Carlo).

Are the numbers absolutely 'correct'? Chances are, no but they are statistically probable. Given the number of possible Chevelles that could have the LS5 (2-dr coupe/ 2-dr convertible/ Custom
El Camino), convertibles are roughly 2.1% (0.021159082760725471197750458530746) of the total.

That's roughly 2.1% of 4574 LS5 gives you 96 LS5 convertibles.

BTW, a plug for the poster - http://www.designscomputed.com/auto_pub/a_body_68_72.html - it's well worth the price. :thumbsup:

I believe there were actually less LS5/M22 Chevelles in 1970.
I find 2,763 were built with that combination, and have the engine code CRT, but that also includes the service engines.

Those of us who do a lot of research on 1970 cars in particular, have become more forgiving about date lead times. It seems especially 454 cars (LS5 and especially LS6) commonly have more date variations. Parts like your rearend are specific to the 454 car, and since they are made in lots or batches, the lower the useage, the more time between the lots or batches of parts made. Also, certain plants seem to have had a higher percentage of this happen.

I have seen the #1100837 alternator with a date of 9H6 on at least [5] late 1970 cars built in Baltimore including my personal April 1970 built El Camino. A lot of these cars also have a December 1969 built rearend. These date variations can be considered normal, and are not just confined to high horsepower cars. I had a 402 block one time, cast in Jan 70, and not built until Aug 70, and the Stamp said it was for a 1971 402 300HP Camaro. Answer I got from Tonawanda historian was block probably had a flaw, and they would put it aside and fix flaw when they had a shutdown between year changeover (70 to 71). They would then use it up immediately on the first run. Makes sense in this case. Anyway, don't sweat your case, this is somewhat common.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Former NCOA Senior Judge
Current Diamond Restored Judge

My 512 block is Oct 69, - Rearend is Dec 23 69 and - Trans is April 23 70 in an 05D Arlington car.
I have 2 POP's and the build sheet. All numbers matching.
There was a thread earlier this year and one of the posts was from a guy who worked in Tonowanda. He stated that everyday there were blocks that got pulled off the line for every reason you could think of and got sent to a repair area to be fixed.
Sometimes they sat for weeks or months until they were repaired and shipped.
So who knows what ended up where.

I have a 1970 SS454 black with white stripes, bench seat, M22, matching numbers. Also have build sheet and documents from vintage vehicle in Canada.
Built 3rd week of December 1969, and shipped to Curry Chevrolet in Scarsdale N.Y.

My SS454 was built 3rd week of December in Oshawa Canada .

Great info....I have a Baltimore LS5 built 03A cowl tag - 02/20 Build sheet & (01/27) motor.

I have a 1970 454 with owner history and buildsheet. My car was built in Atlanta on Jan. 28th.

Here are all the numbers on the block.
#3963512
TO1I3CRT
#10A128601
J 24 9

I've had this block for several years. It came from the east coast.
Casting #3963512. It has an assembly date T1208CRQ
The partial VIN# is for a Canadian built 1970 Chevelle LS5. [101529413]

My Baltimore LS-5, 512 block cast [L 18 9],heads A 17 70 and A 21 70, engine assembly Jan.23,1970, 01D body plate. M-22 trans Dec.19,1969. Rear Jan 20,1970. All pretty close.

Dec. 1969/ Z-15 Chevelle build dates .....
B126084 12B L78 build date 12-04-1969
B127012 12B LS6 build date 12-09-1969
..... other early built Z15 cars .....
L157687 12B LS5 build date 12-12-1969
A119029 12C LS6 build date 12-15 "
K141523 12C LS5 build date 12-15 "
L159008 12C LS6 build date 12-16 "
B129B53 12C LS6 build date 12-17 "
K144677 12C LS6 build date 12-19 "
B130498 12D LS6 build date 12-22-1969

 

Looks like a seat belt indicator on the dash among other things to indicate a clone.

 

Atlanta built LS5, with build sheet, Built 1-26 VIN 10A125322 Car last sold in Detroit by Sonny, Feb. 1999

 

I have a 1970 LS5 engine out of a 1970 Monte carlo SS

Suffix code of CRN ..
block casting 3963512
casting date on back of block I-6-9

2bolt main,domes gm pistons,standard bore. crank polished 10/10 in 1983

Now is that an easly one or what? sept./ 6 /69

 

I need to move the motor to find the partial vin on it,it is not on the cyl head pad.

The #s on the pad read..T0910CRN now a few codes are coming back monte carlo,and some are saying chevelle? on a google search..What is right you great chevelle people!!

What is my date on my motor decode to? Thank you

I have a 1970 LS5 engine out of a 1970 Monte carlo SS

Suffix code of CRN ..
block casting 3963512
casting date on back of block I-6-9

2bolt main,domes gm pistons,standard bore. crank polished 10/10 in 1983

Now is that an easly one or what? sept./ 6 /69

 

What are the numbers after CRN?Engine build date.

 

I will get all the numbers off it and will post pics os well..Car is long gone..was totaled in 1983..was a black on black 70 monte ss ..I have a pic of it somewhere ,He bought the car new..I am second owner of motor.

Thanks for the info so far..

 

Odd, but not that uncommon....

 

If I thought it was uncommon I would of said so. I just said it was odd.

 

Well, Michael, I mentioned it was not uncommon so that if one of the other 3,522 people that viewed the thread saw it, they might know....:yes:

 

Any one notice a lot of old post are being revived?

 

I've noticed.

I think new people come here and start reading all the old threads that interest them and may resuscitate some oldies. I know I did a whole lot of reading when I first staggered in here.

 

I wonder why the LS5 was being sold in the Monte Carlo a couple of months before the Chevelle platform?

 

Dale and others

The general thought on this is because the LS5 in a MC didn't require the M22. The MC was only available with an auto (have seen a couple of cars with reported manuals, but no paperwork to my knowledge).

The general thought as to the LS5/LS6 being a mid year introduction was that the larger shafted M22 (for 1970 and the additional torque of the 454) wasn't available til then. Also keep in mind 1970 was the 1st and only year where a 'vette didn't have the highest advertised HP. The 'vette was supposed to get the LS6 and LS7,which never materialised so some of the delay is attributed to GM dragging their feet and not wanting to eclispe the 'vette with advertised HP. Also the delay in 1970 introduction with the "F" body and the apparent interest in a 454 powered Camaro I'm sure went into the mix. 1970 was going to be a banner year if everything fell into place...which it didn't..

The LS5 in Chevelles seems to have been alongside the LS6.

Anyone wanting some good back ground into this type of subject..go back and do a search for my screename "greg2001" and look at some of my post from 2001-2005.

Hope this helps

Greg

 

I was always under the impression the LS5 was available from the start of the production year and the LS6 came along in December after the stop of the L78. This post seems to prove otherwise. Wonder what someone did if they wanted to order the LS5 454 at the start of the year. It was listed as an option unlike the LS6. Wait a couple of months longer to get their ride?

 

One needs to remember that the LS5, in and of itself, was not an option but rather the base engine of the Z15 SS Equipment option. The Z15 option is clearly shown in the earliest of Chevelle brochures and other information as early as September of 1969.

 

Is there a similar post for 1970 L78's that someone could direct me to?

 

Here is my green cars' cowl tag data ....

ST 70 13637 B 635403 BDY

TR 771 48 48 PNT

12B B D 0111

The car is a bucket seat, floor shift, automatic LS6 with POP, 2 buildsheets, original owners certification, letter from the zone rep that ordered the car as his demo .....

It's sort of ironic, the 1st (publically documented) LS-6 Chevelle SS454 is a TH400 car ....

_____________________________________________________________

Is there a similar post for 1970 L78's that someone could direct me to?

I've never seen one ....... From what I've read about the L-78 option on the Chevelle SS396, it was available for 4 straight years, from about October 7, 1965 until December 8, 1969 .... on 5 model years ..

The 1966 SS L-78 ( 396/375hp ) was not an available option until:

October 7, 1965.

That is Late when one considers the 1966 Model year started July/August 1965 and at that time,
one could only get the base engine 325hp or the Optional 360hp version.
3,099 Chevelles were produced with this L-78 engine.

Mike Crown

It appears that L78's were built up to 12-8-69 at the Baltimore plant.
Most of the later (after 11C) L78's appear to have been Baltimore cars.

Greg

 

The delay in the 1970 launch of the new F-body Camaro was engineering problems in the sheet metal stamping plants.

 

I wasn't referring to why the "F" bodies were delayed..only that it might have had an impact on the LS5/LS6 in Chevelles..with respect to the introduction of the engines. There isn't any data to verify this, but I'd suspect one of the reasons (along with others) the engines weren't released for Chevelle use earlier had to do with with trying to have as many common parts between the 2 lines for the engines..ie: intake manifold being one.