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COPO/Motion? HELP

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1.8K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  ann 68ss396ragtop  
#1 · (Edited)
First sorry for the long read. Back in the late 90s I was made aware that my friends. Father had a motor sitting in his basement. Turns out he had a 69 Chevelle back in the 80s that he thought he had a 396 in it. He pulled the motor to get it bored .30 over. While the motor was in the shop, they called him and said his motor was actually a 427 out of the 67 Corvette. At the same time, the motor was in the shop he had to get rid of the Chevelle . The motor sat at the shop for about a year then he took it home and it sat in his basement for probably 20 years till I found it and got it for $500

The specs he had on the motor are
•425 hp before the work

•4 bolt main
•11.01 compression,
•new TRW pistons,
•stock forged steel piston rods
• steel HI Perf Heads large square ports

•and a bunch of other smaller things

Over the next two years, I built the motor and put it in my 71 Chevelle and enjoyed it for a few years. I decided to do a frame up restoration back in 2003 ish. When I took the body off the frame, I realized my frame needed much more work than I thought and the car sat in my yard till a few months ago. I came across another rolling chassis that was cheaper to buy them to redo the one I had. So I’ve started putting everything back together. While the motor was out I wanted to run all the casting numbers on it. This is where the story gets a little bit interesting.

The casting numbers
•Block is 3963512. Which checks out as a 427 or 454 . The casting date is March 1969.

•Heads casting is 3919840 and also 1969.
•Block stamp T0325JD
•I have the oil pan on now so I need to get the crank casting numbers still

So clearly this is not out of the 67 Corvette. The JD could be two possible cars 1967 Corvette with 427 or 1969 Chevelle with a 396. I actually still have contact with my friend’s father and reached out to him and ask “by any chance do you still have your Vin number” and he did. 136379G339916 The Vin number of the Chevelle is also on the block however the first four letters are almost missing. It’s clear this was out of that car

But it also clearly is not a 396 with the 512 casting numbers . Which led me to believe this possibly could be a COPO or a Baldwin Motion motor. He lived with in 30 min of Baldwin and so do I. I should also add he was not the original owner.

Then I found a website that could run a build sheet with a Vin number and that told me the car was built with 307. I don’t know legit this site is tho
detailed vehicle history

At this point, I’m so confused . He said the car was a SS 396 but the when I decode the VIN 36 in a Mailbu. I think all COPOS had a Malibu trim but the Motions had a SS trim. Copo’s were assembled in Maryland this one was assembled in New York. Any help would be super appreciated.

See attached photo and build sheet.
 

Attachments

#4 ·
There is no such thing as a Copo or Baldwin motor. They all used over the counter engines supplied by GM. The engine you have is not from a Copo or Baldwin or any other car other than a Chevelle.. It started life as a L78 396. It might have a 427 internals in it now but started as a 396. Unless you can find the original car it is not a valuable engine.
 
#5 ·
Thank you. Sorry, yes I'm aware of that. They didn't make their own motors. They all came from Chevrolet. I'm really not concerned about the value of the mortar. It's just more out of curiosity. I would like to know what it is if it's an L 72. Judging from all the research I've been doing and asking a bunch of shops 396 never came with a 512 casting ID.
 
#8 · (Edited)
It's not an L72, it's probably an L78. I'm just going by memory that might be a little fuzzy. You even have the right heads for an L78. Just out of curiosity does it have 3/8 or 7/16 rod bolts? A L78 is a 396 tho and they never made a 396 with 512 casting. I can see the suffix being re-stamped as its in printed to the block but the casting is protruding out of the cast I can't see how they could possibly redo that afterwards.
I dont know the rod bolt size . I need to take the pan off this week and I can check. What would be the difference for 3/8 vs 7/16?
 
#7 ·
It's possible that someone took a 427 and restamped it with a L78 suffix code and VIN. After looking at your pictures on a bigger screen it looks like that might be the case. You can't see any broach marks on the block which might indicate the block was decked and restamped. When I first looked at it I was on my phone so the pictures are better on a computer screen.
 
#11 ·
#13 ·
The left side of the pad looks OK, but the right side where the VIN is located looks like the broach marks are gone.
The "JD" suffix is stamped deeper than the rest of the Tonawanda stamp, and the "D" is not straight in line as it should be.

I suspect restamp.
 
#14 ·
"Then I found a website that could run a build sheet with a Vin number and that told me the car was built with 307. I don’t know legit this site is tho "

That is NOT what the collector car hobby would refer to as a build sheet, and the info provided is useless for what you're trying to find out. It does tell you all the standard equipment that came on a 69 Chevelle, including the 307 V-8 engine which was the base V-8 engine for any 8 cylinder model 69 Chevelle. However, that does NOT tell you what, if any, optional equipment was ordered on that particular car, including any optional V-8 engines.

The engine you have undoubtedly started out as a 427, as the casting date is too early for a 454. The pad stampings - which were undoubtedly done by either your friend's father or the machine shop - do not correspond to any 1969 model 427 engine applications, so there's no way to tell what it originally came in.
 
#16 ·
There are some great example pictures of what the stamps should look like here: 1969 Chevelle Engine Photos

Note they are typically very straight and stamped at an even depth.
The suffix being deeper and slightly out of line is not typical of a factory stamp.