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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have a 70 chevelle 454 that I can't keep the temp below 230. I have a 160 thermostat with a trans cooler running in series with radiator and a large electric fan set for the lowest temp. But I still see temps around 230. My take at this point is the radiator is too small. Any suggestions??:confused:
 
what cfm is the fan. What is the diameter of the fan. brand? How many core is the radiator? condition of radiator?
 
As asked above, it would help to know more about the radiator.
Do you have a fan shroud? Have you flushed the system? What coolant misture do you have?
What type of guage are you using?
 
Things that will contribute to over heating:

1) Radiator too small or plugged. The big block likes a four core radiator.

2) Bad water pump. I've seen blades break off of impellers before. No circulation=overheating.

3) Retarded timing. Make sure you have 16-18 degrees initial, 36-38 total mechanical and around 52 degrees maximum timing with a vacuum advance.

4) Fan too small or not adequately shrouded. It needs to cover as much of the core as possible and be mounted very close to the core. I use two smaller fans in mine with a shroud that covers most of the core as can be seen here.

Tom
 
Two things to consider:
- are you using a shroud around the fan? If make a BIG difference in the efficiency of the fan.

- If you are using a mechanical temp gauge with the sensor in the intake and the tube running to the rear of the top of the engine then to the firewall, you are probably running around 180 to 195. That tube is getting heat soaked from the engine. Get an electrical gauge and sensor. That's the only way to get a reading that's close to the temp of the engine coolant wherever the sensor is placed. You could also use an IR Temp sensor/gun to verify the engine temp. It's still not the internal temp of the engine or coolant, but it will be close enough to tell if your gauge is reading high.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the feedback and questions. 16" electric fan witout any shroud. Mechanical temp gauge which might be effected by header heat etc. 4 core radiator but smaller than stock for Big block. I have changed trans cooler to run separate from radiator and adjusted fan termostat to the coolest setting. Total advance is at 38 degrees without vacuum.
 
That fan will move a lot of air but unfortunately without a shroud, little of it will go through the radiator. Get some kind of shroud around it even if it's just a simple sheet metal cylinder. Right now, most of the air flows from the center of the fan directly off the tips of the blades. You need something to force it through the core.

Tom
 
Check the thermostat.Take it out and put it in a pan of boiling water and see if it opens.Put a thermometer or another known good one same temp in the pan with it, see if they open together..I just changed one not that long ago.Brand new only opened half way,old one stuck closed.
 
Check the thermostat.Take it out and put it in a pan of boiling water and see if it opens.Put a thermometer or another known good one same temp in the pan with it, see if they open together..I just changed one not that long ago.Brand new only opened half way,old one stuck closed.

Since I am having some minor issues with the 59, I did this to 5 t-stats that I have used and put on the shelf.
All were new
160----started to open at 185
180----started to open at 190
180----started to open at 205-----only opened half
180----started to open at over 212===-only half opened
180----did not open at well past boiling

Need to check the one still in the car tho----opening the hood is as far as I have gotten so far
 
I just went through some of this unfortunatly I ran mine too hot and warped some valves. I seen your running a 160 degree stat. You can try a 180 or a 195..this will keep the coolant in radiator longer to allow more cooling time of coolant before re-entering engine..I was running 180 all day long with a 180 degree stat and decided to change my carb to an edelbrock 1411 in which was to lean for engine and caused it to overheat. Somethings we learn the hard way. Check your carb for lean condition and try a higher stat. Everyone kept telling me that aluminum heads read hotter and if the guage is reading from head it will read a little warmer, mine is in head not intake and and read great at 180 till I put the wrong carb on and never thought it would run hot and I turned my back on it and run it too hot. Also buy a better quality thermostat, there more accurate than the ones you get from over the counter at parts house.


1972 chevelle with brokedown 396
0-60 as fast as wife can push:D
 
I was running 180 all day long with a 180 degree stat and decided to change my carb to an edelbrock 1411 in which was to lean for engine and caused it to overheat.

1972 chevelle with brokedown 396
0-60 as fast as wife can push:D


Hmmmmm
Same carb I have on the 59--------perhaps I should step it up a bit, as mine is running warm @ cruise----but cools @ idle
 
You can try a 180 or a 195..this will keep the coolant in radiator longer to allow more cooling time of coolant before re-entering engine..
Total mythology.

It's not a matter of cooling-off time; it's a matter of thermodynamics. Up to the point of cavitation (particularly in the water pump) faster flow will improve cooling by transporting more coolant--and therefore more BTUs--from engine to radiator.

Don't think I'm a fan of 160 degree thermostats--I'm absolutely NOT. Yes, I'd want a 180 or 195 thermostat. (That's what's in my vehicles now; and I ran a 205 thermostat in my work truck for many years) I'm just taking issue with the urban legend of slowing down coolant flow to allow more cooling-off time in the rad.

My first guess: As soon as the original poster said he had an electric fan, I figured that is the main part of the problem. It takes a huge electric fan to equal a good 7-blade fan and thermostatic clutch.

The original poster also said he has 38 degrees of timing advance "without vacuum". If that means he's disabled the vacuum advance, there's another share of the problem--not enough advance.

Beyond that--there's the usual suspects, most of which have been mentioned previously:
Plugged radiator coolant tubes
Corroded or bend radiator air fins (especially in areas where there's salt on the roads in the winter)
Missing air dam under rad support
Lean air/fuel ratio
Defective water pump
Defective (collapsing) lower rad hose--usually coupled with a defective rad cap.
Low coolant level--may also indicate compression pressure is entering water jacket of engine
Defective thermostat
Fan(s) turning "backwards" blowing air the wrong direction.



And of course the ever-popular "temp gauge isn't calibrated correctly" and there is no overheating problem.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I will verify new thermostat at 180 degrees, ordered new fan shroud from summit and will change from electric fan to SS flex fan if the obove changes don't work. It over flowed this past weekend when I shut it down at 230 degrees. I have the total advance without vacuum set at 38 degrees but after its set I reattach the vacuum line to carb. The elemination of the trans cooler running through the radiator made no difference. The temp still gets too hot! As for carb I am running a 850 cfm Holley. Would running a power value at 6.5 rather than at 5.0 cause it to run hot? My vacuum runs about 9 to 10 on my gauge.
 
[You can try a 180 or a 195..this will keep the coolant in radiator longer to allow more cooling time of coolant before re-entering engine]


With all due respect,and courtesy, this is an urban legend and does not pass the rule of physics. First off if you have a cooling problem with a 165 degree thermostat, you will have the same cooling problem with a 185,195, or whatever you choose. A thermostat regulates initial operational temperature, and has nothing to do with cooling capacity once it is opens. In a closed loop system the longer the coolant remains in the radiator, the longer it remains in the block. The key is to have more flow.
 
That fan will move a lot of air but unfortunately without a shroud, little of it will go through the radiator. Get some kind of shroud around it even if it's just a simple sheet metal cylinder. Right now, most of the air flows from the center of the fan directly off the tips of the blades. You need something to force it through the core.

Tom
GM was still making the 1970 fan shroud as little as 2 years ago when I bought mine. I think it was around $50-$60. Check with your local dealer.

I was told ages ago to run a 4 core radiator, so I did. No over heating here, even with 10.5:1 compression, on a 95 degree day.
 
My '72 was built with a 165 hp 350. I replaced it with a small block 434 running at about 540 hp. The only cooling things I changed: I replaced the factory fan with a 7 blade flex fan and made sure the shroud was totally sealed to the radiator with 1/8" think double back insullation tape from Home Depot and I am using a 160 degree thermostat. I have never seen the temp go over 200 degrees and that was on a hot day in traffic. I usually run about 175-185. Oh, also I replaced the pressure cap with a non-pressure type chrome cap.
You didn't say but have you opened the radiator cap and made sure there is a good water flow when the thermostat opens?
If a factory shroud and flex fan don't help, you could always try an aluminum radiator.
Good luck.
 
You can shove all the btu's in the radiator you want, but if the coolant is flowing faster than the radiator can dissapate them you've accomplished nothing by putting the warmer coolant back into the engine. The thermastat was designed just for the reason to allow proper operating temp and to allow radiator time to dissapate the heat from coolant before re-entering engine maintaining the proper coolant flow. High flow pumps aren't going to change much of anything when the thermastat is closed making the coolant sit on engine anyway. It will expell it from engine a little quicker when stat opens. If you want more flow and don't want coolant to sit on engine, then why even run a thermostat.
 
You can shove all the btu's in the radiator you want, but if the coolant is flowing faster than the radiator can dissapate them you've accomplished nothing by putting the warmer coolant back into the engine.
Nope.

The faster you flow the coolant, the better the engine cools.

Let's put this another way. You're heating the metal of the radiator by running hot water (coolant) through it. The more efficiently you can heat the radiator, the more the radiator can heat the air blowing through it. If you can heat the air, you've removed that energy from the coolant.

The thermastat was designed just for the reason to allow proper operating temp
Yes. By restricting flow to the radiator to CONSERVE heat, otherwise the radiator would over-cool the engine.
and to allow radiator time to dissapate the heat from coolant before re-entering engine maintaining the proper coolant flow.
No. Faster flow would over-cool the engine unless the cooling system is defective or under-sized.

High flow pumps aren't going to change much of anything when the thermastat is closed making the coolant sit on engine anyway. It will expell it from engine a little quicker when stat opens.
True. The high-flow pumps don't do anything better than an "ordinary" pump until the thermostat is nicely open. Then they "could" make a difference.

I think it's more important that the flow characteristics of the pump be matched to the expected engine RPM level. An engine that spends a lot of time at idle and low-RPM (but may be worked hard at that RPM level) is going to need a pump and pulley system that moves coolant at that low engine speed. Such a pump and pulley system may cavitate at high speed, losing efficiency and causing overheating. Conversely, a pump and pulley system that is designed for high speed may not pump enough coolant at low speed.

Yup, life is about compromise...

If you want more flow and don't want coolant to sit on engine, then why even run a thermostat.
The thermostat is primarily to allow the engine to WARM UP in a reasonable amount of time; and secondarily to maintain an even and appropriate temperature under varying operating conditions. The thermostat is the "throttle" for the cooling system. The throttle opens as you need to reject more heat, and closes to conserve that heat when the engine isn't producing as much heat.

The first requirement for this to happen is that the cooling system has to be able to reject the maximum amount of heat that the engine can produce--and then that "maximum rejection" is "throttled" by varying the amount of coolant that goes through the radiator. Less flow = less heat rejected to the air stream. And since the cooling system has enough capacity, the temperature is kept relatively constant.

A considerable problem is too many people have a cooling system that has too little heat-rejection capacity to begin with--and the simple-but-wrong "fix" is to shove in a thermostat with a lower temperature--or--to pull the thing entirely out. Either way, there's less restriction to coolant flow. In a radiator with top 'n' bottom tanks, the top tank is both the inlet and the tank with the rad cap; too much dynamic pressure from the water pump can overload the relief valve of the rad cap and cause coolant loss. Since crossflow radiators have the radiator cap on the suction side, the rad cap doesn't "see" the additional dynamic pressure from the water pump and so crossflow radiators don't tend to overflow like downflow radiators do when the thermostat is removed.

Result: The engine runs hot because the cooling system is always near it's maximum capacity for heat rejection--or--a downflow radiator appears to be boiling over when the issue is too much static + dynamic pressure at the rad cap rather than too much temperature.
 
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