"Numbers Matching" not only refers to the casting numbers and dates, but also to the serial number (Vin#) STAMPED onto the engine and trans case as the car is being assembled.

To be truly Matching Numbers is to have the actual motor that was installed at the factory, not just a replacement from another 67 Chevelle.

In your case, you have to know what you want. If the Chevelle truly has the original motor, you can still drive it hard, but realize that if the engine goes and cannot be repaired, you might lose that "matching Numbers" value. Alot of folks simply place an engine from a 67 Chevelle and call it matching numbers, IMO they are wrong, but its up to the buyer. Nothing wrong with a non-matching numbers Chevelle, as long as you didn't pay for MN.

Yes, alot of these cars were abused and parts were replaced over the years, which is why a "Numbers Matching" car is far more rare than the average Chevelles.

As for the value, t usually a "restored" or original Chevelle with Matching Numbers will get more money than a similar one without the MN, but the buyer is going to be someone who wants a collectable piece, and probably not a car to thoroughly enjoy driving. The importance really is up to the owner though. Many people want to enjoy their Chevelle, and having a different (possibly bigger) engine adds to the enjoyment.

It another of those terms that incorrectly gets thrown around too much, like "restored."

[This message has been edited by 1966_L78 (edited 05-08-2001).]

 

In a nut shell:

NUMBERS MATCHING in it's purist meaning is Simple. You have the same exact engine, trans, rear, interior ( including color) and body paint color as was with the car the day it left the factory. Not a replacement engine of the same year, not a same year trans, or car painted a color that was available for that year car, etc., etc.,

Then there is the PERIOD CORRECT CAR, which has the drive train and body paint color/interior from a same year car, but it's not original to your specific car. Casting numbers correct is not the same as having your exact same components that came with your car when it left the factory.

Take the original Trans., I think you know that., as for having it installed...it's up to you...if it runs well with what is in there....might leave it as is unless you plan on showeing the car highly competively, like ISCA. Otherwise, it doesn't much matter untill time to sell, b/c aint nobody crawling under your car to check numbers on that Muncie at a show. Will it affect the value of the car, sure it will, but only when you go to sell,,,,so keep it just like the guy you are buying it from did.

Man, my nut shells get big.

good luck
Mike

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OK guys correct me if I am wrong here but only after 1968 or 1969 was when they started stamping the VIN number on the transmission. I went through this when I bought my 67SS. The motor numbers (VIN and Engine stamp) are original & correct but there was no way to prove that the trans was the original one...just that it was correct. The code on my axle tube says 3:55 posi. When I took the cover off 2 years ago to replace axle seals. it was a 3:55 posi. Was it the original that came with the car??? I don't know and could never prove one way or the other. I just know that it is correct.

So the long and the short of it is, generally one will pay more for a "matching numbers" car of equal condition but probably the most important and most paid attention to number is the Engine Stamp and VIN. If these match and have not been tampered with then you know that was the motor that left the factory in that car.

In your case I would leave the 70 trans in the car and make sure the Engine stamp and VIN number match if your concern is to have a "matching numbers" car (but take the 67 trans with you... one missed power shift and it is nice to have a spare on the shelf). Also on your 67 make sure the VIN begins with 138 or it is not a true SS. Even if the motor numbers don't match the car is more valuable if it is a true SS

I personally am not overly influenced by matching numbers as much as I used to be. I have seen too many nice cars with excellent motors in them and my interest in the hobby is cruizing and hangin out with my car freinds and not so much showing the car any more. My buddy has a 68SS hardtop (among others) with 6 or 7 year old crate LS6 motor in it that I would love to have and don't care that it is not "matching numbers

Mytmouse



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67 SS396 350HP 4 sp 3:55 Posi Butternut Yellow w/Black Vinyl
68 RS Z/28 302 350+Hp? 4sp 4:10 Posi, Euro Red on Black
70 SS396 350HP 4 sp 3:55 Posi, Black on Black

Mytmouse A.K.A. Robert Stacho
ACES Member # 04359

 

Mouse... I know that if you have the Protecto Plate to your car, the Trans. ID # is listed on that Metal Stamp Pad and that same # should be on your trans. Mine is that way and was also that way for my Black 66 SS I had a few years back., not sure that the VIN # is stamped on the trans, I'll have to check my resources on that, but if you have the protecto plate, then you can most certainly tell if you have the CORRECT Numbers Matching Trans in your 67.

Other comments are welcome.

Mike

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Mytmouse,
I've had many 66's (some with original trans), and the partial VIN was stamped on ALL of the transmissions(Muncies), even the 1966 dated ones.

I would have to agree, IMOo, that a matching number trans would not be as important as the engine.

And definitely take both trannys...

 

Mike,

I do have the POP (and original owners manual with my car) so thanks for the tip. Where would the number be on the trans that correlates to the number on the POP?? Looks like I will be crawling under my car this weekend.

Also, I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) about the VIN number only after 68 or so but it appears that at least in 1966L78 (thanks for the tip) case he has seen partial VIN's on earlier transmissions

I guess "only believe half of what you read" adage is true here

Thanks again for the tips guys...and Ken, hope some of this makes sense to you so you can make an informed decision. It might help if you post the numbers here or in the Tag Team board and get more input on what you are really looking at.

Mytmouse

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67 SS396 350HP 4 sp 3:55 Posi Butternut Yellow w/Black Vinyl
68 RS Z/28 302 350+Hp? 4sp 4:10 Posi, Euro Red on Black
70 SS396 350HP 4 sp 3:55 Posi, Black on Black

Mytmouse A.K.A. Robert Stacho
ACES Member # 04359

 

My '65 has a partial VIN on the trans. On my M20 it was found on one of the bolt flanges. If I recall correctly, it is on the TOP side of the flange. In other words, it could be rather tough to check on with the trans in the car. Again if I recall correctly, the trans number has the same series of letters and digits found on the engine pad which if it is numbers matching should match a portion of the body's complete VIN.

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On the topic of the partial VIN stamp on the engine and trans,

Chevy started doing the around 1963-64 on Corvettes and other high performace cars. While not all assembly plants were doing this to all cars, it was being phased in to include all cars up untill 1968 when it was federally mandated for all cars to have the partial VIN stamped on the engine, trans, frame and body. The engine and trans locations are widely known. The frame and body are a lot harder to find and were hidden.

The purpose was to help law enforcement and insurance investigators trace stolen cars and major parts, often called the COP VIN.


[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 05-08-2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE:
In a nut shell:

NUMBERS MATCHING in it's purist meaning is Simple. You have the same exact engine, trans, rear, interior ( including color)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect Mike, I know you said "in it's purist meaning" but I don't think most folks think "matching numbers" in general terms has anything to do with the color even though the paint code numbers might be wrong

I might be wrong but I think most people consider a car to be matching numbers if it just has the original engine even if it is a non original color

If you think about it, a car can always be painted back to the original color but once an engine is replaced it's gone for good so the color isn't really that inportant




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Dean Call
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No offense taken DEAN, but I still stand by that statement. If I am out to spend $20,000 + on a fully restored car and it's Marina Blue with a blue bench seat interior, but it is supposed to be Red with a Black bucket seat interior....even with the correct drive train, that isn't matching numbers in my book. The cost to change a car back to it's original color in and out is very steep, especially if said car is fully restored. The value of a car with the wrong paint/interior is not the same either. But again,, these are my personal feelings, others may feel different....I passed on several very nice 66's that had the correct drivetrain but non original paint.



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