If a person owns a 67 Malibu and he purchases the frame and title along with the vin tags of a 67 SS and proceeds to replace the frame, cowl and vin tags onthe Malibu with the ones from the SS is this illegal? He would have also took the body but it was way too rusted and not worth fixing so he left the body and took the original frame and tags. Why would this not be legal or perhaps it would be perfectly okay since he purchased legally the SS car just trashed the body. He has a good malibu body that is under restoration. What are the legalities and ramifications - I guess this would be classified as a rebody--is this cool with the Fuzz or what--Ive heard that this is done by body shops doing legit repairs and by restorers too....
vin tag swap questions-- need help
NOVA69SS
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
If a person owns a 67 Malibu and he purchases the frame and title along with the vin tags of a 67 SS and proceeds to replace the frame, cowl and vin tags onthe Malibu with the ones from the SS is this illegal? He would have also took the body but it was way too rusted and not worth fixing so he left the body and took the original frame and tags. Why would this not be legal or perhaps it would be perfectly okay since he purchased legally the SS car just trashed the body. He has a good malibu body that is under restoration. What are the legalities and ramifications - I guess this would be classified as a rebody--is this cool with the Fuzz or what--Ive heard that this is done by body shops doing legit repairs and by restorers too....
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
The removal of the VIN from the body is illegal in most states. There are however exceptions and only the state DMV office can fill you in on the correct method to do what you mention. Can it be done..sure, is it ok? guess it depends on your take on the hobby. sounds like he might have the right idea to do it according to the legal eagles but always check first before shelling out the cash on a project. I have seen many on here talk about it both ways, good and bad. I'd say just check with the local DMV and see what they say and go from there. hope that helps. Andy
Joined
·
734 Posts
SS69Chevelle said:
The problem here is the body con numbers will not match the new vin numbers. The state will have to issue you a new vin number and title.
Joined
·
8,690 Posts
As far as I know, changing VIN tags is illegal, and it should be if it isn't. As SS69Chevelle said, check with your state DMV.
You can change the trim tag, that's not illegal, just immoral and hateful, and done by con artists for the purpose of screwing people.
You can change the trim tag, that's not illegal, just immoral and hateful, and done by con artists for the purpose of screwing people.
On this malibu the full NOS quarters, doors, new fenders, full trunk and deck panel are to be changed
so really theres nothing much left from thje original malibu, in essence you are building an SS from the ground up and with the original frame from the SS being rolled under the Malibu I dont see why it would not be okay. Person owns the malibu and legally bought the SS Chevelle - has title to it - although junked the body and took the vin tags--its his car he should be able to do that . Thanks for the advice out there
so really theres nothing much left from thje original malibu, in essence you are building an SS from the ground up and with the original frame from the SS being rolled under the Malibu I dont see why it would not be okay. Person owns the malibu and legally bought the SS Chevelle - has title to it - although junked the body and took the vin tags--its his car he should be able to do that . Thanks for the advice out there
Sure its his car and he can do whatever he wants. But he better be warned that if he ever sells the car and does not diclose this, he can be sued for fraud.
I just heard about someone who got taken on a fake Camaro SS built similar to this and they are taking legal action against the seller. They want to see him in jail and sued for every penny. And the got the money and lawyer to do just that, some don't take getting screwed and this would be screwing someone with a fake SS 396 IMO.
There was an auto body guy around here about 10 yrs back who would restore Chevy pu's and turn around and sell them. Rust is problem in this area so cabs, boxs are often replaced. Well one of those many trucks came back and bite him is the butt big time. He sold a 1986 Chevy PU to a young girl and her parents paid for it. But he never disclosed that he replaced just about everything on the truck less the frame. It was a nice looking 4x4 short box. But one day she was heading down the highway and an on coming car crossed the C/L and hit her vehicle and she later died. Well the insurance adjuster found that the VIN plate (not legal to do without state consent) was changed and he found the hidden VIN's. So they had problems with the insurance paying and got a lawyer. The body man was lucky to stay out of jail, he was sued to the hilt. lost his business which was not all that much. He can't find a reputable body shop job anywhere. A quick $$ runied his life and made his some enemies.
I just heard about someone who got taken on a fake Camaro SS built similar to this and they are taking legal action against the seller. They want to see him in jail and sued for every penny. And the got the money and lawyer to do just that, some don't take getting screwed and this would be screwing someone with a fake SS 396 IMO.
There was an auto body guy around here about 10 yrs back who would restore Chevy pu's and turn around and sell them. Rust is problem in this area so cabs, boxs are often replaced. Well one of those many trucks came back and bite him is the butt big time. He sold a 1986 Chevy PU to a young girl and her parents paid for it. But he never disclosed that he replaced just about everything on the truck less the frame. It was a nice looking 4x4 short box. But one day she was heading down the highway and an on coming car crossed the C/L and hit her vehicle and she later died. Well the insurance adjuster found that the VIN plate (not legal to do without state consent) was changed and he found the hidden VIN's. So they had problems with the insurance paying and got a lawyer. The body man was lucky to stay out of jail, he was sued to the hilt. lost his business which was not all that much. He can't find a reputable body shop job anywhere. A quick $$ runied his life and made his some enemies.
Joined
·
15,748 Posts
There are legit reasons to remove a VIN tag... this is not one of them.
If the guy really wants a "true SS" but the body is trashed, he should put the whole SS car's cowl on the Malibu body, leaving the tags in-tact. This would be both legal, and not fraudulent.
If the guy really wants a "true SS" but the body is trashed, he should put the whole SS car's cowl on the Malibu body, leaving the tags in-tact. This would be both legal, and not fraudulent.
Joined
·
5,268 Posts
It is illegal to swap a VIN tag from one car to another PERIOD.
VIN= Vehicle Identification Number!
I have a better idea, why don't you call your local Highway Patrol office and tell them what your proposing to do and see what they say. I'm sure that they can give you the correct answer, and that way you really know for sure.
Rocky
VIN= Vehicle Identification Number!
I have a better idea, why don't you call your local Highway Patrol office and tell them what your proposing to do and see what they say. I'm sure that they can give you the correct answer, and that way you really know for sure.
Rocky
Apparently some of you take this forum a tad too seriously and also are perhaps not thoroughly reading and digesting these posts before jumping to conclusions
and shooting off at the mouth. The purpose of posting a question or inquiry is
primarily to get feedback and advice. Yeah everyones got their own opinion and moral position but people shouldnt jump to conclusions and start getting all
judgemental --- dudes, relax. Im just trying to get some info and friendly advice
on whats been done and why it is or isnt correct, moral, legal and what all. Im a novice. Many thanks
and shooting off at the mouth. The purpose of posting a question or inquiry is
primarily to get feedback and advice. Yeah everyones got their own opinion and moral position but people shouldnt jump to conclusions and start getting all
judgemental --- dudes, relax. Im just trying to get some info and friendly advice
on whats been done and why it is or isnt correct, moral, legal and what all. Im a novice. Many thanks
Joined
·
5,268 Posts
NOVA69SS said:
And you got exactly what you paid for! nobody is uptight or tense, most on here are not novices and do indeed know what we are talking about!
We just get tired of hearing about some poor schlep who paid good money for a car only to find out some knothead sold him a car with a phony VIN tag.
Like it or not VIN tag swapping is illegal, immoral, and constitutes fraud when sold. You asked, we answered.
Rocky
Joined
·
8,690 Posts
The state would most likely issue a totally new VIN. Which means that any "collectability" of that car is now reduced. Similar to having a "Salvage" title for a car: the whole world will know that it had major problems needing serious repair; it is not a car to be trusted.
Joined
·
41,598 Posts
You ask your local DMV.ChaosEnvy said:
I'ts NOT the member's opinions Nova it's the law.
Yes it can be done all legal like but you have to do it through your DMV or Highway Patrol.
There is no reason to change VIN tags to replace a frame except to fool someone into thinking a Malibu is an SS.
NOVA69SS, Chill out as well as people are only trying to help you out here regarding your question. Discussion on a board like this is not the same as talking with people in person. Typed words cannot be interpreted as well as actual conversation. This situation was discussed in detail many times here on the forum. There was a post one time by someone that a Chevelle full body replacement was available from Chevy and it called out as an individual part number of somone or some bodyshop needed replace a body as a result fo the immense of amount of costs, time, and material it would require to rebuild a wrecked body or a rusted out body (Chevelle, Malibu or SS). A VIN tag was needed to be attached to the new body (or existing replacement body). As far as I know (and I'm not an authority on this), VIN tags were not reissued by Chevy (or its authorized dealers), so it is most likely that the VIN tag from the wrecked or rusted out body was removed and attached to the "new" body. The conclusion is that either a brand new body or one taken from another SS or Malibu would still be as legit as the old one as long as the replacement body was not stolen or part of any type of illegal activity). Do a search on TC and you will find there has long been a debate on this subject.
Also, if one is doing this immorally, evading the law, etc., then I can see other points of view. If one is doing this legitimately (which obviously some have voiced their very strong opinions of it that it is not a legitmate thing to do in any way, shape or form), I don't see anything wrong with it. It's your friends car, and what he wants to do regardless of the opinions you received, it ultimately up to him to deal with any consequences that result.
Also, if one is doing this immorally, evading the law, etc., then I can see other points of view. If one is doing this legitimately (which obviously some have voiced their very strong opinions of it that it is not a legitmate thing to do in any way, shape or form), I don't see anything wrong with it. It's your friends car, and what he wants to do regardless of the opinions you received, it ultimately up to him to deal with any consequences that result.
I agree...Bcool said:
It doesn't matter if you grandfather was the original owner of that SS, the ONLY reason to do this swap would be to place the owner in a "better" position, either financially or ego-wise ("I have a rear SS")...
You can build a clone that is impossible to tell from a true SS (except the VIN tag), have identical performance, etc... So the ONLY reason to "create" the car as an SS is to defraud someone, somehow (maybe money or a show trophy, etc)...
Of course, thats one of the reasons why its illegal...
Let me ask you this: IF a malibu and a SuperSport ONLY differ by the VIN and some bolt-on equipment (most of which was optional on both models), then why is a clone worth less??? (okay, a little rhetorical). The SS car is value higher because people are willing to pay more for the car that was built that way originally... Duh! this new "Malibu/SS" was NOT built that way originally... Its is a clone...
Too serious??? With the value of old cars these days, the difference between a "real" SS and a "clone" can be many thousands of dollars... And since we are the enthusiast, we are the ones that see people get taken all the time...Nova69SS said:
Morally, legally, if this has already been done, then a visit to the DMV/Highway patrol should straighten things out...
I agree with Dean, you talk to the DMV or Highway Patrol... They will attach a NEW VIN plate (same numbers, after they verify them). Usually attached in a different place (like the rear part of the door jamb, etc)ChaosEnvy said:
My good friend bought a 66 Malibu "clone" with a missing VIN tag (it was represented as a clone though). The California Highway patrol verified the true VIN, and attached a "State Issued" VIN tag... Same Number as original (136176Z######), just a newer tag with "State of California" on it... Pretty sure most states would probably do the same... For most people, the value shouldn't be affected...
the original poster mentioned that someone removed the tags and scrapped the body... I think its illegal to tamper with the tags, even if you are scrapping the body... the tags "legally" should have been scrapped with the tags...Schurkey said:
I wonder how the body was scrapped too... Years ago, I knew a guy that did this (removed tags), and the wrecking yard wouldn't take the bare body shell... The yard was worried about having a potentially "stolen" car...
I think that many of you are correct in your various views and experiences but probobly the best advice that I come away with from everyone on here is to check with the authorities in my particular state and fully explain the idea and see what they say. Im sure that is always the best route and Im not on here suggesting doing otherwise.Just one last thought -- if its okay to cut the firewall off a SS car with its vin tags in place and transplant it onto a Malibu or another SS for that matter (which is the impression I get from some of what Ive read) then why on earth is it not okay to simply remove the tags and transplant just the tags---I dont see a difference except a boat load of cutting and welding and very expensive work
that would have to be done by a very good craftsman in order to even be correct.
Just a thought. Anyway I do appreciate and respect everyones input and opinion.
that would have to be done by a very good craftsman in order to even be correct.
Just a thought. Anyway I do appreciate and respect everyones input and opinion.
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
