Attn Wolfplace and Others on BBC Heads

I am torn between getting the 325 CNC chambers. I dont think im quite going to be able to afford the 335CC full CNC'd heads. Problem is the 121cc chamber will drop my static and Dynamic compression under what i wanted, but if i have them milled to say 114-116cc will i lose the flow gains from CNC chambers and bowl blend?

Thanks i know im being a pain, but i cant afford to make mistakes with this engine.

Shawn

Shawn, your previous post stated CR of 10.4-10.8 as I remember with 118cc heads. An 121cc head won't drop your CR that you would notice! This isn't an all out race deal but a street/strip car right? With the octane of gas only going down think it would be wise to stay on the low side! Ron454's combo has 9.4cr. and he is awfully close to hittin 9's! Sure later on you could mill heads if you wanted to down to that 114cc! And the smaller heads will run fine even on a larger ci engine. Better small than large in this case! Seems consensus here on TC backs all this up hey? Your getting closer to finishing that bad boy!

Dominate67 said:

I am torn between getting the 325 CNC chambers. I dont think im quite going to be able to afford the 335CC full CNC'd heads. Problem is the 121cc chamber will drop my static and Dynamic compression under what i wanted, but if i have them milled to say 114-116cc will i lose the flow gains from CNC chambers and bowl blend?
Thanks i know im being a pain, but i cant afford to make mistakes with this engine.
Shawn

Click to expand...

Hi Shawn, you'd better be able to cc those heads on your own. We have 2 sets in to test with in the near future. BOTH sets #2001's are the 335's and CNC'd. On three, that's correct, three different Superflow benches we can't get anywhere near the numbers that are advertised, 400+. Also, one set is at 116 and 117 cc's, the other set is at 117 and 118 cc's. Remember these are the "121 cc", cnc'd heads. One set is actually a replacement that went back to AFR, directly to Tony M. and he personally "hand-picked" one pair of these because there were "issues" with the originals. We were totally dissappointed as IS my customer. He's resolved to the fact he is basically
"stuck" with them at this point. We already know we aren't going to get the power we need with these 4 heads, from the flow bench numbers. I had spoke to "David" out there and was told they're tested on 4.500" bore, yet at the time the web-site stated 4.600" bore. One pair is destined for a 4.310" bore, bad choice of head on the customers part here. I warned him about the test numbers AND the bore differences. He spoke with them on the phone and was never told about lower numbers on smaller bores by anyone out at AFR. They probably would have lost the sale!

I'm not going to dispute those flow numbers here due to variations in different flow benches AND operators. But most "burettes" are pretty accurate and we used it on all four heads! I did take a "tongue-lashing" from Mr. Mamo, but later he admitted at the time that the first set was "not-as-advertised" when they were returned. In any event my customer got the replacements.

If there's room in the budget AND you want to make real power you'd be wise to stick with "Brodix". We see all these heads in the dyno room on our own units and many tests we run for area builders. The only heads we don't see too much of are the "Edelbrocks". And we feel they have an excellent head also. The cnc'd chambers are a good idea, saves time, but we usually do all our own in-house porting. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.


P.S. One of the items I was dissapointed in myself, was the fact they charged him some $3200.00, or there abouts, and sent the heads through with "Chrome-Moly" retainers instead of "Titanium". My customer should have known better, but for that price AND type of head there's no reason for steel retainers! You're talking maybe a $60.00 difference. I have a 1/2 dozen broken "Chrome-Moly's" here over the years. Plain old "stress cracks".

GOSFAST said:

Hi Shawn, you'd better be able to cc those heads on your own. We have 2 sets in to test with in the near future. BOTH sets #2001's are the 335's and CNC'd. On three, that's correct, three different Superflow benches we can't get anywhere near the numbers that are advertised, 400+. Also, one set is at 116 and 117 cc's, the other set is at 117 and 118 cc's. Remember these are the "121 cc", cnc'd heads. One set is actually a replacement that went back to AFR, directly to Tony M. and he personally "hand-picked" one pair of these because there were "issues" with the originals. We were totally dissappointed as IS my customer. He's resolved to the fact he is basically
"stuck" with them at this point. We already know we aren't going to get the power we need with these 4 heads, from the flow bench numbers. I had spoke to "David" out there and was told they're tested on 4.500" bore, yet at the time the web-site stated 4.600" bore. One pair is destined for a 4.310" bore, bad choice of head on the customers part here. I warned him about the test numbers AND the bore differences. He spoke with them on the phone and was never told about lower numbers on smaller bores by anyone out at AFR. They probably would have lost the sale!

I'm not going to dispute those flow numbers here due to variations in different flow benches AND operators. But most "burettes" are pretty accurate and we used it on all four heads! I did take a "tongue-lashing" from Mr. Mamo, but later he admitted at the time that the first set was "not-as-advertised" when they were returned. In any event my customer got the replacements.

If there's room in the budget AND you want to make real power you'd be wise to stick with "Brodix". We see all these heads in the dyno room on our own units and many tests we run for area builders. The only heads we don't see too much of are the "Edelbrocks". And we feel they have an excellent head also. The cnc'd chambers are a good idea, saves time, but we usually do all our own in-house porting. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.


P.S. One of the items I was dissapointed in myself, was the fact they charged him some $3200.00, or there abouts, and sent the heads through with "Chrome-Moly" retainers instead of "Titanium". My customer should have known better, but for that price AND type of head there's no reason for steel retainers! You're talking maybe a $60.00 difference. I have a 1/2 dozen broken "Chrome-Moly's" here over the years. Plain old "stress cracks".

Click to expand...

I agree with you Gary about the retainers. If the guy paid for Titanium retainers i'd call Tony and get them exchanged. Our set of "AFR 357 CNC" heads didn't flow as advertised in the mid lifts but they perform very well on the car. My son made two motor passes with a nitrous cam 3.50 rear end gears at 3530 lbs. and ran right at 145.5 MPH on both runs, so don't get discouraged just yet. Fix whats really obviously wrong (retainers) and give the heads a try. They might run better than you expect. I found Tony very helpful if you can talk to him directly, don't deal with anybody else as things tend to get messed up if you deal with his salesmen.

GOSFAST said:

Hi Shawn, you'd better be able to cc those heads on your own. We have 2 sets in to test with in the near future. BOTH sets #2001's are the 335's and CNC'd. On three, that's correct, three different Superflow benches we can't get anywhere near the numbers that are advertised, 400+. Also, one set is at 116 and 117 cc's, the other set is at 117 and 118 cc's. Remember these are the "121 cc", cnc'd heads. One set is actually a replacement that went back to AFR, directly to Tony M. and he personally "hand-picked" one pair of these because there were "issues" with the originals. We were totally dissappointed as IS my customer. He's resolved to the fact he is basically
"stuck" with them at this point. We already know we aren't going to get the power we need with these 4 heads, from the flow bench numbers. I had spoke to "David" out there and was told they're tested on 4.500" bore, yet at the time the web-site stated 4.600" bore. One pair is destined for a 4.310" bore, bad choice of head on the customers part here. I warned him about the test numbers AND the bore differences. He spoke with them on the phone and was never told about lower numbers on smaller bores by anyone out at AFR. They probably would have lost the sale!

I'm not going to dispute those flow numbers here due to variations in different flow benches AND operators. But most "burettes" are pretty accurate and we used it on all four heads! I did take a "tongue-lashing" from Mr. Mamo, but later he admitted at the time that the first set was "not-as-advertised" when they were returned. In any event my customer got the replacements.

If there's room in the budget AND you want to make real power you'd be wise to stick with "Brodix". We see all these heads in the dyno room on our own units and many tests we run for area builders. The only heads we don't see too much of are the "Edelbrocks". And we feel they have an excellent head also. The cnc'd chambers are a good idea, saves time, but we usually do all our own in-house porting. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.


P.S. One of the items I was dissapointed in myself, was the fact they charged him some $3200.00, or there abouts, and sent the heads through with "Chrome-Moly" retainers instead of "Titanium". My customer should have known better, but for that price AND type of head there's no reason for steel retainers! You're talking maybe a $60.00 difference. I have a 1/2 dozen broken "Chrome-Moly's" here over the years. Plain old "stress cracks".

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=


And this "useful" tidbit of information from the gentleman that has brought you such well informed things as Torque plates are completely unnecessary from his testing,, everyone is wrong in following the newest guidelines in ring gapping,,,

First off, the heads do not come with nor are they advertised as coming with Titanium retainers.
As for steel retainers cracking, Titanium is much more likely to crack in extended use than steel but I must be doing something wrong as I haven't really had an issue with either if it was a quality piece.
They are an option just like the Manley Nextek spring is an option, just like Inconel valves are an option,,, the list goes on & none of this is a secret or is hidden in any way.

If Titanium retainers were paid for & a mistake was made, all that needs to be done is make a damn phone call

I have posted a number of times the difference in flow numbers between different bore sizes & this applies to all heads, not just AFR.
This is not an industry secret & has never been hidden.
Here is a post I have put out there many times comparing different heads & the AFR intake flow difference on big & small bores.
This is on my bench under the same conditions not anything advertised.
I also have the numbers for the 335's off of my bench if anyone would care to see them. Two sets in fact.
And there are at least three active members on here that have been to my shop & seen these numbers in person & can verify this is not advertising BS.

781's Mild bowl port 2.19/1,88
.05 - 40/33
1 -69 / 56
2 - 158 / 102
3 - 217 / 135
4 - 254 / 161
5 - 263 / 186
6 - 274 / 209
7 - 272 / 219
==============
Perf RPM #60459 290cc Intake port 2.19x1.88 110cc chamber
"Good port"
.050 - 41/ 32
.100 - 73/ 64
.200 - 148/119
.300 - 218/149
.400 - 268/179
.500 - 304/207
.600 - 317/229
.700 - 319/245
================
RR OVAL 270cc port
.050 - 42/33
100 - 77/65
200 - 152/118
300 - 224/147
400 - 283/178
500 - 318/205
600 - 344/230
700 - 347/248
=============

AFR 315 CNC
4.530" ===========4.310" bore
..050 - 40/34 =======43.4
.100 - 78/69 ========78.1
.200 - 164/142.5 =====162.3
.300 - 247/198 ======239.5
.400 - 309/240====== 290
.500 - 350/267 ======334.4
.600 - 375/280 ======358.3
.700 - 383/283 ======374
.800 - 381/286 ======377

All tests @ 28", radius inlet, no pipe, 4.530 bore except the 315intake on the 4.310 bore




I have never had a serious issue with AFR heads although I am sure just like any other company there is going to be some on occasion.
It is the way they are handled if one comes up that separates the companies.
You are welcome to call Tony Mamo at 818 890-0616 ext 109 & discuss any concerns directly with him.
He is a good friend, a stand up individual & will not BS you.

AFR has, as far as I know, always used a 4.600 bore fixture to flow the BB heads & stated such. A 4.500 will show very little loss
A 4.310 will in fact show a substantial loss but again, this is what will happen with any head out there & they are all using the bigger fixtures for advertised numbers.
In my opinion Gary is full of crap in trying to make it appear AFR is deceiving anyone.
Also, if he is half a smart as he purports to be he would not fail to mention that there is way more to a port design than just flow numbers.
If he flows any head on a small fixture it is going to be down from advertised.& in my opinion most of that post is misinformation as well as misleading.
There are way too many satisfied customers out there for the bulk of it to be factual.

I happen to sell both AFR & Brodix & can say with all honesty that they are BOTH excellent heads & BOTH in my experience very stand up companies.
As for Tony, he is a very stand up individual as well as a good friend.
Almost anyone on this board that has dealt with him can attest to this as well as the fact he will go out of his way in assisting with a combination of parts to help you.


Shawn, if wish to call Tony directly I am sure he will be glad to give you a list of satisfied customers as well as factual information regarding any issue AFR heads may have or have had & will tell you as I will that the design of these heads is always ongoing & if an improvement is found it is incorporated in all new heads.
This should go without saying with any company that cares about it's product.

Dominate67 said:

I am torn between getting the 325 CNC chambers. I dont think im quite going to be able to afford the 335CC full CNC'd heads. Problem is the 121cc chamber will drop my static and Dynamic compression under what i wanted, but if i have them milled to say 114-116cc will i lose the flow gains from CNC chambers and bowl blend?

Thanks i know im being a pain, but i cant afford to make mistakes with this engine.

Shawn

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Hi Shawn,
Sorry for not answering your question, got a bit carried away addresing,,, never mind,,, :sad: ,,,,

The flow will drop but no where near what you gain with the CNC chamber option.
I just flowed a set of 335's that were milled to 114 I think for another member on here & the loss was minimal.

:thumbsup: Mike

Wow!! Thanks for all the info guys. I didnt mean to start an argument. When i am at this stage i get very nervous i dont mean to split hairs. The first poster was right. With the Eagle rotating assembly #11512 i get 4.25 crank, 6.8 inch rods, and 18cc pistons. This will have a .005 deck height due to the 6.8 rod and will net 10.3 with 118cc heads and 10.0 with 121cc ( cnc chambered ) heads. I was trying to figure a way for around 10.5 to 1 compression ( 116cc ). Forgive me fellas, but ive been building small blocks so long its against my nature to use a 255/263 @ .050 cam with 110/106 lsa, ic with 10.0 to 1 compression. i may be way to concerned about this. In fact im sure i wont be able to even utilize the power this engine will make this year for chassis tuning. I dont want to become a nuisance. Yes it will be a street car, but it will be a max effort street car, because most of my enemies dont hold themselves to the rules of actually having a street car. Example last week once again i Drove my car 20 miles to race a guy thinking i was meeting him half way only to find out he lived about 3/4 mile down the gravel road next to the spot we raced. Yea i won, but thats typical, some yaahoo will pull out his slicked up 12.5 go 1 compressioned roll caged 5.13 geared race car with working headlights call his **** a street car and sneak up ot where we race at or trailer his **** real close and unload it ect ect. But hey these are the races i can get and i like to race so i put up with it. The nearest track is 160 miles and i go 3-4 times a year.

Anyway thanks for any info Does anyone know a reasonable Eagle dealer i can get that assembly from?

Harold Sutton said:

I agree with you Gary about the retainers. If the guy paid for Titanium retainers i'd call Tony and get them exchanged. Our set of "AFR 357 CNC" heads didn't flow as advertised in the mid lifts but they perform very well on the car. My son made two motor passes with a nitrous cam 3.50 rear end gears at 3530 lbs. and ran right at 145.5 MPH on both runs, so don't get discouraged just yet. Fix whats really obviously wrong (retainers) and give the heads a try. They might run better than you expect. I found Tony very helpful if you can talk to him directly, don't deal with anybody else as things tend to get messed up if you deal with his salesmen.

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Hi Harold, just to keep the record the straight, the customer wasn't cheated, he paid for and got steel retainers. I was dissappointed AFR didn't explain to him about the Titaniums. He never "squawked" about pricing, he simply wanted the "best". That's what he asked for, "the best", and no upgrade recommendation was made on their end.

As for the cc's, they're all over the place. Different from set to set AND different from head to head in each set. Tony Mamo himself "hand-picked" this one pair of heads for my customer, this is what I was told from Tony's lips to my ears on MY phone! He admitted to me the first pair was "defective" during that same phone conversation, and sent my customer this second set! This is all fact!

Now as for the flow numbers, the one pair here, again the ones he picked out, get up to 377 @ .750" and then go DOWN. Tested on a 4.500" bore. The exhaust's were acceptible. The intakes reversed! We do know why and we'll correct it. Don't take this as anything against AFR, we see it with many different brands. We were glad to see Ferrea's valves in the heads, some of the best around. All these particular issues combined stop us from ordering ANY pre-assembled heads, no matter the brand!

On a final note to the both intake and exhaust valves. The 2.300" valves make any appreciable milling almost impossible. This is NOT an issue with AFR alone, it's their choice to go that size. We are more comfortable with the 2.250" intakes due to any add'l milling required. The edge of the intake valve seats are at very end of the chambers. And to the exhaust's, it appears they may have made a last minute "design" change and installed the 1297 Ferrea exhaust valves. What they didn't realize (maybe) was the fact that the head of that particular number creates 2 problems, both minor. The valve weighs some 25 grams heavier than a conventional headed one AND being it's much bigger (massive) it subtracts 2-3 cc's in the chambers. Anyone up here can test this! THIS issue MAY explain the cc differences from the advertised numbers to the real ones. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The point here is this: if possible, check all measurements/dimensions on your own. Take nothing for granted! We will make the heads work. They'll be on the dyno in a few weeks. I'm not going to hold this one unit as "valid" AFR test however due to the fact my customer is dictating the choice of components including intake, carb, cam, headers, etc. He already chose the wrong intake and carb! He's on his way today to choosing the wrong cam also.

I did realize that with my 4.350 bore flow would be a bit down from the 4.5/4.6 bore the advertised numbers are sure to flow.

Im surprised to hear that cnc chambers vary that much in CC.

I am also now confused to which valve to order because i do plan to have them milled to provide 116cc chambers. From what i read thats .006 per cc so what .040 needs taken off. Hope there is enough room with those valves.




Tell you guys this much im glad to have such a great source for information.
thanks to all.

Shawn

For the record...
I didn't have any issues when angle milling my set of AFR 335 heads, complete WITH 2.300" intakes and the optional Nextek 1.625" springs/titanium retainers, down to 108cc chambers (from 121).
Thanks again Mike for all your help! :thumbsup:

You can argue heads, cams, intakes, compression, pistons, rod ratio. . .all of it. . .bottom line if all the components are not matched for a combination I don't care how much money you spend the engine will not run.

There is good advice to be found on these boards but you need to take it and discuss it with the person that is going to build the engine. . .and this is key. . .whatever they say in the end is what you need to do. Then if the combo doesn't run they have to answer to you. 20 guys on keyboards won't answer you.

Bring all of this up with your engine guy and then set out on a receipe for success. If you don't get there the first time then back up. . .analyze and try again.

jbird said:

Gary, I told you it would be unpopular. I still find it interesting about the cc of the chambers. My Pro-Toplines measured about 123/124(they weren't the same), when they were supposed to be 119. But, I would have thought "CNC'ed" chambers would be much closer. Maybe it was my valves that were different as well? Anyway, your absolutely right about checking everything and not taking anything for granted. That will get you in trouble every time!

Mike, I really didn't take Gary's post as being anti-AFR(as if you care what I think anyway). Just information on this particular experience with them. I'm sure Tony would fill you in if you wanted him to. Anyway, I sometimes have to wonder about the infatuation with AFR heads some on this website have. I guess it's just brand loyalty, the same as with brand-X cams and so forth. They definitely have a great following here!

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Jay,
I did take it as being anti AFR but he addressed part of the misleading information this morning.
May have just been wording but it came off like AFR had ripped his customer regarding retainers,,
If his customer was not informed of his choices than I will agree this was a mistake on AFR's part but I wasn't there so I have no clue of the conversation.
I get a lot of people who do not wish to make the upgrade due to the price of Titanium now which is hardly $60 anymore.
More like $200 from everyone, AFR, Brodix, Manley Comp etc.
I have to respect the wishes of my customer as it is their money & ultimately their decision how to spend it,
All I can do is offer my opinion,,,

Actually I do value your opinion & enjoy reading your posts.
But,, I do not like misleading or misinformation & as for brand loyalty, reread my post.
I do happen to feel that AFR is at the top of the food chain when it comes to an out of the box cylinder head but as I stated I have the same respect for Brodix & if I feel something other than AFR is a better choice I will & have recommended it.
You can make a lot of different heads perform very well if you have access to a good head porter & a machine shop but the majority here do not have this luxury & want a head that will perform as delivered.

I in fact have two sets of RHS/ProAction small block deals I am doing right now & you would probably be very surprised at who is doing the porting for me as I am not nor did I ever claim to be a cylinder head expert,,,

Should you check everything,, hell yes on this even I will agree with what's his name & I check what comes through my shop pretty well regardless of where it comes from.

As for 2.300 valves & milling, again complete misinformation.
AFR heads will easily go to 110 & lower with no problem what so ever.
This is fact.
I have just flowed two sets of AFR 335 CNC'd heads & neither "backed up" at least to .800 where I stopped testing,, again, this is fact.

And I do not get any special treatment, pricing or favors from AFR, (well, except for a dinner or two & great company at the PRI show )
Just another dealer that happens to believe they have an excellent product & at least in my experience very good customer service the majority of the time.
Again,, always exceptions but in some cases this may have more to do with the way the problem was approached,,
Don't know, was not privy to the exchange & Tony does not confide in me regarding his dealings with other customers, not that kind of guy
===

Shawn,
You did not start an argument & have nothing to be sorry for. You were just asking valid questions which deserve the respect of an answer.
And I agree with Harold that the CNC chamber head is a very good value at about $800 less as I believe you already know as you have emailed me I think.
This is Shawn G correct?
BTW, the AFR exhaust port is only raised .375 compared to the .600 of some others.

Thanks for the reply Wolfplace,

Yes this is Shawn G. I think that is what im going to setting on the 325's with CNC chamber option milled to 116. That gives me a little head room if i want the heads fully ported later and/or upgrade my engine combo. Im sure that will be more head that my little engine will need. Durn i seen 468's with 990's and roller cams running 6.3's at the track ( 12 to 1 CR ), just this last weekend.


I really enjoy reading all these post and learning more about the sport everyday.
I am full of questions because i have never built what i consider a serious Big Block. Hope i dont get to worrysome for you folks.

BTW- Wolf what does it usually cost to get a set of heads flow checked and send a sheet with them?



Shawn

Hello Everyone...

Just thought I would drop in and say hello. Seems my name comes up fairly often (sometimes more often then necessary) and as much as I would like to post on ALL the boards there is only so much time in the day. Anyway, I am going to make an effort to get on here as much as I can and help you guys out, but I have to tell you that Mike @ Wolfeplace does about as good a job as any and you guys are lucky to have his input and involvement here. He is honest, down to earth, easy to speak with, and is really no different than you and I (performance enthusiasts) but just so happens to have a machine shop and dyno buried somewhere in the woods of Northern California (and knows how to use both....LOL) Mike, I promise I'm going to grab the wife and make it up there someday.I would like to see the "wolves" first hand....from a distance of course. Seriously....kudos to Mike....he is a big asset to you guys on this board.

Gary....based on this and many other posts, it's painfully obvious you aren't an AFR fan. I haven't spoke with you in two years at least but you lead these people to believe by the way you write that we had a conversation practically yesterday. I have seen you post time and time again about me handpicking a set of heads for you, giving you a tongue lashing, telling you how to operate a flowbench (then "backpeddling" when I found out you already knew, etc. etc.) and for the life of me can't remember exactly what happened exept the fact I think you had a set of heads that the chamber volume was off on and you claimed didn't flow. Bottom line is I don't conduct myself on the phone that way and quite frankly am sick of seeing you drag myself and AFR into these public forums. In the past Ive just been too damn busy to type but enough is enough and I decided to make time today. If you have some issues STILL lets pick up the phone and get some things resolved.

Assuming Gary's past issues were chamber volume discrepancies and/or flownumbers, I would like to take the time here to touch on both for the benefit of those reading this board. First off, in big blinking lights, AFR guarantee's the flow information we advertise in our catalog and on our website to be plus or minus 3% (It's not a rare occurence to get a call from a shop saying they went more than we advertise). Our advertised numbers represent the "average" numbers a production piece leaving our shop is expected to flow. Some might leave a little stronger....others a little softer, but the majority will be right around our catalog #'s. I could go into a two page disertation of flow bench testing and how critical the bore size and fixtures are to achieve these numbers, but if tested properly with similar equipment, our flow data should be close to spot on. Milling, often overlooked , can have a dramatic negative impact on flow numbers which should also be taken into consideration. I can elaborate further but pound for pound the AFR's deliver and do so in a big way. Our 315 is a prime example outflowing many of our competitors larger race heads as it approaches 390 CFM....an insane figure for such a small head which allows it to be just as at home on a 540 inch street engine as it is on a 454.

Chamber Volume....lets talk about that briefly. An "as cast" head is just that....an as cast head, and due to that fact will have a larger variance in chamber volume due to core shift and other factors that effect a raw casting. A few cc's larger or smaller when you are dealing with almost 120 cc's is almost meaningless. If your needing something more exact, step up to a CNC Chamber which is the biggest bang for the buck going. Spend less than a third of the cost to upgrade into a full CNC piece and see more than 50% of the power gains....pretty much a no brainer. Not only do the low and midlift numbers come alive, you also have the benefit of consistant chamber volumes from one to the next. Speaking of which, we just implemented a new chamber program into the entire BBC line and not only is it more "aesthetically pleasing" the better transitions into the valvejob now provide some added flow as well. I recently flow tested a 325 with CNC Chambers (keep in mind this is a smallish "as cast" port) that went the following which is significantly more than we advertise, alot of which I attribute to the "tweaked" chamber design....Here are the results:

Lift.....200.....300.....400.....500.....600.....650.....700

Int.....155.....231.....301.....348.....383.....392.....388
Exh....139.....184.....230.....265.....288.....291.....293

Also, AFR CNC ports all the bowls of our "as cast" cylinder heads so if you opt for the chamber you are now maximizing the two most critical areas which effect flow.....the entrance of the chamber into the port and the port into the valvejob (bowl). Thats why it flows and performs so well....once again offering you guys, the end user, big value and performance for your money. For the guys that have the extra dough and don't want to leave anything under the table, the full CNC stuff is just as impressive.

I beg all of you to try and look at our actual product before making a cylinder head choice. The workmanship, CNC quality, casting integrity, and build quality is second to none. Do we occasionally have problems? Of course we do as does ANY company that mass produces a product such as this....the key is we are a stand up company and will stand behind any problem you may encounter that is a legitamate warranty issue. We have been at this for more than 35 years and were literally the first company to start CNC porting cylinder heads more than 20 years ago (although that was very crude from today's standards).

We are also about to launch an all new 23' SBC line called our Eliminator heads. Trust me when I tell you that these new heads will rival the Gen III (LS1) stuff in regards to power output and simply set the bar a complete wrung higher than anything you have seen before in a "bolt-on" 23' cylinder head. They will outpower our own current crop of heads by a good margin which many independent tests have shown to be the best in their respective class. I will discuss more details as we get a little closer but the first heads available will be our 180 and 195 street heads, with the 210 to follow (then the larger race stuff a few months down the road).

If any of you would like to call me directly feel free to do so....I can be reached during business hours PST at (818)890-0616 Ext 109

I will do my best to be available to you guys here as much as possible, but if you need anything right away, either use the phone or drop an email to me using "tony@airflowresearch.com"

Regards,
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design Mgr.