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72 Chevelle with frame damage - what are my options?

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#41 ·
countryroad82 said:
I will admit though, don't dig into the car! You don't want to know what you will find!
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That's my thought exactly. The white paint with the New white top???
With that much frame and floor rust, the Quarters might be filled with mud and the rear window area is probably Swiss cheese.
 
#43 ·
Buzzbomb said:
The guy said in the ad and gave the original poster something that said "rust free". To me, that is being a liar. According to Andy, he had a Camaro up as of yesterday, now it is gone when this post pops up. Funny coincidence..

PO= Previous Owner. Andy said he was selling the Camaro; see his quote above.

If someone knows how to sell a Chevelle on Ebay, they know how to do Google searches. I can virtually guarantee the PO (previous owner, remember? :D ) knows about this board. Doesn't mean he posts here, but you don't have to post or log in to read. It was more than likely Andy's emails and calls that caused him to pull the auction for the Camaro, but who knows.

His last post states what he's going to do with the car, pretty much. Like I said, pretty sorry situation all the way around.
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Roland

I guess I was typing my reponse when you post this. Im telling you this is becoming very confusing on the take.

I agree if he advertised "rust free" and there was rust. Then that might be wrong. Again, if you saw my response that solid car and rust free can mean alot of things. Andy, seems like he does not know those things.

As far as the Camaro. I dont know. If you read my response. Maybe he sold it. If he sells alot on Ebay and has a 100% approval. I dont know why you would make that conclusion. I think your thinking the worst in that this guy Andy has already called a scum bum or something. He may not be. Has there been proof of when that ad disappeared? If the time was recorded when the Camaro disappeared as being a few minutes after this thread appeared. I guess you might be right, dont know. Good lord.

Why do you say the previous owner knows about team chevelle? You have evidence of that. Its logical what your saying, but you may be wrong. Maybe in talking with Andy, we can know more and we can help him.

I agree it not good, but there may not be fault anywhere.

We need to know more from Andy.
 
#44 ·
Its a little work but finding a donor frame and doing a switch isn't a bad idea, I mean who's gonna know Team Chevelle:D. I can't imagine what the floor boards look like judging from the looks of the rocker. For the price you paid I would fix it, I've seen donor frames for around $200. You and a couple buddy's could do it in 2 or 3 weekends.
 
#45 ·
Andy

Since your new here.

How much did you know about chevelles or old cars in general when you went to purchase this car?

Did you sign any papers from the seller other than a bill of sale?

What was talked about and was that in writing?

Answer these questions.

You may have a case for a lawyer.
 
#46 ·
Roland

How was you able to look that person up on Ebay?

Just type in the zip code?

I dont see how can you search for a buyer on Ebay.

You assume to much I think.

I dont know anything about Ebay.
 
#47 ·
its not hard finding a buyer on ebay! My question is if you saw those pictures before buying it then I don't know what to say. Its for sure a back east car either that or it was fished out of the water after sitting there for years. Your in it this deep I would brush up on my mechanical skills and jump in, you can't hurt it
 
#48 ·
rj67bu said:
its not hard finding a buyer on ebay! My question is if you saw those pictures before buying it then I don't know what to say. Its for sure a back east car either that or it was fished out of the water after sitting there for years. Your in it this deep I would brush up on my mechanical skills and jump in, you can't hurt it
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Maybe I dont know how to use Ebay. I tried to do that but it said something about having a ID. I just quit. Thought I would ask.

Those pictures dont make the car look that bad, but once he was there. That is another story.

That is typical for up north car where salt is used. Just a few years old car can look that bad.

Before he jumps in. I think he needs to clear up whether he wants to pursue legal advice or getting rid of the car.
 
#49 ·
I was going to say back east or some where that salt is used. I would ask if the guy would take it back or give me a good portion of the funds back for repair. But also if he looked at it before he loaded it on a trailer why not back out then, unless he paid for it to be transported and didn't see it until it came off the trailer. If someone where to buy it local or where able to see it before handing over the cash I'm sure the deal would be off.
 
#50 ·
Did you go through the entire thread.

He may have a case for a lawyer since the seller has already blew him off.

May not be worth the hassle though.
 
#51 ·
#52 ·
Look.. I'm not assuming anything. The guy said in his ad that this car was rust free. He evidently gave a written statement to Andy that it was rust free. Ray Charles, rest his soul, could see it's not rust free. Therefore, he was lying through his teeth to make a quick buck. Why else would you put fiberglass over rust holes in the frame if not to hide something? I know a lot about Ebay. It's like any other buying medium- caveat emptor. One thing that works against Andy is that he was a "local" buyer. He could have inspected it during the auction, I guess.

I saw the Camaro auction you posted and it indeed ran it's course. That doesn't change the fact that the seller is a liar. I wonder how rust free it is.

To be honest, I think the suggestion of having a "fix" done by gusseting the frame is a good one. The only problem is, does Andy want to go through the expense and hassle for this car. As others have stated, what ELSE was hidden? If he wants to sell the car at some point, what does HE tell the new buyer about HIS fixes for the rusty frame? Think the next guy that wants to buy the car will look past it? If it was Grandpa's old Chevy and he wants to hang on to it forever, it would be a totally different ball game.

My deal with this thread is the fact that it really sucks that someone will go to that length to hide crappy work and damage just to sell it off to someone. Then he comes on here after going to a garage and gets bad news, shows pictures, and gets told he bought a parts car for 10K. I'd be fit to be tied if it was me. I feel bad for Andy..

You know what I think that black box is on the firewall? I think the PO (previous owner :p ) was able to get a late model cruise control working in that car, and that's why he swapped the steering column. That's my WAG (wild ass guess :D). Maybe Andy can tell us if it works before he decides what to do with the car, if he can even drive it since he said it's not inspected, which I assume means it's not licensed.
 
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#53 ·
went back and read more of the thread maybe Andy's in the closet with the whiskey right now. This sucks and is a part of the reason we have so many regulations in this country. Someone is always trying to pull a fast one. Good luck Andy hope some thing good comes out of this for you.
 
#54 ·
Holy cow 10k for that my 71 cost me $150 but that was 25 years ago. On the flip side a had a 80 z28 mostly rust free and spent 18k restoring it to brand new condition for it only to be with 5-7k. Hurts but it happens if not on the front end then on the back end.
 
#55 ·
There is an A body frame in the local craigslist. A couple cans of pb blaster and a lot of work and you could have a frame back under it in time for spring cruising. Of course, there is the "well, since i have it apart" rabbit hole you could fall down.
 
#56 ·
Roland

I dont think anyone is doubting what your saying. You make some very logical statements and ideas. Worth the time to take a look. Both you and I dont know what Andy had to go through with Robert Christie. We dont know much at this point about the transaction. Maybe Andy will tell us more.

A repair job to the frame could make the frame stronger than it was from the factory.

No one should be worried about a frame that has been repaired properly. Many times that can be done and there be no visuals to a repair. Depending on the talent of the welder.
 
Discussion starter · #57 ·
Aaron said:
Maybe I dont know how to use Ebay. I tried to do that but it said something about having a ID. I just quit. Thought I would ask.

Before he jumps in. I think he needs to clear up whether he wants to pursue legal advice or getting rid of the car.
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eBay does require an account in order to access certain features. Once you're logged in you can look at a person past auctions which is how I was able to find the one for the Camaro. It ended on August 12th for $9,288.00. That seems pretty low to me given all the work he's done to it in the past 2 months.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28-Tribute-/181824807185?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a559a6111&item=181824807185&nma=true&si=Nth%252BSXwnQIzkBsW5M3zkmhO1Zog%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


The interesting thing about the Camaro auction is that when I picked up the Chevelle it was in the garage next door stripped down to the metal. The drivetrain was out and the interior was pretty beat up as well. He also had a Buick Riviera that was in need of paint and interior work. He claimed he was having money problems and needed to sell off some of his toys. The Camaro has now been painted, has a new engine from Precision Motor Works in NJ, as well as a new transmission, interior, wheels and tires. And what's sitting in the background in that photo you ask? Why it's a Buick Riviera with a brand new red paint job. And it seems he also had that on eBay but nobody bid on it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Buick-Riviera-/181821564530?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a5568e672&item=181821564530&nma=true&si=Nth%252BSXwnQIzkBsW5M3zkmhO1Zog%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


rj67bu said:
But also if he looked at it before he loaded it on a trailer why not back out then, unless he paid for it to be transported and didn't see it until it came off the trailer.
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Trailer? Ha. I don’t need no stinkin’ trailer. Actually, it seems I did and driving that thing 2 hours home on the PA Turnpike was probably a pretty dumb thing to do. But hey, I can laugh about it now because I’m not dead. Another thing I wish I had saved was the text message he sent me saying the car was totally roadworthy and I could “drive it to California”. I may be able to retrieve that from AT&T, that stuff stays on their servers for quite a while. I did look at the car and peer underneath it the best I could but I couldn't see very much and there was no lift available.


Aaron said:
How much did you know about chevelles or old cars in general when you went to purchase this car?

Did you sign any papers from the seller other than a bill of sale?

What was talked about and was that in writing?

You may have a case for a lawyer.
Click to expand...

I’ve only owned two old cars before, the rest of my cars have all been newer. I’ve owned and modified an ’87 IROC, Infiniti G35, Infiniti FX35, Subaru WRX, several trucks and a C5 Corvette (which I still own). As for old cars, other than the '66 Chevelle Malibu that was my first car in high school the only other old car I’ve owned is a ’67 Camaro. I bought that car in true rust free condition, all it needed was a little engine and suspension work and new wheels and tires. I kept it for 2 years and sold it for a profit.

Other than a bill of sale and the title I don't have any other paperwork on the car.

I’m not going to pursue legal action because I don’t have a very strong case. The bottom line is I got carried away and did something really stupid without doing my homework. Everyone on this forum has been kind enough to give me loads of great advice and info and I really appreciate it. Now it’s just a matter of mulling things over and deciding what to do. Maybe I’ll have the frame welded up and make it into a weekend rat rod or maybe I’ll sell it for parts and look for something else that’s not made of swiss cheese. Either way I really appreciate the time everyone has taken to read this thread.

I know cars are not investments (unless you count investing in your happiness) so this won't dissuade me from the hobby. I'll just be more careful in the future.
 
#58 ·
You bought the car from a dealer in the same state you live in. If so go to the DMV and see if the Dealer and Repairer Division can help you. Bring any paper work with you about your car and the car also if possible or at least pictures. Also bring any other ads with you to show he is selling more than just one car. I bought a Corvette long ago that had leaking front brakes and the frame was thinned in areas. The DMV looked at the car and said the frame wasn't that bad but on the brakes they did go after him. I had already purchased all new parts calipers, pads, etc. to do the job myself seeing the dealer was supposed to check the brakes before I got it. The DMV said I shouldn't have done that and had given the dealer a chance to fix it first. I came to an agreement that if the dealer paid for half the parts I would accept it. They called the dealer right while i was there and I had a check in the mail for half the price of the parts the next day.
 
#59 ·
Andy

Im so sorry this kind of stress has happend for you. I dont know anything about ebay. It appeared to be that way when I started looking over there yesterday after Roland said something about Robert Christie. When I see things like that being complicated once I start looking into that. I say forget it.

Looks like your saying the Camaro and Riveria had extensive work done to be sold at a cheap price. You say he used the words toys. I guess he was using these as a personal collection versus them as a way to make money. I guess some people do that. Mix in there personal collection into their business of selling or making cars for profit to pay their bills and to live off on. I would never do that. I would keep that seperate. Going back to what your saying. He kind of flipped that car fast and sometimes that does wave flags. Car business like this has all kinds of stories about that. Just walk through the industrial park somewhere and take a look. People dont always know the truth about appearance though. People who deal in junk cars or fixer uppers could be pretty honest people or pretty corrupt. Sometimes wires get crossed and those things should never happen, but sometimes it does. Think about all the car movies and stuff from the 70's. All kinds of cans of worms can be opened when selling stuff from individual to individual.

You drove the car home to your home after purchasing it? How did you do that without a tag and insurance? Temporary tag and did you call and put it on your current insurance?

Still though. The question to easy your mind about the frame is was the frame that way the last time it passed inspection. I would think it would be maybe not. The text message of "drive it to California" would mean nothing in a legal battle I would think if it was that way the last time the car passed inspection.

As far as a bill of sale and the title and nothing else, I'm not sure. Im not a lawyer. You would have to consult with them. If you signed papers with verbiage such as "as is" or something similar then that would clear the seller. Since you did not, any course of legal or monetary values would have to come from a lawyer who does that kind of work. There are plenty who do.

Since you have ruled out on a lawyer, that might be a good thing. You could invest time and money in seeing one and trying to get something going only to lose on that.

As far as not doing your homework. Im not sure how you are looking at that. You have owned quite a number of cars. Did you want a 72 with a 307? It appears you think the car has more rust than you originally thought. Which maybe makes you feel you did not do your homework. Point taken on that.

Good luck to you on the 72.

My plan of action would be to get car off the frame and clean up the frame and repair it and rebuild the rearend or install a stronger rear and overhaul the transmission and suspension while the body was off. I would get rid of the 307 and find a low mileage 350 from a junk yard and spruce that up to around 300 to 350 horsepower and install it. From there I would I would put the body back on and drive it as a beater. If you decide to do metal work and a nice interior later on it would be all down hill from there.

Good luck to you.
 
#60 ·
HKalin said:
You bought the car from a dealer in the same state you live in. If so go to the DMV and see if the Dealer and Repairer Division can help you. Bring any paper work with you about your car and the car also if possible or at least pictures. Also bring any other ads with you to show he is selling more than just one car. I bought a Corvette long ago that had leaking front brakes and the frame was thinned in areas. The DMV looked at the car and said the frame wasn't that bad but on the brakes they did go after him. I had already purchased all new parts calipers, pads, etc. to do the job myself seeing the dealer was supposed to check the brakes before I got it. The DMV said I shouldn't have done that and had given the dealer a chance to fix it first. I came to an agreement that if the dealer paid for half the parts I would accept it. They called the dealer right while i was there and I had a check in the mail for half the price of the parts the next day.
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Hank

You talking about a dealer? What are you calling a dealer?

This appears to be a individual selling on ebay. He could be a dealer.

Andy would have to answer those questions.
 
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