Pinewood Time Again!!

Anyone else out there working with their boy on a Pinewood Racer this weekend??

(We're taking a break from wheel & axle prep right now - read that Dad needs a beer to settle down from the 10 year old using the drill press! )

I know people at work who need things done for their kids car. Just bugs me when a parent builds a car for the kid.

We just got ours tonight, probably wont start on them till after the holidays..

I am with you Steve, there is a BIG difference between someone taking the box from the Scouts hand and walking out to the garage telling the kid to leave him alone. I HAVE seen this, the kid that has won 1st place in the Pack the last three years can't tell you how he did ANYTHING on the car if asked. That is just plain sad.

When my boy was a Tiger, he was suppose to do three steps out of the six required to build it, he did five! He designed it, I cut it, he completely sanded it WITH direction and instruction. He painted it, WITH direction and instruction, and so on. I tuned up the wheels and installed them. He helped me tune the chassis. He came in 9th out of 45 boys and was thrilled.

Last year as a Wolf, he did the same but this time helped me tune the axles and wheels as well, he came in third.

The MOST important part is we got out in my garage with our den and the boys learned about friction and drag. We tested wheels out of the box and timed how long they would spin. We tuned one and timed how long it would spin. We talked about how important it was to drag having the wheels all facing in the same direction. We talked about how this is a RACE CAR and not a toy. How after it was built and before the race it couldn't be played with because the wheel alignment could be messed up.

These boys REALLY learned something, bedamned if the dads went home and built the cars. At least they learned something. But at least I know five out of the six in my den DID build the cars with dad, I stressed that they should.

All six of these boys had very competitive cars, you can really see the difference a little basic wheel tuning and alignment can do.

By the way, I go to the district work shop and teach there about tuning wheels and alignment so all the boys have a chance to have a fast car.

Go Scouting!!

Brian

By the way, this year we added to our rules "No rounding or narrowing of wheels" and we will be STRICT on weigh in night. That was one of the reasons the one kid won the last three years. His was the only car there with rounded wheels, not this year.

Brian

My son's Den Leader has won for the past few years and it's very discouraging for the boys that try very hard and don't get very far. What are some of the ways you've seen the cars modified over the years? My husband was in Scouts many years back and times have really changed. My son designed his last year and did 99% of the work except for cutting it out. I'd like to see it go back to the boys instead of the parents.

I have seen cars that were obviously done by an adult. The funny thing is that, at least from what I have seen, those cars don't seem to do as well as the kid built ones. My boys are all older now but they did pretty well in the derbys with the cars that they built.

These are some tips posted last year here on Team Chevelle. I don't go nearly as far as discribed here. For instance, I (or this year, my Scout) will sand and polish the axles,but it is done in a vice. No drill is needed, not by a long shot. Just put it in the vice on the pointy end and polish it.

Brian

Pinewood Car Tips & Tricks


This text may be a little extreme, but the difference between our 2003's first and second place was .002 seconds. These “tips and tricks” have been gleaned from 4 years of racing. I can’t guarantee your success, but all of the following tips have been race proven to work. All of these “modifications” are completely legal if done as described.

A few points:
This is a son – parent project. The entire purpose of the Pinewood is to teach your boy about the properties of physics, friction, aerodynamics, safe and proper tool usage, and most importantly good sportsmanship! There are winners and losers in the Pinewood. Each boy will receive a ribbon for participation, some will receive a medal, some a certificate, but only 4 will receive a trophy.
Let your son do as much work on his car as possible. You make the decision if your Cub can handle a sharp knife or saw after teaching him the safe usage of one. I would recommend that the parent (s) with the younger boys handle the wheel/axle preparation, and final assembly of the wheels to the cars, as this requires some finesse and coordination. Let your son cut/carve/saw the body block, do the sanding, painting/decorations, and help with the other steps regardless of age.
The REAL "most important" step - spend some quality time with your boy! Work safely, teach him how to use tools, explain to the best of his understanding why you're doing all this work. John and I have already won our first place trophy. Time to share our speed tips - another Scouting quality! This is one big teaching and learning experience. Having said that, lets get to building!

Body Styles:
Aerodynamics isn't really a factor in a 40 foot distance. Unless you're flying banners and flags on your car or you’ve built a model of a fully rigged “Clipper Ship”, the shape (in my experience) hasn't mattered. The sky is the limit on body design – as long as it’s within the dimensions on the rules sheet! There are even plastic “body kits” available at the Scout Store or Hobby Shops. These are completely legal, as long as the original block of wood is in there somewhere, and the car meets the dimensions on the rules sheet.

**Important - You must use the Official BSA Pinewood kit we provided to you or one from the Scout Store! There are several pre-cut “PineCAR” (note spelling) kits out there, and they will be disqualified.**

I’ve seen the following styles the last few years:
Sponge Bob Square Pants, A1 Steak Sauce bottle, A “Gameboy” game, Firetruck, Snakes, Block of Swiss cheese (complete with holes and a rubber mouse) – anything goes!
Some people will swear that a “wedge” is best, or a thin/flat shape, etc. Mostly this would be true in Packs that don’t have as strict of rules enforcement that Pack 225 has, or run an “unlimited” type of event. One important thing to remember, make provisions in your design to add (and remove) weight to your car!
Tools Required:
 Small hand saw, or coping saw
 Sharp whittling knife or “X-Acto” type carving set
 (optional but great and fast) A “Dremel” type motor tool, with an assortment of cutters and sanding drums.
Tips:
 Check the alignment of the axle slots. They should be perfectly square (perpendicular) to the body block. Adjust if needed, but don’t change the wheelbase.
 Incorporate into your design a way to leave a little “nub” of the original body block about ¼” each side of the 4 axle locations. The idea here is that the hub of your wheel will rub against this small area. You don’t want the entire rim of the wheel to rub on the body.

Weight:
When assembled, your car will weigh in at about 3.7 to 4 ounces. Pinewood rules allow a car to be no more than 5.0 ounces. You want your car to be 5.0 ounces! These cars run by gravity, and having maximum weight will equate to speed.
There are many methods to add weight, here are a few suggestions:
 Pre-made zinc/lead accessories – drivers, engines, exhaust pipes, slabs w/ break-off tabs.
 A cavity carved in the body, packed with fishing sinkers or coins, sealed with epoxy or wood filler.
 Holes drilled in the car, and lead slugs or sinkers pressed in
 A cavity carved in the car, and molten lead poured in. **Adults ONLY**
 Some teams have put blinking LED’s on the car, and used the batteries as weight. (This is OK, as long as the weight is secure.)

There are as many arguments as to where to place the weight as there are on what to use. Our race history has shown that if the weight is in the bottom/underside of the car, about 1-1/4” in front of the rear wheels, will provide good results. Make sure you maintain the 3/8” ground clearance if you choose this location!
Make sure there is a way to remove weight from your car. This is usually done by drilling a few holes in the underside of the car into the “weight pack”.
What is difficult is you have to work backwards here. Once your car is nearly finished, but not assembled or painted, you’ll have to weigh it. Weigh it with all four wheels, axles and the body. Add weight until the scales read 5.0 ounces. Now somehow install the weight you had to add into the body design. Re-weigh your car and adjust as needed.
The Post Office is usually very cooperative (if they’re not swamped when you visit). Also the official Pack scale will be made available to the Den Leaders if they are hosting a “build-it” session at a Den meeting. Check with the Race Chairman.

Painting and Finishing:
A beautiful paint job is possible on a block of wood! Over the years I’ve seen paint work that rivals the job on a luxury car! I prefer to use spray paint. Yes, it stinks and can make a mess, but the results are worth it! Please follow all the safety directions on the can!

Some tips:
 Get the block as smooth as possible. Finish the sanding with 400 grit paper or finer.
 A spray painted job will look much better than a brush painted job.
 Use one brand and series/line of paint and stick with it. Paint companies make several lines of paint, and not all are compatible with each other. (John and I had finished our paint job one year. He wanted a really shiny finish, so we shot a coat of gloss clear on the car. It was a different brand of paint. It attacked the previous paint, and it all curled and lifted off. We had to sand it all off and start over!)
 Most enamels available at Home Depot, or a hobby shop are just fine. The hobby shop will have a better selection of custom or metalflake colors, but they are $5 for a tiny can.
 After final sanding the block with 400 grit or finer, use a “tack rag” (available at Home Depot) to clean all the dust/residue off the body.
 Shoot a few light coats of gloss clear (see #1) on the raw wood block before painting your color coats. This will help seal the wood and make the topcoats smoother.
 A few coats of gloss clear after your color coats will give a great high-gloss finish.
 Let your paint job dry at least 2 days (!!) before handling the car. After all this work you don’t need your thumbprint stuck in the paint! (voice of experience here)

Axle Preparation:
Winning or losing is largely dependent on wheel and axle preparation.
You should not even attempt to race with the axles/nails in the out of the box condition. Please look carefully at an axle. The axles are manufactured by stamping. The two halves of the stamping die leave tiny ridges or burrs under the head and on the point.

to be continued...

Tools Required:
 Electric or Cordless drill, or drill press. (This is an excellent opportunity to get yourself a cordless drill (if you don’t already have one). It is the Holiday Season, drop a hint or two!)
 A very fine “jewelers” file, or an ignition points file. (This should be a flat file, and the best choice would be one that does not have teeth on the sides/edges).
 Polishing compound or “jewelers rouge”. (Dremel makes this stuff, available at Home Depot.)
 One sheet (each) of 600 grit, and 1000 (or finer) grit “wet/dry” sandpaper or emery cloth.
 Rag

a) *Important* - Check the pointy end of the axle. During manufacture some burrs can be made near the flats of the point. File these off! (more later).
b) Chuck the axle (nail) in a drill motor or drill press (not a Dremel Tool - too fast) with about 1/2" inch protruding. Spin it pretty fast. Before doing anything see if it is spinning true. If it's wobbling at all, try re-clamping it in the drill.
c) When it’s spinning true, use your jeweler's file and knock the burrs off the inside (wheel side) of the head. Be Gentle! The idea here is to just remove the burr, not reshape the nail head. Do the same on the shaft. Don't remove any more material than necessary to clean off the burrs.
d) Cut some 4"x 3/8" strips of sandpaper. Get it wet and spin sand/polish the area you just filed with the 600, then the 1000 . Don't go nuts, just clean up the file marks.
e) Get an old T-shirt or rag, and rub/grind some of the jeweler's rouge into a spot. Burnish this into the spinning axle. Warning - it'll get HOT! After a few minutes, switch to a clean spot on the rag and remove all traces of the compound.
f) Stop the drill, and inspect the axle. It should look like a mirror! You shouldn't feel any scratches with a fingernail on the "bearing" area you just created.

Wheel Preparation:
Hobby shops won't have the Official BSA Pinewood kit, but good ones will have the most important accessory, a wheel mandrel. The Scout Store also carries a “Hi-Performance” kit that includes a mandrel. A wheel mandrel is a small piece of metal that allows you to mount a wheel into a drill motor or drill press, spin it, and dress or “true up” the plastic wheels.

Tools Required:
 Electric or Cordless drill, or drill press.
 A countersinking bit, or a ¼” drill bit.
 A utility knife blade.
 Some sandpaper or emery cloth (leftover from the axle work).
 Toothpaste
 Rag

a) Inspect the outside "hub" hole of the wheel. 99 times out of 100 there will be a small burr protruding into the hole.
b) Using a countersinking bit, or a 1/4" drill bit by hand very gently twirl the bit against the hole and remove the burr. You should have a very slight chamfer at the edge of the hole.
c) With some 600 grit, hand sand the little "lug" off the tread surface from the molding process. Just take the lug off, don't reshape the wheel!
c) Chuck the wheel (hub/inside of wheel to the body of the mandrel) into the mandrel, and chuck it into the drill. Be careful! Don't go gorilla on the tightening! The mandrel is brass, the threads are junk, and the wheel is soft.
d) Using the slowest speed available on the drill, spin the wheel. It should spin true.
e) At slow speed, take the blade from a utility knife, and on the away / back side of rotation, gently scrape the tread surface. Do this squarely! The idea is to shave off a slight bit of tread surface and make the hub and tread truly concentric. This will also remove the remainder of the molding lug.
f) Touch the tread surface with some wet 1000 grit and remove the scraping marks. Do not put a "crown" or "cup" into the tread surface. This is illegal.
g) Get some toothpaste (yes, toothpaste) and a clean rag. Get an area of the rag wet, and squeeze a pea-sized bit of toothpaste into the spot and rub it in.
h) With the wheel spinning, use your thumb and forefinger to rub the toothpaste against the tread surface. Don't squeeze too hard or slow the drill! In a minute or two you will have a very highly polished wheel!
i) Clean off any residue.
j) Remove the wheel from the mandrel, and lightly "round over" the hub with some 1000 grit. There is usually a sharp edge or burr on edge of the hub.


Wheel and Axle Assembly:
I've never had good results with the white Teflon stuff from the “Hi-Performance” kit - all of our winners have used graphite. It’s available at any hardware store in a little puff tube for about $1.
Tools required:
 Graphite
 Pipe Cleaner
 Watch/clock with a second hand, or stopwatch.

**Warning – This is messy, and graphite dust is near impossible to remove from carpet, upholstery, or the finish on a table. Put down a dropcloth or newspapers!

a) Puff some graphite onto a section of a pipe cleaner.
b) Push the pipe cleaner back and forth through the wheel about a zillion times. Re-puff graphite as needed. The idea is to burnish the graphite into the plastic.
If you didn't before, file off any burrs by the nail points! Take an axle and put a wheel on (if you didn't file off the burr you just cut a groove into the wheel hub and ruined step "b" and possibly the wheel).
c) Assemble a wheel and axle. Puff more graphite into the hub and under the nail head. Give it a spin with your finger.
d), e), f), g), h), i), Repeat step "c"
j) By now your fingers should be shiny black, and the wheel should spin at least 20 - 25 seconds! Get organized and a stopwatch. Try different combination of wheels and axles. Find the best sets (spinning and timing them). Keep these matched sets together!

Alignment:
After doing your body and paint work, you are ready to assemble your wheels to the car body.
Just like your real car, the wheels on your Pinewood need to be aligned. The Pinewood track has a strip of wood down the center of each lane. The car straddles this strip. If your wheels aren’t aligned, your car will rub against this strip and slow down. This is an important step, and takes time.

Tools Required:
 A smooth and flat area of floor, about 10’ long.
 Masking tape
 Epoxy or “Crazy Glue”

a) Gently press the wheel/axle assemblies into the slots on the car body. Leave about 1/32” of “play” between the wheel hub and car body. Do not glue yet!
b) Lay a strip of masking tape on your floor surface. You are creating a “race lane”.
c) Gently set your car over the tape strip. Give it a gentle push. Your car should roll for at least 5 - 6 feet without drifting off of the tape strip.
d) If necessary, a gentle bend or “tweak” on the wheel (s) in the opposite direction of drift, and re-test.
e) When satisfied with your alignment, lock the axles in place with some epoxy or “Crazy Glue”.
f) At this time, you should not allow your son to play with his car, until after Race Day. A dropped or banged into car will ruin all of the above work! Explain this to your boy.

I hope this helps!
Yours in Scouting,
Cubmaster John

My word! Those are some tips! What some people will go through for a win! We're out to just have fun and a cool looking car!

Thanks Brian for re-posting my tips & tricks :thumbsup: I was going to do this if response warranted....

Our first year the ONLY rule enforced was the 5oz. weight limit. My son & I built a car strictly adhering to the included specifications sheet, and got smoked by the older kids. It was no fun sitting there for the remainder of the event after being knocked out in the first rounds.
The next year I volunteered to be the Pinewood Chairman, and instituted the following rules. You woulda thought the Nazi Party was being re-elected to power from all the moans & groans!
What a strict & enforced set of rules DID DO was turn a "whitewash" event into a highly competitive fun time, where nearly everyone has an equal chance to trophy.

If it's not too late, bring up the following rules to your Pack Committee. I'll be happy to email (Word .doc) you a copy as well!


PINEWOOD DERBY
RACER SPECIFICATIONS

All cars must pass Tech Inspection to qualify for the race. The inspection points are as follows:

Note: No rules are perfect or will satisfy everyone. These rules are being published in order to give all Dens and Participants an "up-front" opportunity to know what standards will be applied at the Race. These are the Official rules that have been distributed to each unit at the monthly meeting. It is the Den’s responsibility to make sure every racer understands these rules. Please make sure that all participants fully understand these rules and regulations. They will be enforced to make this as fair for everyone as possible. (These rules were inspired by the published regulations from the Minnetonka and Three Rivers Districts, from Internet sites, and have run effectively for 4 years now).

General Rules / Specifications:

A. All racers are expected to be IN UNIFORM.

B. Only the Official BSA #17006 kit is allowed.

C. Cars are expected to be constructed to withstand the rigors of racing (handling by officials, loading at the starting gate, bumping the end stop, etc). After any repairs, the car must again meet all specifications (weight may have to be removed if glue or tape are added) before continuing. If the same car does not hold up after repairs it will be deemed unfit to race (black flagged) and will be disqualified. Re-lubricating will not be allowed.

D. ALL LUBRICATING MUST BE DONE PRIOR TO THE RACE. NO LUBRICATION CONTAINERS WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING. The institution providing our location, and our NEW TRACK does NOT want graphite smudges, etc., all over the place. Therefore a "DIRT TEST" will be done. All cars will be placed on a white and or black surface and each end individually lifted one inch and tapped to remove excess lubrication. If excess lubrication is present, the owner of the car will be asked to take the car outside and remove the excess. The car will be allowed to retest for excess lubrication.

Car Specifications:
1 - Propulsion: Gravity. No "Stored Energy" devices allowed.
2 - Body:
A. The car must have been built during the current Scouting year / season.
B. The body block from the Official BSA kit #17006 must be used.
C. The body may be shaped, hollowed out, plastic “accessories” / styling kits added, or built up from the original block of wood, as long as it meets all other specifications.

3 - Body Accessories:
A. Any accessories added (steering wheels, driver figures, exhaust pipes, etc., must be firmly attached, and not exceed other dimensional specifications.
B. Any wheel fairings, flares, or bodywork must be within Rule #5 and #6.
C. Any Spoilers, Wings, or Accessories must conform to Rules #4 and #5.

4 - Length:
Maximum overall vehicle length is 7". This includes all spoilers, accessories, etc.

5 - Width:
Maximum vehicle width is 2-3/4". This is measured from Axle head to Axle Head. Any accessories must be inside this dimension.

6 - Height:
Maximum vehicle height (including accessories) is 4".

7 - Ground Clearance:
Minimum vehicle ground clearance is 3/8". The vehicle free rolling must pass over a 3/8" object without scraping.

8 - Weight:
All cars will be weighed on race day at “Tech Inspection”.
This is the OFFICIAL scale and measurement regardless of prior “weigh ins”.

1. Maximum weight is 5 (five) Ounces (approx.142 Grams).
2. All weight must be securely attached to vehicle.
3. No "loose" weight (Lead shot, mercury, etc.).
A drill will be provided for the crew chief to lighten an overweight car.

9 - Wheelbase:
There is no "designated" front or rear axle slot as provided.
1. "Truing" or “Squaring” of the axle slots is allowed, provided there is no change to the factory supplied approximate 4-7/16” wheelbase.
2. Axle location may NOT be moved – 7/8” and 1-11/16” from ends of the body block (approx.).
3. Minimum inside to inside "wheel track" is 1 3/4".
Wheelbase will be checked against a raw body block master or BSA gauge.

10 - Axles:
Only axles provided in the Official BSA kit #17006 are allowed. They must be used “out of the box” except for minimal polishing or truing of the bearing surface, to remove manufacturing flaws or burrs.
1. No suspension or springs allowed.
2. Wheel bearings, bushings, washers are prohibited.
The plastic wheel rides on the steel axle - period. Racers with modified axles will be disqualified.

11 - Wheels:
Only wheels provided in the Official BSA kit #17006 are allowed. They must be used “out of the box” except for minimal sanding or truing of the tread surface, to remove manufacturing flaws, flashing, etc. Wheels will be checked with a straightedge and calipers.
NO MODIFICATIONS ARE ALLOWED; This means:
1. Reduction of diameter, except a few thousandths for above mentioned truing.
2. Reduction of tread thickness (wheel I.D.), except a few thousandths for above mentioned truing
3. Reduction of tread width.
4. Crowning, Cupping, Grooving, Knife Edging, or any other reshaping of the tread surface.
5. Hub Caps or Hub Cap "Stickers".
6. Drilling of “lightening” holes.
7. Alteration of bearing area thickness, width, or diameter.
8. Machining of “lubrication cups” in bearing area.
Racers with modified wheels will be disqualified.

12 - OTHER REASONS FOR DISQUALIFICATIONS:
1. Exceptions to any of the specifications listed here or on kit information sheet under "Racing Specifications" or "Rules”.
2. Un-Scout-like conduct of participants, such as combative behavior, is not permitted. (Body English, whistling, yelling, and groaning are permitted.) (Booing, Trash-talking, Hassling race officials are not permitted.)
3. Presence of non-official persons in the racing areas. Only the Official Race Committee will be permitted in the racing or track area.
(If you are “caught” in the paddock area, your racer will be sent back to Tech for a complete re-inspection procedure – if the racer fails Tech, you will be disqualified.)

http://members.aol.com/randywoo/pine/

heres a link that may help

circletrack said:

My word! Those are some tips! What some people will go through for a win! We're out to just have fun and a cool looking car!

Click to expand...

Like I said, TEACHING the Scout about friction, drag, and wheel alignment has a value. You can take the whole 12,000 charictor post and TEACH. Or you can take a bit here and there which is what I do and TEACH. I personally feel awful bad for the Scout whos car skids to a stop BEFORE reaching the end of the track. I had a Scout in my den who didn't come to our den meeting on building the car, he came in last EVERY race, he wasn't the happiest guy there.

It is like everything else, you find the balance. If you have a child in baseball, you TEACH them. You practice, you watch the pros and tell them about things you just saw. If you don't, they don't have an understanding of what is happening. The parent who lives and dies baseball and takes the fun out of it is wrong. But to TEACH them here and there is the way it should be. You certainly can't hand them a glove and expect them to play ball on game day. If you TEACH the child about friction, drag, and wheel alignment and they loose, at least they know why. It is BETTER for them to understand WHY that car wasn't as fast as the others, it takes away the personal blame. Look at the face of a boy whos car skids to a stop on the track, he takes it personal.

Brian

I run the derby for a pack of around 80 boys...

One of my little secrets is to have cars checked in and tech inspected on the weekend before the race. It is always crazy weighing cars and such. By doing this in advance it offloads that craziness from the race night and allows me to spend more personal time helping where needed. I also do not have to feel quite so bad when somebody shows up with craft store wheels/axles on their car and I disqualify it until they change to the official BSA versions. There are always a few that show up like this so I always pick up a few extra sets of wheels at the scout shop.

Another thing I like is my timer/software setup and how it schedules races. Basically all boys race against the clock with one race in each lane. So no worry about fast/slow lanes. Nobody feeling left out because their car got smoked. You can find the plans and software if you search out "inexpensive pinewood timer". Use an outdated laptop PC and away you go.

We also have a couple of play tracks where the boys can run them until their wheels fall off (cars or boys) after they have completed their official racing.

It seems that the fastest cars in my pack are first year 6 year old Tiger scouts and the older boys the slowest ;-)

I also advocate the idea of an Adult Ego Class where dads can build and run their own car.

For finish... I do not worry about sanding the block beyond the 200 grit level. I put two coats of clear water-based polyurethane on to seal the wood. Then I start with the gray automotive primer and wet sanding. After about 3 cycles of that, then I shoot the color from a rattle can. People cannot believe it is wood and think it is plastic.

I once helped a local home builder hold a PWD as a team building exercise. One of the cars had a remote control and made engine sounds when the button was pushed.

If you want to see some folks *really* into PWD: www.derbytalk.com

When a dad wants,
a block of wood squared on a mill
centerline etched
notched for wheels
axel points square
a basic blueprinted block of wood
2 holes cut in the back for steel shot
holes plugged for weight addition/removal
wheels and trued on a lathe
Now what work did the kid do when it is just a matter of a few things after that.
Maybe when my kid gets older I could just show him how to design the thing on CAD/CAM and have it done on a CNC. A fully blueprinted within .0005 tolerance and send it to NASA for aerodynamic testing.