Team Chevelle banner
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
I can't see how a lawyer could win this for you.

Unless you have something in writing that defines the quality of the finished paint job as well as a defined time to complete, you have nothing to fight him with.

In court it will be entirely your word against his. He'll go into court and say "I've been doing this long enough to know it can't be done in the amount of time he's claiming I said I could do it in."

In my opinion a lawyer would be a waste of money, if you could even get a decent lawyer to take the case. A good lawyer would probably say no, as he knows it would be a tough one to win. And no good lawyer wants to add a loss to his record.

Just be civil and let him sand and polish the car. Yeah, we all know you want the car back and done, but give him a chance, in the end you'll be much happier.

Jeff
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
I would like to see if I can work things out with this guy.

If you guys could see this paint job up close you would feel the same way, especially if it was your 7k and your Chevelle.

He didn't even put everything he removed back on the car, the chrome around wheel wells are missing, the chrome on the drip rails missing, the drivers door will not open, worked find before.
He didn't splatter paint the inside of the trunk, part of the deal.
He was supposed to repair the floor pans, he did do some of that, but left the front part where the seam runs across the floor with some rusted through holes.

I have an itemized list in his hand writing that totals up to 133.5 hours and list some of the things he did not complete!

With this list and receipt, am I still screwed legally?
Jeff
 
I agree that with nothing in writing you may not have a case, but there are lawyers that will give you a free 1/2 hour consultation, maybe one would have some advice. I agree with others, though, that you might get more out of it by being "nice" and trying to work it out with him. Unfortunately you don't have the options that you would with say a car dealer where you can get the radio/TV station sales managers where they advertise involved, that
worked for me on a Jeep service issue a while back. You definitely need to have good closeup photos of what you consider the problems to do anything so make sure to do that first thing, and good luck.
 
Take the car to every local show that you can. Have a sign listing who did the job and how much it cost. People will figure it out for themselves pretty quickly and you haven't slandered anyone. Advertising works. A lot of people in business don't realize that referrals are probably 80% of their business. The ones who don't figure that out end up struggling all their lives and don't know why.
 
Keith Tedford said:
Take the car to every local show that you can. Have a sign listing who did the job and how much it cost. People will figure it out for themselves pretty quickly and you haven't slandered anyone. Advertising works. A lot of people in business don't realize that referrals are probably 80% of their business. The ones who don't figure that out end up struggling all their lives and don't know why.

I second that
 
Do you think maybe the paint job was so costly because he decided to store it there for 4 and a hafl months? Paint places around here (PA) charge money to store cars at their lots for more than a certain period of time, i think its a few weeks. If that was the case, then maybe the 7k for the "show quality" paint job was actually an average job + storage money.
 
You said that is only 133 hours, doesnt look that bad, I would see if he could buff it for you. On my 71, I have got over 200 hours in it, and it's still not done, in fact, it's sitting in the shop right now with no doors or fenders on it, and the fenders are still bare metal waiting to be fixed. I got till the 19th to have it done before I move....guess I better hurry huh, lol.


But really man, talk it over with the guy, never know what may become of it, some of the worst texture can be rubbed out with the right touch.
 
The picture I see of the red car, it does not look too bad. But I know that things in pictures are not what they always seem to be. What are you claiming is wrong with the paint job? I would think you would be able to recover some money for the items that were lost, or possibly having the guy replace these items, as they aren't that expensive. Talk to the guy, and if that doesn't work, then the word of mouth advertising may be the way to go.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Dave Birdwell said:
The picture I see of the red car, it does not look too bad. But I know that things in pictures are not what they always seem to be. What are you claiming is wrong with the paint job? I would think you would be able to recover some money for the items that were lost, or possibly having the guy replace these items, as they aren't that expensive. Talk to the guy, and if that doesn't work, then the word of mouth advertising may be the way to go.
Your right about the car it does look good in the pictures, but there are so many flaws that it just makes me sick to look at it up close.

For one there is so much trash in the paint that its just sad!

There are some spots that you can tell that something was picked out of the paint.

The SS stripes on the hood are not a continous color, more of a cloudy look, while the SS stripes on the rear deck look good.

The front bumper was new, it is damaged now, cracked and chipped where there was an attempt to straighting it, it is twisted and does not fit the car very well now.

The drivers door will not open now, they worked great before, I was even impressed how a car of its age had tight smooth working doors.

The body work was not completed, small dent in the drivers door, that I never noticed before, there is also a dent over the rear of the passenger side drip rail.

I haven't even considered the lack of work he was going to do in the floor pans.

I could go on and on, but there is no use, it seems that I am the bad guy here, attacking the paint and body worker.

I did try and talk with the guy today, he is willing to do some wet sanding and buffing on the body, at his convenence in a couple of months.

screwed again :(
Jeff
 
Keith Tedford said:
Take the car to every local show that you can. Have a sign listing who did the job and how much it cost. People will figure it out for themselves pretty quickly and you haven't slandered anyone. Advertising works. A lot of people in business don't realize that referrals are probably 80% of their business. The ones who don't figure that out end up struggling all their lives and don't know why.
What a great idea. I third this idea. I would also tell the owner you plan to do this. I would hit every car show/cruise in I could.

I hate to say it but this is the very reason I don't like taking my car to shops. They lose parts, do half the job and expect you to pay everytime. I ended up going to the shop on a Saturday to finish the job myself. They even attempted to throw my emergency brake cable in the garbage (I just so happen to see it),
 
Take as many photos as you can to document the problems with the job, then take it to court. The shop should know darn well before delivering the car that the job wasn't satisfactory and incomplete. He can't charge for operations he didn't do---period. You can represent yourself in court if you have enough documentation to support your side. I wouldn't bring it back to this guy, considering the work is incomplete and poor quality it sounds like he's just a crook.

With these big jobs there are always hidden surprises and that need to be discussed before the job starts and as the job progresses, if he had problems with the job you should have been contacted the issues discussed. There's no excuse for billing operations that weren't performed.

Just for curiosity, did the shop strip the old paint off of the car? did they have the front clip off to properly do a color change?

Scan your bill and post it for us to review. Bob
 
Its ~$45 to file in small claims court and you'll fall under the limit of $5k. But I would ask for the maximum and document everything and fight him. If you lose it only cost you the $45 filing fee and I think you have a good chance of winning.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Here is the low down.
I'm not a professional in paint and body, at first I stopped by his shop and ask what the cost would be to do paint and body work on my Chevelle, I described what I wanted and he gave me a guess at what he thought, and ask me to bring the car in, which I did.
He looked the car over, it was not in bad shape from the start he quoted me around $5700.
I brought the car back home and stripped the interior out of the car, I found that the floor pan needed some work, when I brought the car back to him we looked it over again and he adjusted his cost to match the work I wanted done.
He is the one that told me 133.5 hours, I'm not the professional in paint and body, so I agreed to the 7k price.
What I ended up with is some un-finished work and a poor quality paint job!
I'm not trying to get something for nothing, I just wanted my (baby) Chevelle painted right.
As far as bringing it to ever car show around, with a sign about who did the paint, well there are not many car shows around here, especially since Katrina hit.
"Crusin-the-Coast" is a wash now, I don't think that will be happening any time soon either.
I'm going out and clean the car up right now and try to get some pictures of the problem areas.
I may go and have a consultation with a lawyer, if he thinks I'm screwed, I guess I'll just have to suck-it-up.

Jeff
 
Judging by what you have described as true flaws, then the person doing the work should be liable. Never mind the lawyer, not many of them would understand the principles of what is happening. You may not have a case with the parts, but with the shoddy work you should be able to recoup most of the money you paid him. If you know of a good professional painter/bodyman, that has ethics, either ask them to appear on your behalf as a professional witness, or just subpoena them. Find a friend that has a car with a true "show" finish, and do the same with them, so that a judge could compare and see what you were expecting. A car with no dents, no paint problems, no damage from installing parts, etc... Once you have established with the court that the business was at fault for fraud, which this really is since he didn't do all that he charged you for, THEN you can lower the boom on the missing parts. Be ready with an estimate of how much is will cost for someone to redo the car, and an estimate from a reputible parts company like ground up or year one etc. for the missing parts, plus shipping.


Don't even bother wasting your time taking the car back to him. He's already disgruntled, and has proven he can't do what he said, and I would bet it won't be any better if he tries. Let him explain his side to the judge. Just be prepared for him to lie under oath. Sounds like he's the type of guy to do it. Get all of the paperwork you can to document your truth. (or his lies)
Good luck, don't give up hope, and let us know what happens.

Dave
 
There is a company called Verifacts Automotive that acts as a third party and will inspect the car. They do this all over the country for lawyers, insurance companies and unhappy customers. They will go to court on your behalf if needed. Most of there cases never see court. They are very good at what they do. You should call them at 800-381-3447. They are in Calif. I think the website is www.verifactsauto.com Tell them Mike Stacy said to call.

Good Luck!!
 
Some people just dont take pride in their work and don't realize that bad service will come back to haunt them. I pitty da foolz.
Some people are so damn money hungry they lie to get what they want. Ive fallen victim to it more than once
 
That guy is a hack!.What reputable shop would release a classic without all the trim reinstalled and without buffing???. That's pitiful. Alot of paint shops are going downhill these days. Sorry to hear about your problems. Maybe some board members in your area could could stop by and give you a hand in buffing it out.
 
Ok, here is my take. I have had a few "occasions" to learn a little about this subject. Of course, some of this may be useless being I am in California and laws and procedures may be competely different there.


First, the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) has nothing what so ever to say about "quality". Quality as in "show quality" is SUBJECTIVE, plain and simple. It is an opinion, and can not be "writen in a contract", PERIOD. All they care about is fraud, did the shop do what was written on the work order, that is it. If they did not (they forgot) you have to give them the chance to make good. It can be done as poorly as the rest, but they "did it".

99% of the population including the judge that would oversee your case would walk up to that car in awe and say something like "You sure have kept that car nice, did you buy it new?" Forget the fact that you are standing there obviously born about three years after the car was mad! 99% of people don't have a clue what "show quality" is.

Personally, I can pick appart a $250,000 show car, EASY. HOWEVER, I can also look at something objectively and tell you if it is "good enough". So, there are plenty of people who can't be objective and will tell you how your car doesn't look like a $250,000 show car and you should sue.

I don't know about your neck of the woods but around here $7,000 would get you about what you got.

To get any more, or your money back is going to be darn hard. As mentioned before, this shop was effected by the "storm of the century". It is the "darling" of the feels good public and you wouldn't have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a case against someone who was effected. And for that matter, should you? If the guy really did loose one of his buildings and your parts were in it, doesn't he deserve a break? If he took in all the storm damaged cars to keep his business and not loose his families lively hood, is that so bad? I am not giving you the answers to these questions, just asking. The quality of this work may be "show quality" work may really be "show quality" work to him and the guys he runs with. It IS subjective after all. If you don't know, really know, that this work was substandard to the work he usually would do on a similar car for similar money, you don't know.

The shop can charge what ever they want to, there is no "rules" in a free market society. The fact that you paid for it, in the eyes of the court, you accepted the work. Even if it was your wife who picked it up, forget it, she paid.

I won a case one time in court that was similar to this. I had some bumpers chromed for a buddy off his 65 Vette. This Vette really was "Show quality" by anyone standards. The bumpers were fit to the body (if you aren't familier with these cars, they bolt right to the glass) and were perfect outside of the chrome. They were marked for indentification and given to the clowns. They brought them back looking like crap and one of them wasn't even his! I didn't know how bad they were being they were wrapped up when delivered and I didn't have time to open them. I paid with a check which I went and stopped payment on when they were opened. The shop sued me for non-payment.

In court we brought a bumper off my Vette showing how it should look, a poster of a finished red convertible and photos of the finished frame to teach the judge what a "show quality" meant. We lucked out by getting a lady judge who happened to be kind of a car nut and understood with our presentation that this bumper was not even "street quality" which is what the guy said was all that was promised.

We won the case, and didn't have to pay the money, but we never received the original bumper back. We gave up because you can only take "principles" so far, they are costly sometimes.

The long and short of it is this, see if the guy will finish the floor, polish it and make the door work and leave it at that. I am not saying the guy doesn't deserve to be sued and his ars kicked, I am just saying to "choose the hill you want to die on".

Brian
 
21 - 40 of 47 Posts