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Father and Son SS

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I am brand new to the forum, so please forgive me in advance for any breach of etiquitte. I will try to learn fast and fall in line...

My 14 year old son and I just bought a project car. 1965 SS. I know the engine is a 67 327, and the transmission is a M22. My question is this. Is there any way to tell what engine and transmission option originally came in the car? From the early research I have done on this, I take it the VIN doesn't help here. Is there possibly other clues? If it helps it has a factory tach with what I think is a 5200 redline and a 12 bolt.

Thanks,


Andy
 
#2 ·
Father and Son SS said:
Hi All,

I am brand new to the forum, so please forgive me in advance for any breach of etiquitte. I will try to learn fast and fall in line...

My 14 year old son and I just bought a project car. 1965 SS. I know the engine is a 67 327, and the transmission is a M22. My question is this. Is there any way to tell what engine and transmission option originally came in the car? From the early research I have done on this, I take it the VIN doesn't help here. Is there possibly other clues? If it helps it has a factory tach with what I think is a 5200 redline and a 12 bolt.

Thanks,


Andy
Click to expand...
Welcome and congrats for doing a project with your son! :yes:

Sadly there's no way of knowing what engine the car came with as the VIN will only denote an L6 (137xx) or V8 (138xx). Depending on where the car was built there may be some group options on the trim tag that will identify an optional transmission type but only Atlanta, Framingham, and KC did this. If it's one of these three, check the 4th line for something like W 2L, W 2M, or such. In group 2 "L" is a 4-speed and "M" is a Powerglide. If it's a Baltimore or Fremont car, there will not be these codes so there's no way to tell.

I may be mistaken but I think there were only two tachometers (both optional) in 1965. One was for the L79 engine option and it was redlined at 5600 and all others at 5200 so pretty safe to say not an L79. But that still leaves the 327/ 250 L30 or 327/300 L74 if the 12-bolt is original to the car.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Dale,


Thank you for your for the nice welcome and informative response. Very helpful. My car is a fremont car, so again more mystery. Do you happen to know if there is a way to tell if the 12 bolt is original?? Also, if there is a way and it is original, is that a definitive clue that the car came with the L74?
 
#4 ·
Father and Son SS said:
Dale,


Thank you for your for the nice welcome and informative response. Very helpful. My car is a fremont car, so again more mystery. Do you happen to know if there is a way to tell if the 12 bolt is original?? Also, if there is a way and it is original, is that a definitive clue that the car came with the L74?
Click to expand...
Sadly there's nothing stamped on the rear end to tie it to a specific car. The only thing one can do is see if the stamped date (on passenger side front of axle tube) and ID code is compatible with the date of the car.
See my page at http://chevellestuff.net/1965/rear_axle.htm for location and examples. Naturally with the engine and trans being changed it's possible the rear end was too but that's not as common.

Since the 283-4 and 327 engines were optional I don't think there's any indication in fuel lines (maybe 3/8" vs. 5/16") that'll conclusively prove an L74 over an L30 that both probably had the larger 3/8" fuel lines. Not that up on the optinal engines in 65 but I'd suspect the base 283-2 and 283-4 had 5/16" lines and 10-bolt rears. I have a power teams chart on my page at http://chevellestuff.net/1965/power_teams.htm that shows the various engine/trans/rear ends. The L30, L74, and L79 all came with 12 bolt gear ratios where the two 283s came with 10 bolt ratios.
 
#6 ·
Did you by any chance get the owner's manual and packet in the glove box?
If you had the protecto-plate it would give you the codes for the engine, transmission and rearend.

You say the car has an M22. If you check it more likely is an M20 Muncie.

A project for you and your son to work on is a great thing, way to go!

Post some pictures of the car and ask lots of questions. There is lots of expertise on the forum and they are happy to help.
 
#7 ·
Andy, Dales chevelle stuff site is absolutely the most useful thing I have ever used! I dont know if I have ever thanked Dale so Im doing it now. THANKS DALE. And Andy, Hope you and your son have a great experience. Ken K.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Hi All,


Truly, thank you for all the nice messages.

First on my son, So glad he has the gear-head DNA. My business partner is a big car guy and none of his 3 son's care at all about cars beyond transportation. So sad. When my son and I went to test drive the car the first time, on the hour long drive I told him, "don't act too excited when you see it. We will meet the guy, ask some questions and drive it, then go home and discuss". When we test drove it and the owner said go for it. I puched it through 3 gears on a long straight country road and when I pulled up to the stop sign my son said, "DAD, we HAVE to buy this" so much for my prepping him to play it cool.

On the trans, I think there might be a chance it is a rock crusher. It has that distinctive whine and feel. The engine appears to be a 67 maybe from a corvette? Camel hump heads, 6 quart oil pan. Sadly the numbers on the deck by the front of the passenger side head have been milled off. Here I go acting like I know what I am talking about, but I actually don't. I just read a few things lately and am trying to understand what I have. I will get trans and rear end numbers and maybe float them out here to see what you guys might know...

Dale, your compelation of info is very impressive. I expect I will visit many times....


I picked this very car because it has the right things wrong with it. 10-12 bite size items to teach my 14 year old some basic stuff. Pictures and more questions on the way in the next week or so.

Thanks to you all. Love this forum.

Andy
 
#10 ·
Father and Son SS said:
Hi All,

The engine appears to be a 67 maybe from a corvette? Camel hump heads, 6 quart oil pan.
Click to expand...
All 67 327 heads were 'camel hump' so there's nothing special about them except for the 1.94/1.50 valve size as opposed to the 1.72/1.50 in the 283. The 67 L79 used larger valves, 2.02/1.60. Casting #3890462 was used in all Chevrolet lines in 1967 and aside from the valve sizes there's no difference in passenger/Chevelle/Chevy II/Corvette/Camaro use. "Corvette" heads sounds sexier than "Bel Air" or "Impala" heads but the 1.94/1.50 heads were the same "camel hump" heads. ;) Only way to tell the larger valve heads is to pull them and check the intake/exhaust sizes.

The M22 will have a distinctive whine to it but it'll "feel" the same as the M21 as both were the same close ratio gear ratios. Might check to see if there's a date stamp visible on it. The 67/68 model years had a format such as P7B10 or P8A10 where 60-74 included A, B, or C suffix for M20, M21, or M22. Good Muncie info on my page at http://chevellestuff.net/qd/muncie.htm
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Great. Thanks for this info, and for the great stuf on your linked page. I will be pulling the transmission later this summer to get a leak fixed, and will have a chance to figure out what I have for sure.

Also thank you for ithe tutorialon the camel hump heads. I read on line for an hour, and didnt get anywhere near that good of info.


Andy
 
#12 ·
Andy,
Enjoy the time with your son. You're creating lifelong memories.
I don't have a son, but I have a daughter. She never cared much for cars, but always called me when they needed fixing (until she bought a Honda). Her husband Mike, must have had some dormant gearhead DNA, cuz I've got him hooked. Michele decided she wanted to "build a car with my Daddy". yah, right.........I still haven't seen her get her hands dirty. But, Mike and I bought a 67 Malibu wagon for them.
Mike goes to all the swap meets with me, has helped me on an engine swap, is helping me with my 56 210 build, and collecting parts for the wagon.
Mike is a supervisor for a cabinet shop. He started there sweeping floors, and has done every different task imaginable. One day he spotted my spray paint guns, and said, we use one just like this at work........imagine my suprise..........and this boy can paint! He just painted the dash in my 56 last Saturday, and it looks awesome!
It'll be interesting to see the skills your son picks up, and who's better at what in a few years.
The memories you'll develop will be unbelievable. You're developing a lifetime of gearhead togetherness. Good for you both!
Bill
 
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Father and Son SS
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