66 SS convertible chevelle

Copious · Mar 21, 2013

I'm looking to buy a 138 SS, but the seller is saying its matching #'s but only the rear end, tranny and heads. The block was changed but has 66 block.

Is this still considered matching? Does it still hold the value? It is very clean, and was a frame up resto 20 years ago selling for 31k

Thoughts? Do u feel this is a good price?

Copious · Mar 21, 2013

Btw- here is the car

davewho1 · Mar 21, 2013

Copious said:
I'm looking to buy a 138 SS, but the seller is saying its matching #'s but only the rear end, tranny and heads. The block was changed but has 66 block.

Is this still considered matching? Does it still hold the value? It is very clean, and was a frame up resto 20 years ago selling for 31k

Thoughts? Do u feel this is a good price?

Welcome to TC, Rob.

Differentials and heads can't be "matching numbers" because they weren't stamped with VIN numbers. They MAY be original to the car if the date codes are within a certain window coinciding with the car's build date - there's really no way to be absolutely POSITIVE. AND the diff needs to have the proper code stamped on it. The trans "should" have the VIN stamped on it.

No pics show up in your second post.

1966_L78 · Mar 21, 2013

I agree with Dave...

Matching Numbers means that the VIN (partial) matches between the car and those parts that had the VIN; engine block and trans. Of course, everything else should also be the correct casting numbers and dates too...

Those "matching" VINs are what make those piece the one and ONLY original for that particular car (except for forgeries)... Being the original part is why the value is great, because its not as common. Part broke and were replaced over the 40+ years these cars have been around... So finding the one that has its original components isn't always easy.

Since "matching numbers" usually makes the cars worth more because its more desirable with collectors, often sellers will use that term (matching Numbers) to market their car for more money... Some people use "date correct" components, some use correct castings, but NONE of these are the original, "born-with" parts...

Heads...
There can literally be thousands of "correct heads" out there... Figure if its a 325 or 360 HP car (#702 heads), then there were over 70,000 Chevelles using those parts (72,272 SS cars, plus 1,800++ El Caminos, minus the 3099 L78s)... Thats almost 6,000 heads per month... So figure a 2 month window for "correct" dates, and thats 24,000 heads that could be considered "correct"... And that doesn't include the Corvette and Impala/Full-size cars that used the same castings...

Copious said:
a frame up resto 20 years ago selling for 31k

I thought it was a 10-year old resto?

$31K for a NON matching number convertible, with and older resto... Doesn't sound like a bad price, ASSUMING its solid and "correct"... Didn't you also mention it was a 4-speed?

As long as that 138 VIN hasn't been played with, and its solid, then $31k doesn't sound too bad... If it a bondo bucket, or hastily bolted together crap, they maybe not...

Even though a non-matching numbers car won't reach the value of matching, it should still hold its value pretty well...

Copious · Mar 21, 2013

Photo

Copious · Mar 21, 2013

Tanks Tony, I posted a pic, body is straight, clean title, its 360 HP, 4 speed, runs well, I was a bit concerned that I was getting a really good deal at 31k. As I see this condition going for 40+ k. I'm looking to keep it forever and hand it down to my boy someday

1966_L78 · Mar 21, 2013

As I mentioned, the 138 in the VIN (138676...) is probably enough to keep the value high, as long as its a quality car...

As for the "360HP" and the "4-speed", is there any documentation? Basically, the 325HP and 360HP were very similar (basically a cam and different tune and the open-element air cleaner, same heads, same intake, etc)...

IF there's no proof on the "360HP", I use that to negotiate... But thats me...

1966_L78 · Mar 21, 2013

Rob,

Wasthat car out of the Santa Rosa area? I seem to recall a '66 SS convertible a few months ago, at a "reasonable" price... I don't recall the color...

Copious · Mar 22, 2013

No, it's in Danta Barbara, real 138. Looks nice, huh? So 31k would be a good deal then? I see cars at this level asking 40k+.

1966_L78 · Mar 22, 2013

IF, and I say IF, the car is as you described, AND the body is solid (not a bunch of bondo with a "Resale Red" paintjob), then it could be a decent buy at $31K... But that mostly depends on the quality of the work... Also, it should truly be a factory 4-speed car, and have a '66 12-bolt and '66 Muncie... IF the rearend and transmission are NOT "1966" parts, then I'd question everything else told to you (you did mention that your were told the car had the correct trans and rear, right?)...

Trust with you eyes and your gut...

Also, whats the possibility of negotiation?

Copious · Mar 22, 2013

But how do u get documentation ? Basically get the block casting #, right?

keithb · Mar 22, 2013

Real GM POP, bill of sale, window sticker, and a paper trail to the first owner. While all that is faked today and you can spot them if you know what to look for. But that's is what you want.

Copious · Mar 22, 2013

396/360

keithb · Mar 22, 2013

Or a wrong open air cleaner and a 3 dollar sticker. What does the block stamp read

Copious · Mar 22, 2013

Interior

davewho1 · Mar 22, 2013

Bigger pics would be nice.

nashville beth · Mar 22, 2013

Skip Cain wrote this about how to spot a fake :

What to look for: First and most obvious check the VIN. A true Supersport (66 and 67) will be 13817 or 13867 if a convertible. Also check the rivets that fasten the VIN tag and cowl tag to the car. The cowl tag rivets should have hollow heads, and the VIN tag rivets are special star shaped. Regular hardware type rivets should raise a flag, as these tags have probably been replaced.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...G;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevelles.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D372386;640;218

Another area to check is underneath the car. Bonafide Supersports used a pair of special rear suspension supports. These tied in to the upper and lower control arm mounting points(above the mufflers.)

Also check the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump. Big block cars used 3/8” fuel lines. Most small block cars used the 5/16” lines.

The more obvious differences are front grills, rear end (only 12 bolts were used.) and no body side mouldings or holes for the mouldings. One guy tried to explain to me that the car I was looking at was a real Supersport, but both fenders, doors and quarterpanels were replaced from a Malibu.

1966_L78 · Mar 22, 2013

I am guessing it doesn't have the correct carburetor (the PCV hose routing is wrong)...

That doesn't mean I am trying to bash the car, just trying to point out obvious errors to help you determine what it is and isn't...

Appears to be the correct radiator, remote P/S. Somebody converted to discs (great for a driver)

Refreshing to see all the correct Short Water Pump stuff...

Any pictures of the trim/cowl tag and the VIN plate?

66 SS convertible chevelle

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