if you can't help, its still funny

Broodle1 · May 9, 2004

I can't help but laugh a little at the problem I'm having. It's like the gods of chevy are mocking me. I've never had an electrical problem I couldn't fix before, I'm pretty good with wiring and used to install aftermarket electronics, but this one has me stumped. First, it's a '70 sb sweep dash. My starter had split in half, not sure how that could happen, but naturally I replaced it. Since it was running again, I decided to clean it, including the engine bay. After that it was running rough, like it was missing on some cylinders, and then wouldn't run at all, just sputter a little. I assumed the distributor got wet so I replaced the cap, coil and rotor for good measure. No sputtering, no starting, and now the starter would 'stall' while cranking. Took the starter back and found out the solenoid was shot. Replaced the starter again, still no sputtering or starting, and to top that, the starter won't stop turning without disconnecting the battery. So not much was left but to replace the ignition switch, that didn't do it either. After replacing the cap coil and rotor, I noticed my voltage at the batt terminal on the cap and at the alternator post dropped to between 8.5 and 9.5 volts while cranking, never noticed it this low before and don't know if it's related. I am reading ~.2 volts on the starter switch wire after I let off the key, could this be feedback because the starter is still turning? First step, check grounds, they look good, test continuous from battery, right fender, engine block, and firewall. So I wonder if I'm having two separate problems... starter run-on and no firing, or are they related in some way to the voltage drop while cranking? I get a weak arc when I pull a plug wire and crank, but my inductive timing light doesn't flash when cranking (not entirely sure it should). I'm not even sure what to ask at this point, except what would you do? I need my car!

- Broodle1

DanaB · May 9, 2004

hey Broodle1 try unplugging the wiring harnace from the firewall and dry it out it could verywell have water in it and causing the prob.

Broodle1 · May 9, 2004

Thanks for the quick reply Dana. I guess I should have said I'm doing all this in my spare time, all these problems have mounted over the last couple of weeks, and my car's been dry-docked in the shop for over a week. Please keep the suggestions coming, I'm at a loss for a place to start looking right now.

- Broodle1

Broodle1 · May 9, 2004

Maybe a rambling story isn't the best way to get help...

Anyone know how low the voltage normally drops while cranking, or if it drops at all?

What can cause the .2 volts I measured in my starter switch wire after I let off the key? I think this is causing my starter run-on, but could it be an effect?

I'm wondering if the coil is getting enough voltage while cranking because the voltage drop and my inductive timing light doesn't strobe. Anyone know if a timing light strobes during cranking?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'm without wheels and have spent more than I can afford trying to fix this already.

John_Muha · May 9, 2004

To assure that the coil is getting full voltage you can run a jumper from battery (+) to coil (+). Don't leave it on very long before you try and start the car. The coil doesn't like voltage to it without the car running.
If you try this you can also remove the wires that go to coil (+). Tape them back. You will also need to remove the battery/coil jumper wire to shut the car off.
The test jumper might give you an idea of what's going on. See how the car behaves. Might tell you if you have one or two problems because you can control things with the jumper.

Broodle1 · May 9, 2004

Thanks John. I tried jumping to the coil before the starter began the run-on problem (that would have been the first replacement starter, this is the second... sheesh), so I wasn't sure about doing it again after the solenoid went out. But if the only danger is to the coil, I'll try it again. Maybe I had a bad solenoid to begin with. Can't put much faith in rebuilt starters, imho.

Broodle1 · May 9, 2004

I tried running a jumper to the coil, nothing changed. Short of rewiring the entire primary circuit (which I'm now considering my last hope), any other suggestions?

- Broodle1

John_Muha · May 9, 2004

Nothing changed how?? I assume you are still running a points ignition. With the points and dwell set correctly you should have a strong spark as it cranks. If it's a points ignition yank off # 1 plug wire and see if it arcs to ground while cranking.

Cheap68 · May 9, 2004

Broodle, Did you get your problems solved. If not you may want to back up and concentrate on one problem at a time.I would get the starter issue solved before I chased after no fire. The .2 volts should not be keeping the solenoid pulled in. Yes you will see a voltage drop when you crank the engine because you are putting a load on the battery.Good luck and post what you find wrong. David

Tom's 68 · May 10, 2004

if you are running points
is the resistor wire hooked up to the ignition lug on starter
and did you test that for continuity to the coil

Broodle1 · May 12, 2004

Thanks for the replies guys, I've been tied up at work for a couple of days... no internet access there. I'm running an HEI distributor, new from Accel. There is 12 volts at the BAT terminal on the distributor with the key on, is that what you meant by test for continuity, Tom?

Cheap68, I had the same idea, one thing at a time, but I can't figure out why the starter continues to crank after I let off the key. The only thing I can find out of place is that voltage in the starter switch wire after I release the key. Any thing else you know of that would cause a starter to do that?

John, you're right, nothing changed is pretty vague. I meant to say all the voltages read the same, the starter still didn't shut off without pulling a battery cable, and the engine turned but didn't start or sputter. I'm really at a loss on this one guys, and these mystery bugs cost a fortune at a mechanic's shop, besides being towed there. Needless to say, I'm fortuneless, but I'm tired of catching rides to work, so please, keep the suggestions coming.

Have I mentioned this forum is more useful than being drinking buddies with all the mechanics in this county? I'd be lost without it. Thanks again.

John_Muha · May 12, 2004

1, Where are you getting power from for the HEI? Need a separate lead for that unit and not the original resistor wire. Wire can be run from the IGN terminal. HEIs are self-contained. If you have a poor spark, problem is with the HEI unit. Transformer OK? Internal ground strap attached? The module check out ok?
2, The starter should have a purple wire on the "S" terminal. With HEI no wire needs to be attached to the "R" terminal. You should be able to reach under the dash and pull the purple/purple stripe wire off the Neutral Safety Switch. Once removed, measure the purple from the ignition switch as you turn the key to START and then back again. Measure that wire to ground. You should voltage go to 12 volts and back to 0 as you release the key. If this occurs, the ignition switch is OK and the problem is with the starter/solenoid.

Tom's 68 · May 13, 2004

is it possible that the starter needs a shim and is to tight (bendix to flywheel or flexplate) keeping the bendix from releasing
if it is not releasing it may be holding the solenoid in the on position without power applied to it from the start switch

Broodle1 · May 17, 2004

Finally got the starter problem figured out... three bad starters in a row. Just didn't figure that could happen. The solenoid didn't open the circuit after the switch was released. I still can't get the car to start though. Full tank of gas, gas in the bowls and jets are squirting, and I figure the coil is firing well enough (I pulled a wire and instead of arcing it hit me pretty good, felt like enough!). Still can't figure out why it won't even sputter, though. At this point I'm figuring maybe the carburetor? Its a holley 4 bbl electric choke vac secondaries, I've tried changing the mixture screws up and down but that's about all I know to try, carburetors are a funny looking mystery to me. Thanks for the help thus far, everyone.

- Broodle1

Tom's 68 · May 17, 2004

you are getting spark
are you getting gas?
is the distributor still pointing to number 1 at tdc with timing mark
is the engine new or old (if old, could the timing chain have jumped)

street/strip68 · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by Broodle1:
(I pulled a wire and instead of arcing it hit me pretty good, felt like enough!). - Broodle1

you made me laugh.. I can relate, my MSD bit me the other day while I was trying to check for a dead plug wire. YEOW!! that got my attention! As mentioned above, I also would look for a timing issue. Make sure your rotor is screwed on pointed to the right plug, correct firing order, plug wire routing and the mechanical weights are there (had an a buddy who's car would quit intermittently, he lifted the cap and the rotor fell out, it was an hei, also had another buddy who had broken mechanical advance springs so the car wouldn't start) And, yes, the strobe in the timing light will fire during cranking, it will fire any time the plug you attatch it to does.

shawn's69conv · May 25, 2004

If you got gas through all of that trying to crank it, you may want to check if your plugs are fouled out.

if you can't help, its still funny

Broodle1

DanaB

Broodle1

Broodle1

John_Muha

Broodle1

Broodle1

John_Muha

Cheap68

Tom's 68

Broodle1

John_Muha

Tom's 68

Broodle1

Tom's 68

street/strip68

shawn's69conv

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