Back in the old days, Im talking the early 80s my freind and I would look for 396 impalas, through down the 50 bucks and drag it home. At this point we would break out the gunk engine degreaser and start degreasing, this process would take about a month, after this was complete off came the heads, the call would be made to Herman Chapman for one of his valve jobs, the cam of choice was 240s @ .050 Schneider solid lifter cam sporting .540 lift. The heads would go back on with steel shim head gaskets of course. the finishing touch would be a edelbrock torker oval port intake (you know the one where the carb sits crooked) with a 850 holley, and not to forget the gold moroso valve covers. On to the drive line, a turbo 350 trans with a B&M shift improver of course set on the firm mode, backed up by a vega converter. Now what did all this 80s ultra low buck trickery net us young punks, well in a 67 chevelle we would get high 11s, but the learning was priceless. Back to today, I was buying some cores from this old codjer and to my suprise he had a virgin 396 4 bolt short block mint still with the steel shim marks on the deck, this brought back these childhood memories. My question to the forum is: should I buy it and put the solid lifter cam in it and 215 heads and the edelbrock intake along with the gold moroso valve covers and through it on the dyno?
Who wants to see this?
VORTECPRO
41 - 60 of 74 Posts
Very interested in this build...Would like to see outcome :yes:
Buddy just bought a virgin 68 396 carb to pan. $300...lucky SOB.
Anywho, he had it bored +.030,upgraded stock size rods and is looking for aftermarket heads. Cam is 240something and 590ish lift. It will be going into a 68Camaro (motors build date is 3 weeks before cars) He's building an SS Clone.
Buddy just bought a virgin 68 396 carb to pan. $300...lucky SOB.
Anywho, he had it bored +.030,upgraded stock size rods and is looking for aftermarket heads. Cam is 240something and 590ish lift. It will be going into a 68Camaro (motors build date is 3 weeks before cars) He's building an SS Clone.
i am only 33, and have listened to stories from my father and uncles my whole life about these combos and the street races that came with them. i would love to see how these retro parts actually make power! did most people in the late 70's or early 80's even know about short turn radius and bowl blending?? how about how most of them still ran dual point dist. and how most guys had 2" muffler shop duals.
i would love to see what a seasoned vetren could do with the limitations of these early parts. i am most interested in the dyno charts to see how peaky the power is! DO THIS BUILD!!!! :yes:
i would love to see what a seasoned vetren could do with the limitations of these early parts. i am most interested in the dyno charts to see how peaky the power is! DO THIS BUILD!!!! :yes:
Not surprising that these little motors will run well with little prep. This is all we ran for brackets back in the day - motors were plentiful and cheap. I'll use the 408" motor in Rich's car as an example. 11.98 @113.4. 408" motor with Comp 288 street roller. Ede 290cc heads w/ 2.19/1.88 valves (which in reality, adecent prepped set of 215's would work just as well - or better). Car has 10" 3000 stall converter and 4.10 gears. Race weight w/ driver is probably in the 3800 range. Simple restall to 3800-4000 and I'd bet the car drops to 11.70's. Heaven forbid swap the gear to some 4.56's along with the converter swap. Big or small - a Rat motor is a Rat motor.
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
I'd sure want to see the pistons before the build, many of the old 396's can be bored to 4.250 or more. I'd hate to see somebody try to pass a 454 or 496 off as a 396, sounds shady, like something I'd do...
Just razzin ya, Mark. Build it, I've always wondered what a small bore short stroke big block could do in the right hands. I'm guessing around 460hp/tq
Just razzin ya, Mark. Build it, I've always wondered what a small bore short stroke big block could do in the right hands. I'm guessing around 460hp/tq
Looks like we better start looking for some pistons, 402 .030 over, and a intake! Cause were going to build it!
Joined
·
2,643 Posts
Cool, I'd like to see this.:hurray:
Joined
·
5,065 Posts
That's a separate issue.
Note you're only asking if we're sure, not if you're sick. Good call.DO IT!! It would be a fun test engine.
Joined
·
310 Posts
Hey Mark, don't you have an "old school" LS-6, LS-7 at your shop? If it's not already built, how about building it with the stock heads, crank, dimple rods, etc. I'd like to see what one of those old monsters could put up for dyno numbers too.:hurray:
build the 396 your old school way...... then dyno
Post numbers......
then build it with your magic dust on the heads......... then dyno
Post numbers........
And make em cry, go back to the garage..... and figure out what is this guy doing that I am not able to do.......
I am game for taking a board, $100 a square
400-425HP old school way
450-525HP new way...
...............
Post numbers......
then build it with your magic dust on the heads......... then dyno
Post numbers........
And make em cry, go back to the garage..... and figure out what is this guy doing that I am not able to do.......
I am game for taking a board, $100 a square
400-425HP old school way
450-525HP new way...
...............
Joined
·
76 Posts
may have the pistons.
joe
joe
i agree, old school it first. then put your magic into it and see the difference. would be a cool expirement . you can always sell it when your done. sometimes you gotta get these things out of your system or they will follow you where ever you go. Happy Thanksgiving
Joined
·
5,069 Posts
Yes you're sick......and Soooooo COOL!
Man, you just brought back a ton of memories! I had a 396/350HP '69 Chevelle that was spanked hard regularly. Only managed high 13's on G-60x14 street tires with a T-400 and 3.31's and a single track. I had headers and regularly beat a buddy with an SS454 Monte Carlo. Less cubes, but more compression and headers made the difference.
That same 396 ended up in a '72 Nova street racer deal. Sloppy *Boss Hog* converter (Vega ones were plentiful but slipped a LOT on the big end!), 4.11 gears in a *shimmed up* 9" out of a Cougar (near bolt in!) Cheap rebuild on cast stock bottom end, pocket ported ovals, various flat tappets, Twisted Torker intake and later a Holley Strip Dominator (!) and it ran low 12's on some more of those G-60x14's (hey..we were broke!). Got a *Marvin Miller* N20 kit and ran deep 11's with it on 9" slicks and never hurt anything!
Later I stumbled into a 396/375 shortblock that had been through a hard life. Already had one sleeve...and needed 2 more by the time I got it finished. Lots of helicoiled head bolt holes too! I used rectangular port heads, an L-88 cam and an ancient Weiand Tunnel Ram with 2x660's on it. It all went in an ex-NHRA and AHRA World Record holder and Super Chevy feature car that I bought as a roller and stuck on the street. Ran a Muncie and 5.38's/5.57's in the Dana 60 with 14x32's and it regularly pulled some killer wheelies in 2nd and 3rd gear. Ran 10.60's on pump gas. Shifts were in the 7500+ range according to the Moroso cable tach. We still have the shortblock....minus all the rear bellhousing holes. Had a little clutch explosion that hurt some stuff pretty bad!!
Anyway, 396's ran very well in their day and still can today. With your headwork I don't see how they couldn't embarrass a lot of *trick builds* out there today!
Definitely need the gold Moroso's or the finned M/T's!
And a velocity stack!!
JIM
Man, you just brought back a ton of memories! I had a 396/350HP '69 Chevelle that was spanked hard regularly. Only managed high 13's on G-60x14 street tires with a T-400 and 3.31's and a single track. I had headers and regularly beat a buddy with an SS454 Monte Carlo. Less cubes, but more compression and headers made the difference.
That same 396 ended up in a '72 Nova street racer deal. Sloppy *Boss Hog* converter (Vega ones were plentiful but slipped a LOT on the big end!), 4.11 gears in a *shimmed up* 9" out of a Cougar (near bolt in!) Cheap rebuild on cast stock bottom end, pocket ported ovals, various flat tappets, Twisted Torker intake and later a Holley Strip Dominator (!) and it ran low 12's on some more of those G-60x14's (hey..we were broke!). Got a *Marvin Miller* N20 kit and ran deep 11's with it on 9" slicks and never hurt anything!
Later I stumbled into a 396/375 shortblock that had been through a hard life. Already had one sleeve...and needed 2 more by the time I got it finished. Lots of helicoiled head bolt holes too! I used rectangular port heads, an L-88 cam and an ancient Weiand Tunnel Ram with 2x660's on it. It all went in an ex-NHRA and AHRA World Record holder and Super Chevy feature car that I bought as a roller and stuck on the street. Ran a Muncie and 5.38's/5.57's in the Dana 60 with 14x32's and it regularly pulled some killer wheelies in 2nd and 3rd gear. Ran 10.60's on pump gas. Shifts were in the 7500+ range according to the Moroso cable tach. We still have the shortblock....minus all the rear bellhousing holes. Had a little clutch explosion that hurt some stuff pretty bad!!
Anyway, 396's ran very well in their day and still can today. With your headwork I don't see how they couldn't embarrass a lot of *trick builds* out there today!
Definitely need the gold Moroso's or the finned M/T's!
And a velocity stack!!
JIM
AND this too!!!
those were the days.
i built a 402 with 11 to 1 pistons with open chamber 820 heads , general kenetics hyd 232 duration 540 lift and ran 12.08@ 115 mph in my nova with stock heads springs and rockers. nothing but pistons and a cam and ran it hard. :thumbsup:
i built a 402 with 11 to 1 pistons with open chamber 820 heads , general kenetics hyd 232 duration 540 lift and ran 12.08@ 115 mph in my nova with stock heads springs and rockers. nothing but pistons and a cam and ran it hard. :thumbsup:
396 std bore, 11-1 closed chamber slugs ran with pocket ported 702's @ about 95CC"s, L=88 solid cam, Cheapy Darrell Young 4000 converter, 700 DP'r, 4.56's and ran 10.90's with a small shot of squeeze in my 69 chevelle. Plenty more ET there had I knew what I was doing, I was just 18-19 years old.
Changed to a solid roller and a set of 291, untouched, rec ports, when I was 19-20, and ran 10.62 running out of fuel on the top end. Lots more in that combo too but didn't know enough. The stock fuel line and tank wouldn't support it any longer and I'm pretty sure it was hindering the first 396 combo.
I wish Mike was closer, I still have the short block and it's completely fresh with new pistons. Has thumb rods with good rod bolts, steel crank, balanced, block is line honed and decked. Would make a great test mule.
I sure wish I had a flow bench and dyno right here in my back yard.
Changed to a solid roller and a set of 291, untouched, rec ports, when I was 19-20, and ran 10.62 running out of fuel on the top end. Lots more in that combo too but didn't know enough. The stock fuel line and tank wouldn't support it any longer and I'm pretty sure it was hindering the first 396 combo.
I wish Mike was closer, I still have the short block and it's completely fresh with new pistons. Has thumb rods with good rod bolts, steel crank, balanced, block is line honed and decked. Would make a great test mule.
I sure wish I had a flow bench and dyno right here in my back yard.
Actually Holley still has them, and they'll even rebuild it for you, if you send it in. I asked them about this once, and they told me they've always had the rebuild kits in stock, and they happily offer 'factory' rebuilds.
Oh- and this engine NEEDS the T-bars holding down the valve covers...
Joined
·
118 Posts
Awe you brought back memories for me as well, expect my buddy was in to Fords. One car he got was a 1970 LTD with a 429 but he would hack some weight off..lets see..he even put a wood board for a back bumper. Put some cheap headers--no mufflers of course and run the thing till the frame broke.
Never forget the time four of us were inside and went flat out down a 2 lane road with the side windows all open--wait I believe he removed them cause it was summer, lol. The headliner caved in at like 120 and we were all holding it up so he could drive--some high school security dude was after us for doing a lawn job at the school, ha ha.
I wasn't in it when the frame broke, crazy guy was jumping curbs with it.
Yeah he got it for $50 I think.
Never forget the time four of us were inside and went flat out down a 2 lane road with the side windows all open--wait I believe he removed them cause it was summer, lol. The headliner caved in at like 120 and we were all holding it up so he could drive--some high school security dude was after us for doing a lawn job at the school, ha ha.
I wasn't in it when the frame broke, crazy guy was jumping curbs with it.
Yeah he got it for $50 I think.
Joined
·
18,738 Posts
I wish I had them Moroso valve covers and Blue Max wires I threw on an old 66 Biscayne. Dropped a valve in that old 396. Pop pop pop thru the Qjet. At 16, I was curious if a car would run without a carb, just by pointing the fuel into the gaping hole in the mani. IT DID! FEROCIOUSLY! And that was after I did a one wheel burnout on ice, hit dry pavement, and shattered the spider gears.
What fun I had with that $100 winter car. My buddy still runs the T400 in his 68 Camaro.
What fun I had with that $100 winter car. My buddy still runs the T400 in his 68 Camaro.
41 - 60 of 74 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
