Team Chevelle banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

70_FathomBlueMalibu

· Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to put together an engine combo for a friend. He has a '81 GMC Sierra pickup with about $1750 cash in hand, for parts and machining. I need ideas and prices, as I've figured and refigured and I just don't see how I can get it under $2300, if that. That's just too much. I really hate to build him a $1000 turd.

He just wants a pretty quick street car/truck that sounds decent. I figured 375hp or so, would be enough to scare him for a while. This guy's never really had anything fast.

Here are the particulars:

1. 350 block from the early 90's. Not much dough allowed for "extra" machine work. As in, decking and squaring the block is probably out. I figure a dip, Magnuflux, bore and hone job.

2. stock 350 1-piece crank must be reused. How much does it cost to have it checked and turned?

3. stock rods need to be reused. Hopefully a recondition job and some ARP bolts will be sufficient. Prices?

4. A good rebuild kit. As in, pistons, rings, gaskets, freeze plugs, bearings and a timing set. I'm not fond of cast pistons and I've no experience with the hypereutectics. Forged is probably overkill, but is there a relatively cheap kit out there that might get me 9.5:1 CR with a 64cc head? Can anyone talk me into using something other than forged?

5. Low maintainance means a hydraulic cam. I was thinking in the range of this, to have some torque for this heavy truck, but yet not run out of breath at 4500. $150 for cam and lifters.

224/230 @.050
.500 lift or so
112 LSA with a 108 ICL

The truck has power brakes and A/C, so some vacuum is a must.

6. Vortec heads. I'd like to get the Scoggin-Dickey ones that are set up to accomodate the higher lift. I THINK they run about $550.

7. Vortec heads necessitate a Vortec intake. I like the RPM Vortec. About $200 or so.

8. Holley 3310 carb 750 cfm. Maybe $230.

9. Flywheel and balancer. Nothing fancy. $80

10. Cheap 1 5/8" headers. $100

11. Stock water pump and a Carter fuel pump. $85

12. belts, hoses, plugs, wires, misc. $100

13. Not to mention the rocker arms and pushrods. Not sure on this one. Maybe some Crane Blazer rollertips and whatever pushrod.

I want to reuse as much of the tinwork as possible, as the look isn't that important. I haven't actually seen his core yet, but I'm hoping it has a distributor I can refreshen or
that would bump up the cost. Any little thing I can reuse off of it will be a bonus.

Oh yeah, he's going with 28" tall tires and either a 350TH or a 700R-4. Gearing is around 3.08, which IMHO sux. He either needs lots of torque or more gear.

I just don't know if I can get him what he wants, for how much he's willing to spend. He's trying to put his whole truck together for $5000. That's body, paint, engine, tranny and interior freshening. He'll probably need a converter with the cam I end up going with.

I wish I had these problems for myself. Having cash in hand and wondering where to spend all of it. :rolleyes: ANY suggestions, cheap combos you've run in the past or present are welcome. I may need a wake-up call on this one.

I'm gonna go get the Northern Auto Parts catalog out to see what they have.....
Image
 
Save
I think for what he wants a Vortec 383 w/dished pistons is a good option (Speed Pro Hypers might be a good choice, but something with the correct pin height. Nothing wrong with hypers for the right use). A Scat cast crank isn't very much money. The pistons shouldn't be more money than 350 slugs. Keep the compression below 9.5 and use a smaller torque cam. RPM is not his friend. Using the existing heads would save a bundle. They can probably be rebuilt for under $300, then you can use a $100 new, $50 used Performer manifold. He probably has a Q-Jet and that would be an excellent choice, just rebuild it.
 
First, forget "horsepower", build for torque. Get the compression to mid - upper 9's, go with a single pattern cam with tight lobe centers [220/220 (max) @ .050 on 108 - 110] something like the ISKY 264 Mega 264/264, 214,214 .450/.450 on 108LCA will hit real hard, absolutely no benefit to a cam as big as you are looking at in a truck, unless you want to run it to 6500RPM or be a dog down low. This will build the max mid range torque. If you can reuse his stock heads, go get a used dual plane intake, plenty of these around cheap. No reason at all to run this motor over 5500 RPM - Hyperpistons, recon rods and a stock crank will work great. 600 CFM carb - no more. Plain old stamped rockers are all he needs. Save the extra money and put it towards a set of gears - best bang for the buck, make sure he has big gears in there. No less than a 3.73 w/ 28" tall tire.
 
Tell him to sell the truck and find an older 80's model S-10. The best ones are the reg cab short bed no options models (which usually weigh 2500-2800 lbs curb weight). They can usually be found for $500-$1500. With a mild 350 pushing 300 horse, TH350 and a good 3.42-3.73 gear that should be enuff to put it in the 13-14 second range and put a smile across his face that will be hard to erase.
 
ok check this out ,i built a basic hands down combo for about 800 bucks (which included my labor cost) for a 1981 chevy 1/2 ton pickup with 3.08 gears(single spinner) that ran 15.80's......with street tires and open headers at the track.

-350 bored .030 over.....bore 80 bucks
-cleaned block inside out by hand.......free plus alot of time soap and water
-crank 10/10 65.00 bucks
-pistons (flat tops 4 valve),oil pump,timming chain, gasket kit,bearings,rings,freeze plugs right around the 130.00 mark shipped to the house.
- hang pistons on rods 25.00 bucks
-284 crane cam and lifters 80 bucks
-heads was tore down cleaned by hand and i did some port work to the heads and took them to the machine shop for a quick 3 angle valve job. 50 bucks. reused every thing except springs.
- z28 springs 20.00 bucks
-steel shim head gaskets 20 buck
-edelbrock performer intake 50 bucks used
-already had a 750 holley carb sitting on the motor.........no cost there.
-chrome crap he wanted 50 bucks on tin and open filter kit.
-used headers 25 bucks (we used hack saw and what not for the exhaust to fit on the truck now with headers and took the truck down to the muffler shop and they welded on the collectors 15.00 bucks)
-reused stock rocker arms and push rods all the belts and pulleys and what not.


the 350 engine had right at 9.0 to 1 compression and i fine tuned it recurve the dist. and set carb and rejetted. this truck did not have a stall......it was a 1800 rpm stock brake stall.......the th350 tranny had a shift kit already......and the rear gears was 3.08 and open.......for what it was it was fun for him to drive.....he shifted at 6500 rpms at the track and the truck ran consistent 15.80's in the heat of the day. and it had more then enough low end to roast that rear tire from a stop light.

parts and everything was right around the 600 dollar mark and i took 200 for my time.....he help alot so it made my job easier and i was helping a friend as well.......
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the advice so far guys.

dirtydawg, there's no chance of giving this truck up. It was originally a long-wheel base pickup that just got shortened to a short-wheel base. Go figure.

ddennis, thanks for the combo. Sounds like you know how to build on a budget!

Pat, as I said, I haven't seen the core yet. We are supposed to get together in the next week or so. However, I do know it's an early 90's motor. So, no carb and I guess no HEI that I can really use.

GRN69CHV is probably right. Maybe I should back down one notch and hope that it's enough for the guy. I guess if he REALLY wanted some power he would fork out the cash for it.
Image


I wish I could go the Vortec 383 route, Pat. I think it would be a nice, affordable, strong running street motor. I guess we'll see. I'll know more after seeing the core and deciding what's reusable. Thanks again.
 
Save
you need torke to move a heavy truck as was stated so pat hit the nail on the head.go with the 383 i know he will be happy .time you have his crank turned you will only have about 150 in the new crank.check flatlander or midwest motorsports or compitition producks for rods already resized and with good bolts as cheap as you can do your own. a flat top 383 with cast or hipotec flat top pistons with 76 cc heads will run pretty good and on pump gas.check with your machine shop alot of time they can get a returned gm 383 crank for about a 150 or so.
 
Save
This is going to be long, but it does hit close to home for me...

I have a '78 chevy 1/2 ton that also has a th350/3.08 rear gear. The 1st setup I built for this thing was a .030 over 2 bolt 350. Decks was cut .008 for flatness. I reused the original '77 station wagon crank (turned 10/10...$45 at the time) and resized the stock rods (and added heavy duty pioneer rod bolts...about $100). I used a cheap (but good quality) federal mogul cast flat top rebuild kit (about $330 with pistons, cast rings, cam, lifters, timing set, gaskets, oil pump, and freeze plugs). With the slight decking, the pistons ended up .040 in the hole...bad for compression. I had the '77 station wagon 882 heads surfaced and a 3 angle valve job, and I did some light bowl work and added some cheap elgin Z-28 springs (total cost about $175). I added a crane energizer 266 cam (210@.050, .440 lift...$100 for cam and lifters), a weaind 8004 intake ($90 or so new), 600 edelbrock carb (stock truck q-jet was junk), a 14x3" summit K&N type filter, cheap 1 5/8" flowtech headers (fit great and cost about $89 at the time), and had dual 2 1/4" exhaust with flowtech terminators added. It would leave about 30' of rubber from both 235/70-15's. I later added a pair of 275/60-15's out back, and it run 16.0's @ 87-88 mph. It also got 15.5mpg on the highway at a 65mpg average speed, and I towed my 21' camper with it everywhere. Later, I added a set of vortec heads (not as cheap a swap as you might think...you need centerbolt valve covers, a vortec pattern intake, and guided rockers), an XE268 cam and kit, a performer rpm vortec intake, and a 2000 stall B&M holeshot convertor. It had just a bit of rumpity rump at idle, and ran 15.20's @ 97 mph. It was really too much cam for the 3.08's in a 4500 pound truck, but it still spanked the original setup and still got over 14mpg on the highway, and I still pulled the camper with it all the time. I started messing with jetting, timing, and advance curves trying to squeek this thing into the 14's but never did. I added a 750 edelbrock carb and it ran even harder on the top end, but lost power under about 4K rpms, and throttle response was never as sharp even with extensive tuning. Last year, I had made my mind up to swap the cam to get more 2000-4500 rpm power, but 1st I wanted to try a smaller intake and carb. I swapped on a performer (not rpm) vortec intake, and added a 650 holley spread bore q-jet replacement carb. It made a HUGE difference in throttle response. Now it will melt the rear tires at anything under 25mph, gets over 15mpg, and still pulls hard to 6K. I know everybody swears that the rpm intake is the best, but IMO, with the weight and gearing of this truck, the performer/spreadbore was definately the right move. I doubt it will run 14's on street tires because traction is non existant. This setup has 9.4-1 compression, 180psi cranking compression, terrible quench, and it uses 89 octane fuel with no problems at all (even in the summer with the 4000+ pound camper). I also swapped the terminators for hooker aerochambers...best sounding muffler out there, IMO.

For your proposed setup, I would not hesitat to use a set of hypo flat tops. Just watch your deck height as every cast replacement piston and nearly all cheap hypo flat tops end up way down in the hole. Because of the weight and gearing, I always build engines like this with a little less compression than I would use in a car engine (for safety margin). Chances are your 90's core motor has 193 head castings, which are junk. 882's aren't a great head but they are better than 193's. 193's are a swirl port head typically used in 90's TBI applications. They won't make power and are probably cracked anyway. You don't need roller rockers...stamped replacement rockers are plenty fine. If you use vortecs, you can get the neccessary stamped guided rockers from GM for around $50 new. You can also get the centerbolt valve covers, bolts, and gaskets thru gm pretty cheaply. I am using the factory style truck centerbolt vc's, and had the vc's off over a dozen times, and am still using the very same factory style rubber gaskets that have been on there since I did the swap over 5 years ago. If you get the vortecs, the higher lift version is a good choice as they also come with a decent spring. For a cam, look for something in the 214-220@.050 range on the intake duration, preferably on a 108 lsa. It will have just a bit of rump to the idle, but also pull hard down low. A 2000-2200 rpm stall convertor is perfectly streetable but definately makes a difference in the way the truck will launch. Try and get a 4-8 degree larger exhaust lobe. The comp cams 268ah-8 would be perfect IMO with about 9.0 to 9.2 compression (222/226@.050, .464/.464 lift, 108 lsa, install it on a 104 ica). This cam will give a good slightly aggressive sound, and strong performance from 2000-5000+ rpms, perfect for a sport truck that will still get used as a truck on occasion. Don't use a 750 anything carb...its way too much. A 650 spreadbore or q-jet is IMO perfect, but a 600 vac secondary holley or edelbrock is also a good street truck carb. The cheap flowtech full length headers fit great (I have them on my '78 and on my '86 3/4 ton...same part #). If you must use the stock torque convertor, something like an XE262 ground on a 108 would be about the max I would use. The 260AH-8 is what I am using in my low compression 3/4 ton truck motor, and of all the cams I have tried for these applications, it is my favorite. Very sharp throttle response, and strong power from idle to 5K, but if you want an aggressive sound this one is a little small (212/218@.050, 108 lsa).
One last thing. If you don't go with the vortecs, and instead use some regular old gm heads, you can save some $$$'s and just run a regular iron q-jet intake. They are next to impossible to beat for this application, and usually someone will give you one.
With some smart shopping, you can build a reliable, strong running 350 for your budget.
 
Save
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Dayum Travis, I really appreciate that post! Everyone is making good sense here. With that, here comes a small update, so away we go.....

I talked to my friend today and he said that the engine is a '92 model 4-bolt main. Also, he just picked up a 700R-4, so that is the tranny we'll be going with. Should be a bit peppier on take-off. It does make me wonder if it might lug down a bit in OD with 3.08's. I'm still trying to talk him into some better gears.

Also, I got to thinking. I have an old Performer intake. I don't really have any reason to keep it. I've also been considering a MSD distributor for my '70. So, my current GM HEI would fit the bill for him. It has a MSD cap and rotor. It also has an adjustable vacuum advance canister. How much do you think a Performer intake and upgraded GM HEI is worth? I was thinking I might take $175 for them.

So, he would have an intake and distributor that would work fine for his combo. That might save him some bucks and I would get rid of some stuff. CRAP, I just realized that would nix the Vortec head idea. I may have to rethink that part of it. Any other good heads in the Vortec price range?

I'm going to start checking out Ebay and see what stuff I can get at a good price. Thanks for the ideas guys!
 
Save
Wouldn't 64cc Dart IE or World SPII's end up in that price range if you deduct the cost of manifold/valve covers/spring upgrade/special rockers/etc from the vortec swap cost?

Even the World S/R Torquers would probably do better than the stock TBI heads, the 67cc would be kinda like a double-hump upgrade without hte hassle of valvejobs/surfacing/rebuild/etc.

I think the Iron Eagles and SPIIs would end up in the same price range as spring-upgrade Vortecs once its all said and done. (And you could also use that Perf intake with say Dart 180cc Iron Eagles or the World 165cc S/R heads, etc.)
 
Save
If he wants 3.08 gears I advise a 700r4, once you get the TV cable set up properly they're great, esp with a stage 2 transgo shift kit!

From a roll of anything under 30 I can slam passengers heads into the seat and start rolling the tires by giving enough throttle for a kickdown.

This is with 3.08 posi

My combo cost my us about $800

355
Hyper pistons flat top 4 valve
882 heads ported
comp 268 cam (.454/.454)
edelbrock performer intake
Holley 650 spreadbore
balanced
high volume oil pump

It's more than plenty to move the Chevelle, lots of torque from 2100 or so up...
 
Save
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Thunderstruck507 (name?), I'm well aware of the 700R-4. I went with one for my '70. I'm really happy with it. When I swapped to it and a 3500 stall...that made the biggest difference in my car that I've experienced. Reeeally fun when you mash it in 1st. Of course my 3.91's don't hurt either. :D

Ok, update time. My friend took his new 700R-4/4L60 tranny to be rebuilt and beefed up, so that's one more obstacle down. He's going to keep the stock stall, so I'm going to work around that in regards to the cam selection.

Yippee! I've talked him into going with Vortec heads. There is a good late-model yard not far from us, so I'm going to call over there and see how much cores are going for. I put a post in "Engines" regarding the core stuff, but if anyone has any input on model years and casting #'s to look for (along with pricing), please chip in here. Not sure if the higher lift upgrade from Scoggin-Dickey, etc. would fit in the budget (or even needed at all). What is the lift limitation in stock form, btw?

Also, we agreed that if his 350 crank only needs polishing, we'll just do that. If it needs turned or is bad, we're going 383. He kinda hinted that we could go a smiiiidge over budget, but just not crazy with it. So, that's a little bonus. I'm still going to try to keep it at $1750, just to see if I can.

I've looked at Lunati and Crane cams to start. This is what I have so far:

Lunati hydraulic: 1500-5500 powerband

268* adv. dur.
218* @ .050
.457 lift
110 LSA w/ 106 ICL

"Good idle. Excellent street cam with 3.40 gear & stock converter."

I'm kinda leaning toward this one, even tho he's a smidge undergeared, but I'm still working on him to step up to something like a 3.55 or so.

Crane Energizer: Powerband of 2000-5000

272* adv. dur.
216* @ .050
.454 lift
110 LSA

8.75-10:1 CR

For some reason I can't get on the Comp Cams website. Any other cam companies or grinds that you guys think I should look at?
 
Save
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Ok, I just won us a Holley 650 off of Ebay. It's a squarebore, vacuum secondary with an electric choke. Looks like it's good to go for only $83.00 to my door. I'm going to check it over and hope that it only needs tuned, as it was advertised as being rebuilt and then sat on a shelf for only a month. Hmmm.

My friend is sending the check for the carb. Gosh, this is kind of fun putting a combo together that I ain't payin' for. :D
 
Save
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.