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Tiger Joe

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I haven't really posted much, because truthfully my 496 was running fine, so I didn't need help with anything!

Well a few months back I decided to swap a tri power setup onto my 496. Finally got everything buttoned up 2 weeks ago between house projects, but am having some issues.

my setup:

3 brand new holleys. all based off the 2300, center is 4055 and outers are 3659s. this is the new repop of the 1968 427/435 carbs from the vette. I did add an AED metering block to the center carb, and I have AED jet plates for the end carbs if I need to rejet them.

MSD ignition- pro billet distributor (no vacuum advance) with 6AL box. currently set at 20 degrees base timing with 18 advance.

using innovative Wideband o2 for tuning.

here is my issue: every part of the carb setup seems to function as it should EXCEPT the idle.

AFR ratios from last night short drive:

idle- around 14 (bounces from 13.7ish to about 14.5)
part throttle accel- between 12.5 and 13
WOT- between 11.5 and 12 but need to do more driving before changing.

the carbs still have the original divorced choke setup, which according to documentation originally had a fast idle of 2000 rpms.

right now if I jump in the truck pump the gas to set choke, it will start and idle around 750 rpms. once warm I can hit the gas knock it off fast idle down to regular idle around 650.

idle AFR is around 14. mixture screws about 1- 1 1/8 turns out. I drilled 2 3/32 holes in the center carb butterflies. originally had transfer slot set a .020, had to bump throttle 1/2 turn to get idle up.

I should note- I have NO adjustment on the outer carbs idle circuits. it is fixed and not adjustable.

to me, it seems like I need to bring my rpms up, but also need to back down my transfer slot. my question- how to accomplish this? Do i need to make larger holes in the primaries to let more air in? Would swapping in a distributor with a vacuum advance help to add more timing at idle, thus increasing rpms?
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
also I should note- when i had the setup on the truck without drilling holes in the primaries, I had NO fast idle, the truck would just chug and the rpms would not increase.

So it seems the holes did have a positive effect, I just get leery because thats something not easily reversible.
 
Are you trying to bring cold idle RPM up?--if so, you have to bend the tang on the fast idle lever that engages the plastic fast idle cam.

If you bump the warm idle speed up another ~1/2 turn (exposing more transfer slot), does this cause off-idle driveability issues or diminish idle mixture screw function?

Vacuum advance will bring idle rpm up.

BTW, if you do go too far on the butterfly holes, the throttle blades are readily available (#107) and are easy to change.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Choke is adjusted properly and is catching the "fattest" tab which should give me the highest idle.

I just tried a cold restart. Truck idles just under 1,000 according to dash tach. I believe the original vette spec was a 900 cold idle 2,000 fast idle. So I should still see a jump up to 1,500 or so.

Is there a minimum vacuum I need for a vacuum advance to function properly? My cam only makes 8 in at idle. I'm worried that's not enough vacuum to give me the additional advance.

What I think I need to do is reduce my transfer slot exposeure but also maintain currently cold idle speed.

Here is my logic:
Since the choke cam holds open the throttle blades, by cranking my idle screw in more I'm reducing the travel between idle and the fast notch on the cam. Therefore this is going to reduce the increase in rpm when the cam is activated. If I could maintain a warm idle of say 650 but be able to close my butterflies that additional half turn, that would give me a larger jump in idle when it catches the cam.
 
idle- around 14 (bounces from 13.7ish to about 14.5)
part throttle accel- between 12.5 and 13
WOT- between 11.5 and 12

Idle should be richest AFR setting...richen it up a little and see what happens. I know that "sounds backwards"...

3x2 is a NEAT setup; had one on a 454 years ago and it ran great. I know a single four is supposed to make more power, but 3x2 is great "eye candy"...

Bob
 
Choke is adjusted properly and is catching the "fattest" tab which should give me the highest idle.

I just tried a cold restart. Truck idles just under 1,000 according to dash tach. I believe the original vette spec was a 900 cold idle 2,000 fast idle. So I should still see a jump up to 1,500 or so.

Is there a minimum vacuum I need for a vacuum advance to function properly? My cam only makes 8 in at idle. I'm worried that's not enough vacuum to give me the additional advance.

What I think I need to do is reduce my transfer slot exposeure but also maintain currently cold idle speed.

Here is my logic:
Since the choke cam holds open the throttle blades, by cranking my idle screw in more I'm reducing the travel between idle and the fast notch on the cam. Therefore this is going to reduce the increase in rpm when the cam is activated. If I could maintain a warm idle of say 650 but be able to close my butterflies that additional half turn, that would give me a larger jump in idle when it catches the cam.
The choke lever should be completely disengaged from the fast idle cam once the engine is warmed up. Again, you need to stick a small flat blade screwdriver in the slot on the fast idle lever and bend the tang towards the front of the car which will open the primary blades increasing cold idle RPM. The pic below is of a 4150 style carb but the parts & process is the same:

Image
 
dont use the afr guage to set idle. with the engine completely warmed up and off the fast idle cam adjust the idle speed and mixture with a tach or vacuum gauge. use the guage as a reference. i usually lean the idle mixture up slightly from best idle. highest rpm or vacuum. some of those carbs only idled of the center carb but i think your set up has an idle circuit on all 3 carbs. i would start with all 3 idle speed screws backed out untill the throttle blades were seated and turned in half a turn and the mixture screws seated and back out 1 turn. adjust all the idle screws same to get your idle speed then go back and set your idle mixture screws for highest rpm. reset your idle speed. you may have to do some work to get the transfer slot length right. obviously the center carb is most important on this. after everything is right go back and set your choke and fast idle linkage and speed adjustments
 
Corvette end 3X2 carbs do not have adjustable idle circuits nor curb idle adjustment provisions.

Chrysler end 3X2 carbs have an adjustable idle circuit but no provisions to adjust curb idle speed.

Ford 3X2 end carbs have provisions for idle mixture and curb idle speed.

Hope that helps.
 
With only 8" of idle vacuum, you DEFINITELY need vac adv at idle. Engine may need anywhere from 30-50* for best idle. The extra timing will fix many of your problems:
- increase idle rpm
- increase vacuum
- reduce transfer slot opening


You need the Crane adj vac unit. If your dist does not take the Crane unit, get a dist that does. Instal the Crane with Allen Key adjusted all the way CW [ minimum vacuum position ].
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Vintage- my choke is functioning 100% as it should. I just don't have the rpm I should

Fast idle it catches the fattest cam

Warm idle cam is not engaged.


I did some googling and it appears I can get the MSD pro billet part number 8361 and put the crane adjustable unit on it. Just want to make sure vacuum will help before I drop $300
 
I think asking a bbc to have an idle speed of 650 is stretching reality if you are only showing 8 inches of vacuum at idle you must a a healthy cam . Just saying that getting a stock idle speed may be the wrong goal try for highest idle while making sure the throttle is in the transfer slot as this is critical. Meaning as you know throttle as closed as possible even with vac advance the closed throttle is most important. Then you can use the extra advance a. Bigger hole in throttle to get a nice 750-800 rpm which in my opinion will be doable and more realisti good luck
 
Tuning I did on my 3x2, 400 hp 427 version of my '69 Vette NHRA Stocker in the early 80's. I started with 3 brand new Holley carbs. Richened the center carb to 72 jets and leaned the end carb metering plates (can't remember what number), plus removed the end carbs vacuum opening springs entirely. You have to have a strong return spring and be sure the return linkage is is in place or the end carbs will stick wide open (not good) after letting off WOT. That spring removal worked good with a loose converter, 4.56 rear gears, and slicks but probably would not work well with a street setup. I think I fixed the choke fully open t all times.
 
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