Hey, Guys I building a 396 ci BBC . I was wondering how to check the the camshaft end play with a roller cam . What type of timing cover to use , it will be going in a 67 chevelle so it will be a short water pump . What type gear set , type of thrust bearing and cam button . Thank you in advance for any help !:smile2:
Roller camshaft end play
samsonace
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Hey, Guys I building a 396 ci BBC . I was wondering how to check the the camshaft end play with a roller cam . What type of timing cover to use , it will be going in a 67 chevelle so it will be a short water pump . What type gear set , type of thrust bearing and cam button . Thank you in advance for any help !:smile2:
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I have not done this on a big block but I will this time. On my small block the 1st time out the car went really well then slowed down for no apparent reason I looked and found the cam button pushed the cam forward so here is what I did. I took a piece of angle iron and welded a solid washer on it, then I drilled holes on both sides to match the timing cover. I used threaded rod and nuts on either side to adjust it so when I put pressure on the cover the with my dial indicator set the cam so it only moved .005, it worked perfect so I used it on all the cams I ran in that engine. I will do the same thing on mu big block although the cover is stronger on the big inch engines. I guess you can always buy a fancy cover for like $200 but I like to put my money in other areas of the car. Since you have a short water pump it even easier, just stuff a feeler gauge until you get the cam to go fore and aft .005 then find a washer and epoxy it to the rear cover of the water pump, huh may have to try that if I use the shorter pump.
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Have you bought the cam?
Maybe buy and use a gen6 step nose cam.
Is block drilled an tapped in the front for a retaining plate? If not and not machined yet maybe have the macineshop drill and tap for one. Then you dont need a button a retaining plate hold the camplay like on the last picture.
Whats the plan? Just a nice street cruiser the ho 454/502 or zz502 cam will fit nice. With matching timing set
If you already bought parts or want the retro style with button or block is not drilled and tapped and you dont want to drill and tap. I have used cheap cast alu covers and comp nylon button with short pump. Check endplay at the back removing camplug and using dial indicator.
Dial indicator set up to check play
Maybe buy and use a gen6 step nose cam.
Is block drilled an tapped in the front for a retaining plate? If not and not machined yet maybe have the macineshop drill and tap for one. Then you dont need a button a retaining plate hold the camplay like on the last picture.
Whats the plan? Just a nice street cruiser the ho 454/502 or zz502 cam will fit nice. With matching timing set
If you already bought parts or want the retro style with button or block is not drilled and tapped and you dont want to drill and tap. I have used cheap cast alu covers and comp nylon button with short pump. Check endplay at the back removing camplug and using dial indicator.
Dial indicator set up to check play
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Hi John, if you have the option of using the stepped-nose (MK-VI) cam by all means take advantage of using this setup. It will make your life much easier and require almost no "special" tools to assemble.
Just about all our "streeters" and "street/strip" builds no longer get cam buttons. We stopped using them a few years back.
Around the same time we began replacing all our roller cam inventory and our timing sets over to the stepped-nose setup, we now even do the early SBC's on the same platform, no cam buttons!
Our high-end builds usually get belt-drives so no buttons there either!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. With respect to the photo above showing the mounted plate, I would really recommend using the OEM mounting screws instead of that type bolt pictured. Too many times we've seen the rear side of the cam gear make contact with those larger bolt heads. If not at least check it during the mock-up period?
Just about all our "streeters" and "street/strip" builds no longer get cam buttons. We stopped using them a few years back.
Around the same time we began replacing all our roller cam inventory and our timing sets over to the stepped-nose setup, we now even do the early SBC's on the same platform, no cam buttons!
Our high-end builds usually get belt-drives so no buttons there either!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. With respect to the photo above showing the mounted plate, I would really recommend using the OEM mounting screws instead of that type bolt pictured. Too many times we've seen the rear side of the cam gear make contact with those larger bolt heads. If not at least check it during the mock-up period?
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They are the screws included with gm timing set 12371053 the heads are low profile probably used 10 sets with no problems but those button head screws are pictured if I check the part nr on summit. Maybe they have changed or the picture is generic?
Hi Marcus, couldn't edit the post any longer, rules??
(Add) Pay attention to Tom below here, he's "dead-on"!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. Here's G.M. the part number for the OEM screws, 14093637, we have a couple hundred on the shelf. We supply them in the tooling kits to do the SBC early block mod for the stepped-nose setup! This is why we have so many on hand.
use the thrust plate setup if at all possible. all BBCs have the bosses, some are drilled and tapped some are not. those that are not can be. This is vastly superior to any button deal.
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I am also using a roller for the first time on my 454. CC sold me a thrust bearing (#3110TB) and a cam button (#205) to go along with their cam. After reading this thread I called them about using a thrust plate instead but they said they didn't have a part number for my application.
They recommended a wear plate (#203) to be used with the thrust bearing I already bought. Wear plate going against the block and then the thrust bearing going on next. The cam button wouldn't be used. With this setup CC said there was no need to check end play.
Does all of this sound right?
Thanks.
They recommended a wear plate (#203) to be used with the thrust bearing I already bought. Wear plate going against the block and then the thrust bearing going on next. The cam button wouldn't be used. With this setup CC said there was no need to check end play.
Does all of this sound right?
Thanks.
Hi Chris, cant use that shim with a "conventional;" timing set without machining either the front of the block (.030") or the backside of the cam gear, same amount (.030").
Follow along up here on some of these posts about cam thrust surfaces and if possible tell Comp you want to change to the stepped-nose setup if it's not too late! You'll never regret it, no end-play, no buttons, no shims!
That 205 button isn't going to work either unless you have the OEM "tin" cover, aluminum covers generally use the 200 or 202?
About 99% of our BBC roller builds no longer get cam buttons, the thrust plate setup is not only easier, but a lot faster on ass'y!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. If you stay the course with the conventional MKIV cam snout just order the timing set for it with either the shim (already installed on the gear) or the Torrington equipped one, no machining for either with the correct numbers! Not sure Comp has either, we don't use Comp's timing sets generally.
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If you can change it for a gen 6 cam no big deal. I used the #205 nylon button several times with different covers just trim the lenght with a belt sander. Pretty easy to set the end play and a nylon button with alu cover will live for a very long time.
Thx for the advice. I'll call CC tomorrow to see if I can get a stepped-nose cam in the size I am using. That sure sounds like an easier option.
I had already asked them about a timing set with the built-in Torrington bearing and they don't offer it.
Chris
I had already asked them about a timing set with the built-in Torrington bearing and they don't offer it.
Chris
Good news, CC sells the same cam I have in a step nose. Bad news is the matching timing set costs 5 times as much as the set I bought and they don't have the retaining plate (which is surprising). If I return the cam, timing chain, thrust bearing and button then purchase the new cam and chain it will only be a total of $150 more. Probably worth it to avoid checking the end play and messing with the thrust bearing/button.
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Depending on camspec this timing set might work it comes in zz502’s even think gm use it in the 572-620 hp hyd roller engine, its cheap and comes with plate and bolts.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12371053/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12371053/
I would recommend getting the MKVI Tru-roller with the Torrington, I would never consider using a "single" thick roller set!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. If you can't locate the correct one just contact me, we keep at least 20 sets on hand now that we've stopped using the cam buttons. They are at or about 100.00 and they are both "steel-billet" gears, cam and crank!
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Chris
No offense meant but there are a multitude of suppliers I feel you would be better served on this than Comp
They are giving you erroneous information
It appears you are talking to a salesperson that does not have a clue what is available, how this is actually done & is more concerned with selling you Comp parts when there may be something else that will serve you better
Anyone who tells you you do not need to check end play using the button set-up is someone I would highly recommend you say "thank you" too & hang up the phone.
Anyway, listen to what Gary is telling you there are a number of double roller sets with a Torrington that are a direct fit for this
I assume Gary has the correct plate & button head bolts & if not I have them in bulk too.
I think you are making this too hard you need to stop listening to people that haven't done this & go with a person giving you the correct info
No offense taken Mike. I think you're right. What was supposed to be fun has turned into a PITA. If I could go back 6 months I would probably do it differently.
I chose Comp 30 years ago for the solid cam I was using. When I decided to go hyd roller this time I called them first but did call other companies too. When I decided to use them again, I first bought the matching valve springs back in December so the machine shop could get to work on the heads. Once the heads were done I sorta felt locked into using their cam. This is my first time using a hyd roller so the thrust plate, thrust bearing, cam button.....installation is all new to me. That's why I got excited reading this thread about using a step nose cam and retaining plate and not messing with the other setup.
So as of today, I have a step nose cam coming along with a CC double roller chain (with thrust bearing included). The second guy I talked to came up with a part number (#7101). I also have the retaining plate on the way. I was told all of this will fit under a stock timing chain cover.
Thx everyone for the help.
I chose Comp 30 years ago for the solid cam I was using. When I decided to go hyd roller this time I called them first but did call other companies too. When I decided to use them again, I first bought the matching valve springs back in December so the machine shop could get to work on the heads. Once the heads were done I sorta felt locked into using their cam. This is my first time using a hyd roller so the thrust plate, thrust bearing, cam button.....installation is all new to me. That's why I got excited reading this thread about using a step nose cam and retaining plate and not messing with the other setup.
So as of today, I have a step nose cam coming along with a CC double roller chain (with thrust bearing included). The second guy I talked to came up with a part number (#7101). I also have the retaining plate on the way. I was told all of this will fit under a stock timing chain cover.
Thx everyone for the help.
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