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Idea For New Engine Build-Up In PHR

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Johnny Hunkins

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Tell me what you guys think of this engine build-up story for Popular Hot Rodding:

600+HP for under $4,500

Buy a salvage late-model Mark VI 454 big-block truck motor, reuse the oil pan, oil pump, crank, rods, & pistons. Hone the block (no overbore), zero-deck the block, add new rings and bearings.

Put some new iron heads on (either Dart Iron Eagle or Merlin III)
mill the heads to arrive at pump-gas friendly 10.5:1 compression
Stick in a hydraulic roller cam
low-cost HEI with a good module

Still figuring out the heads, intake and carb

What are your thoughts on parts selection and budget? Is this something you'd like to see? Is the power goal do-able for the money? I wanted to keep it affordable and real. The idea is to drive it to the track, crank off some 11s, and drive it home. This will probably be going into a '68 Chevelle I'm picking up soon for a magazine project car. I'll probably give some weight to what you guys say--especially guys with serious big-block experience.
 
#3 ·
I'm not sure how much horse power you will get out of that, but to get it in the 11's and still drive it down the road, probably need 456's, 600horse won't do it with 373 gears, I would think from the experience we had with my sons 70 chevelle.

Rob
 
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#4 ·
Sounds a little tired to me have read your mag and most of the others a long time.
Take that same motor and a complete EFI setup along with the tank pump and electronic overdrive and you would have me reading it.
Oh yeah now you can run those 4.56's and drive home.
 
#6 ·
Sounds like a great "real world" budget build. You'll probably have to change oil pans to fit a Chevelle frame though. You can get a Milodon stock type pan for cheap from Jegs, Summit, etc. I'd get the stock rods freshened with ARP bolts too. I'd like to see power numbers with your setup and freshened stock large oval port heads first (stock valve sizes). Then maybe add the Darts later as a comparison. That would probably require aftermarket pistons and open chamber stock heads, so the CR would be close to the same after swapping heads. I think you'll have to use aftermarket pistons anyway to get 10.5 CR with aftermarket heads (or stock ones '71 or later). Use a Performer RPM intake with Holley 750 vac sec carb.
 
#7 ·
First thing you have to do is get one that'll clean up with a hone and run standard pistons and that doesn't happen very often. For an additional grand, you could have rods resized with ARP bolts, bore, hone and deck the block and get some Speed Pro hypereutectic pistons, a few $ more for some forged slugs. Do a little clean-up work in the bowls and short turns on the ports but leave the stock size valves in. I've torn down Gen 6's with 3 different heads: L-29 Vortecs, new version of peanuts and a semi-closed chamber setup like the 215, 290 and 063 Mark IV heads. Most of the time the hydraulic roller lifters are fine, get a 454HO hydraulic roller take-out and you'd be ready to go. If it were me, I'd sell the cast crank and get a 4.25", either 1-piece rear or use an adapter, get some 6.385 rods and SRP pistons and you'd have one tough engine that would last and make great hp for a couple grand over the cost of the core.
The main thing they had going is that they managed to find a block that cleaned at standard and they got to run their pistons with nothing but a hone and new rings. You may tear down 20 blocks before you get that lucky!
 
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#8 ·
how about the pro comp or pro thunder aluminum bbc heads that sell on ebay? i'd like to see a budget build that uses these heads. they are very reasonable price wise, and you could throw the mentioned compression at it without detonation worries. seems to me you could build for less than 4,500.00 with new pistons, oil pump,timing chain, how about a mild solid roller cam,or even a solid flat tappet to cut costs. do the markVI engines use the better pm rods like the newer sbc's ? why copy another mag ? i think the guys would agree that we're tired of reading the same build in a different mag. why not out do them by making more power for less or the same with less ? my .02
 
#9 ·
I don't care to see 'em do a build-up using cheap Chinese knock-off parts cast with counterfeit technology, thank you very much. Maybe try some Brodix RR ovals, some GMPP/Edelbrock "rovals", or even RHS's newly redesigned Pro Topline heads but stick with supporting American manufacturers/vendors. Not only does using/advocating knock-offs give them credibility and cheap advertising, it hurts the companies here in the U.S. that spend money developing and testing the very technology that's been copied. I encourage anybody that doubts the quality of the Pro Comp stuff to buy a set and compare 'em side-by-side to a set of any of the ones I've named. Measure and sonic check all of 'em and you'll find out why the Pro Comps weigh 5 - 7 lbs less apiece. Making 'em thinner and lighter saves material and makes 'em cheaper to ship, it has nothing to do with weight reduction for the sake of speed. I wouldn't run 'em on my ex-wife's car and I can't stand the sight of that wench!
Besides, the magazines aren't gonna do a build-up using parts sold by folks that don't advertise or otherwise support the mags/publishers in the long term. That's why so much Comp Cams and Edelbrock stuff finds it's way onto their builds.
 
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#10 ·
rubadub said:
I'm not sure how much horse power you will get out of that, but to get it in the 11's and still drive it down the road, probably need 456's, 600horse won't do it with 373 gears, I would think from the experience we had with my sons 70 chevelle.

Rob
Click to expand...
Hmmm...a 3600 pound car and HP of 600 should do 10's to low 11 seconds and MPH of 126.58 MPH. Just my opinion...with proper tuning and 3.73 rear.
 
#11 ·
Johnny,

11.+ to 1 CR.!!

Then do it so that it runs on 87 octane gasoline by using the latest tech concerning small chamber heads, true flat-top pistons, long rods, etc., etc....

I mentioned this type of build-up before to you a while back.

Almost forgot, Mr. Fueling's BB aluminum truck TORQUE heads too!!

pdq67

Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
 
#12 ·
Your engine sounds like mine. I built mine for under $3000 with the help of www.racingjunk.com where I bought the low mileage engine and the cylinder heads. I have a '97 Vortec 454 with an untouched shortblock with a Lunati hyd roller cam and some Edelbrock heads that have been milled to 95cc's to get 9.3:1 I have the MPH to run 11's if I could get my S-10 Blazer to hook and my torque converters to hold up. I don't think I am make 600hp yet, probably around 520.

It will be hard to make any compression with a flat top. My next step will put me at about $4000 and hopefully around 600hp. I plan on keeping the stock crank and rods and get some domed pistons to get the CR up. Then a set of Brodix RaceRite oval ports with the CNC chamber. Then an oval port RPM AirGap should get me pretty close. With the tiny 231/239 @ .050 .600/.600 lift hyd roller it will be a real torque monster.
 
#13 ·
hell lets put ovals on every big block out there. i can't understand why they even made a rect port head.and they might as well use the same parts that the suppliers give away to get thier product out there. i know the heads i mentioned are not american made. just thought it would be interesting to see what power they would make. but lets keep it boring, and use the same stuff. they will probably "pick up" a good 454 to do this for 250.00 anyway.comp hyd roller cam, vics intake,valve covers and heads , holley carb, etc. etc. blah blah blah. then shove it in a driver quality chevelle with a built th 400, 12 bolt posi and a set of welds they found for 1,200.00. don't be so hard on your ex wench maybe you should ask her some advice on heads.
 
#14 ·
I struggle with budget builds because not all of us stumble onto the good deals. PHR featured a high ten sec Nova this month for less than 10K, painted even and it is a very nice car. But....a lot was left out, and unless a guy keeps track of every penny, the budget isn't real.

As far as oval ports, whatever. I'm sure I could add some ported ovals to my Nova and go back to the mid tens.

Here is what a buddy did, on a budget to get into the 10.40's.
Found a dually that the owner had installed a 450 hp 502 in. Bought the truck for 2500. Replaced the 502 with a 454 (that he got from another dually), sold the truck for 2500. The 502 was then free.

Replaced the heads with AFR 305 CNC chamber heads. (2400) Bought a Comp solid street roller setup. (700). Bought a manifold and carb from me. (700) He had all the rest of the parts laying around.

So for less than 4000, he has at least 650 hp and is going 10.40's in his Chevelle. (The Chevelle was one of about 10 he owns and was a heap but was also done on a budget)

BTW....a 454 with ovals and a hydro roller will not likely break 600 hp.

Clicking off 11's is doable with only 550 hp...in fact my Nova was in the 10's with 560hp.

Click off some mid tens, and we will be impressed.

BTW...same Chevelle with a 150 shot went 9.96@136 using the juice in 2nd and 3rg gear only.

I do like PHR btw.....I need to subscribe. I am tired of CC and HR

Ron
 
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#16 ·
There will always be a significant difference between one mans budget build and that of another. It's all about the circles one frequents and the time frame required to collect the necessary parts. To their advantage, the magazine should benefit from their inherent connections, however, operate within a predetermined deadline.

My previous 439 was an evolutionary build, every so many years getting freshened up with moderate upgrades. Ultimately running 11.557 @ 119 with less than optimal traction and considerably less than 550hp (definitely over 500hp though). This done with a th400 / 10" and 4.10 posi.
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
I think you should try a budget buildup being realistic. Not too often do we find big blocks in junk yards around here. If you can thats great! I think going with a stock block a chineese 4 1/4" crank. some chineese rods, and SRP pistons, top it off with some chineese heads and a chineese intake, find somone to make you a chineese carb and chineese headers, after the build grab some take out and hang out with General Tso and watch a kung fu movie ...all for the sake of ticking off MyBoTy!!!! Im J/K, take it easy man!!! Its allways fun to see budget buildups but i never take them seriously because it allways seems like theres a "swap meet carb" or some "great used aftermarket heads" that you got for a rediculous price that i never seem to find. I like to see retail prices that everyone can count on not the great deal we hardly ever stumble on.
 
#19 ·
No sweat, I have actually used Scat and Eagle stroker cranks in a couple of budget low hp builds. Compare those to CAT though and the cheap copy comes shining thru. Those heads just hit a nerve with me after I'd had the time to compare 'em on a bench to Brodix, Dart and Pro Topline. They may be fine, I sure ain't gonna run 'em, though.
I hang out at a really good high performance shop and have been the beneficiary of a lot of guys moving to bigger engines and selling their used blocks, cranks, etc. This includes Dart and Bowtie blocks, Lunati cranks and rods, etc. When it comes to budget, most of you guys would cry if you saw how much I'll have in my 565 build that'll be finished in December. You just think that the budget stuff the rags build is low-ball.
If I didn't have an ex, I wouldn't have the sweetheart I'm with now, so I guess it's a good thing she fired me from my husband job many years ago :D
 
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#20 ·
you keep bringing her up man. come on you can tell us. she's chinese isn't she? it's all right, we've probably all had the yellow fever at some point. ha ha. it sounds like you have come out on top when buying your used stuff. i always thought that the guys at the shop were getting some good deals on parts when someone is trying to cover the costs of a new better mill. and i'll have to admit that my buying used stuff ONLINE hasn't been the best . most of the time if it's to good to be true then there's something wrong with it. my only neg feedbackon ebay came from a a** hole that sold me a screwed up set of dimple rods( two different kind of bolts, and three of them had dowels in the caps) gave him bad feedback after trying to get a refund with no luck. then i get a bad feedback for trying to defraud him. so from there it was all new stuff for my build.
 
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