[ProStreet383]

I am at wits end here and not sure what else to try. It was doing this with the old engine combo and now the new combo. Today was the first test drive. Everything went flawless except for the temp not wanting to stay around 180 to 190. It was 60 degrees today. It hung around 180 for about 5 minutes of cruising then slowly went to 190 then slowly to 200. When I got back to the house it was around 205 and I let it sit and run and it creeped up to 215. I checked the fans and they were running but they were not ramped all the way up like I was expecting to find.

I am starting to wonder if this thing is giving some kind of false reading. I need to get a thermal gun and get some actual readings. Here is every last detail about the cooling system. If anybody see's anything that catches your eye let me know! Maybe I need to step down to a 160 and set the controller to come on at 170 so by the time it gets to 190 to 200 it will be running full blast.

Ready rad radiator that a lot of people on nastyz28.com use. One guy is in las vegas with a 496 powered camaro that runs high 9's and he said this same radiator keeps his engine nice and cool.

Spal's baddest of the bad twin fan setup. Over 3000 REAL cfm, fully shrouded and it has rubber flappers that open up at cruise speed to allow proper airflow while cruising so it wont dam up. This thing will suck a small child through the radiator. http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.as...&item=30102130

Delta current control FK-85 fan controller. I lowered the "on" temp to 190 (was 200 and they claim it comes set from the factory to work with a 180 thermostat). It ramps up speed as it needs it but even at 215 it is not ramped up to full speed. Put the probe in hot water and it will go to full speed but not when the probe is in the radiator? http://www.dccontrol.com/constant_te...ontrollers.htm

Stewart stage 1 high flow water pump

Timing is all mechanical. 27 initial and all in just before 3000rpm set at 37 degrees total.

Stewart/Robert shaw high flow 180 degree thermostat. It has 3 holes drilled as a bypass and to allow trapped air to escape. I have tested it and it opens right at 180.

Upper and lower hoses are universal hoses with the steel spring in them. They can not collapse.

Cometic head gaskets with modified cooling. Block was drilled to accommodate the modified cooling.

Autometer temp gauge. Tested along side the thermostat and tested right on the money.



I am really starting to think the thermostat is not fully opening causing reduced flow and the slow rise in temps. I am going to go grab a standard stant super stat today for the heck of it and see if that helps any. Stant claims that it is a heavier duty higher flowing thermostat than there regular $4 thermostats.

 

[Blownchevelle68]

I'm guessing something is up with the Delta controller. Have you tried a alternate location for the temp probe?

Edit: Have you double checked the temp setting on the controller? Do you have the temp probe mounted on the left side of cooling fan (as you look at it from engine side)?

 

[ProStreet383]

I'm guessing something is up with the Delta controller. Have you tried a alternate location for the temp probe?

Edit: Have you double checked the temp setting on the controller? Do you have the temp probe mounted on the left side of cooling fan (as you look at it from engine side)?

Thats a good idea. I actually did use hot water in a cup and dipped the probe in and it ramped up to full speed but I didn't do it with the engine hot to see if it would lower the temps. I will give that a try later today. My only thought is the car should stay cool at cruising speeds and not need the fans to kick on but it still creeps up even at 45 to 50mph on a 60 degree day. That is what is making me think the robert shaw thermostat is not opening all the way.

 

[SWHEATON]

I am at wits end here and not sure what else to try. It was doing this with the old engine combo and now the new combo. Today was the first test drive. Everything went flawless except for the temp not wanting to stay around 180 to 190. It was 60 degrees today. It hung around 180 for about 5 minutes of cruising then slowly went to 190 then slowly to 200. When I got back to the house it was around 205 and I let it sit and run and it creeped up to 215. I checked the fans and they were running but they were not ramped all the way up like I was expecting to find.

I am starting to wonder if this thing is giving some kind of false reading. I need to get a thermal gun and get some actual readings. Here is every last detail about the cooling system. If anybody see's anything that catches your eye let me know! Maybe I need to step down to a 160 and set the controller to come on at 170 so by the time it gets to 190 to 200 it will be running full blast.

Ready rad radiator that a lot of people on nastyz28.com use. One guy is in las vegas with a 496 powered camaro that runs high 9's and he said this same radiator keeps his engine nice and cool.

Spal's baddest of the bad twin fan setup. Over 3000 REAL cfm, fully shrouded and it has rubber flappers that open up at cruise speed to allow proper airflow while cruising so it wont dam up. This thing will suck a small child through the radiator. http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.as...&item=30102130

Delta current control FK-85 fan controller. I lowered the "on" temp to 190 (was 200 and they claim it comes set from the factory to work with a 180 thermostat). It ramps up speed as it needs it but even at 215 it is not ramped up to full speed. Put the probe in hot water and it will go to full speed but not when the probe is in the radiator? http://www.dccontrol.com/constant_te...ontrollers.htm

Stewart stage 1 high flow water pump

Timing is all mechanical. 27 initial and all in just before 3000rpm set at 37 degrees total.

Stewart/Robert shaw high flow 180 degree thermostat. It has 3 holes drilled as a bypass and to allow trapped air to escape. I have tested it and it opens right at 180.

Upper and lower hoses are universal hoses with the steel spring in them. They can not collapse.

Cometic head gaskets with modified cooling. Block was drilled to accommodate the modified cooling.

Autometer temp gauge. Tested along side the thermostat and tested right on the money.



I am really starting to think the thermostat is not fully opening causing reduced flow and the slow rise in temps. I am going to go grab a standard stant super stat today for the heck of it and see if that helps any. Stant claims that it is a heavier duty higher flowing thermostat than there regular $4 thermostats.

====================

I had the same issue 1st hand with the newer gen of the hi flow stats mfg out of the usa just like your using not opening fully causing motor to run hotter then it should.

Thats why i dont use them anymore and moved to autozones stainless steel hi flow stat ,try the autozone 15356 stat w-bypass hole drilled to see hot it does.

Myslef and some fellow t/c memebrs have been using those autozone stats for over 3yrs with not one known failure thur far.

If that fixes it great but since i see your running elec fans it may not fully fix the issue either so if thats the case i have a fix for you that works every time in this situation of motor with elec fans running too hot.

I will email that info to you which included many testimonials from your fellow t/c members that also had bbc's running too hot with elec fans that reduced their temp 30 deg on avg when they drank the coolaid and followed my rec to remove the elec fans and install all the items i rec to that significantly reduced thier engine temps every time.

So chk your email to read how elec fan fans perf in all sorts of apps of diff perf lvl's vs what i rec to use to reduced temps 30+ deg every time which is backed up in your t/c members own words.

Let me know what you think after you read the testimonials.

Scott

 

[ProStreet383]

Hey thanks for the email with the info. If I cant get this fully figured out I will go back to the shroud and clutch fan but I would really rather not. I dont trust a fan at 7000+ rpm.

I did figured a few things out. I kept getting air in the system. Every time I would check it would be a little low. Then it dawned on me that the overflow tank was empty so I filled that half way up and now the system is staying full. I replaced the thermostat with a stant superstat (made in the usa and stant claims the superstat is a high flow) and drilled 2 small holes in it. I also found out I had the thermal sensor positioned wrong in the radiator. Brian baskin of DCC wants it in the front of the radiator (engine side) and off to the side of the fans to get it out of the fans air flow so I changed that.

It got to 90 degrees today so I took it out for a test run. Drove about 12 miles doing about 40 to 50 mph at 3,000 to 3,500 rpm. Temp crept up to 198 to 200 and stayed put. When I stopped it actually cooled down to 195 after a minute and was slowly coming down and the fans were only on about 50% power. The problem is they are on non stop because of the cruise temps being higher than the fan turn on temp. I am running a diehard platinum battery (odyssey) and a CS130 alternator with plenty of power.


The fan I have is spals best of the best. The fan shroud is covered in rubber flappers to allow full air flow through the shroud while cruising down the road. When the fans run they suck shut to seal up the shroud. It is sealed up tight against the radiator core and only leaves about 1/2" of core exposed on either side of the radiator. It is a beautiful fit on the radiator. These fans draw a tremendous amount of power like the taurus fan does. That is the tell tale of a quality high flow electric fan.

So now my main cooling issue is at cruise speeds and I know the 4.56 gears are not helping matters. I do have B&M's biggest stacked plate trans cooler mounted about 3" gap in front of the radiator off to the side. Also running an ATI 8" 5000 stall treemaster converter. They built it tight for street use.

I think the biggest problem at this point is the single row 1" tube radiator. It is simply not enough radiator for my engine. What do you guys think? Griffin makes a 2 row with 1.25" tubes that fits my car. That should more than double my cooling capacity.

====================

I had the same issue 1st hand with the newer gen of the hi flow stats mfg out of the usa just like your using not opening fully causing motor to run hotter then it should.

Thats why i dont use them anymore and moved to autozones stainless steel hi flow stat ,try the autozone 15356 stat w-bypass hole drilled to see hot it does.

Myslef and some fellow t/c memebrs have been using those autozone stats for over 3yrs with not one known failure thur far.

If that fixes it great but since i see your running elec fans it may not fully fix the issue either so if thats the case i have a fix for you that works every time in this situation of motor with elec fans running too hot.

I will email that info to you which included many testimonials from your fellow t/c members that also had bbc's running too hot with elec fans that reduced their temp 30 deg on avg when they drank the coolaid and followed my rec to remove the elec fans and install all the items i rec to that significantly reduced thier engine temps every time.

So chk your email to read how elec fan fans perf in all sorts of apps of diff perf lvl's vs what i rec to use to reduced temps 30+ deg every time which is backed up in your t/c members own words.

Let me know what you think after you read the testimonials.

Scott

 

[SWHEATON]

you dont trust a fan at 7000+ rpm?

Well,your in luck,with hd fan clutch it doesnt turn fan for 1 to 1 ratio rpm wise,its approx 75% + - so 7k engine rpm with fan clutch fullt locked would be approx 5,8006 rpm and if motor isnt hot enough to have fan clutch locked up at the time you hammer it the fan speed is considerably less then that.

BTW,GM used that same setup on bbc & sbc motors with solid cams that turned over 6k rpm with no problems at all.

Scott

 

[ProStreet383]

Scott I stopped and picked up a infrared thermometer today to test a few things like temp drop across the radiator, temp probe location etc etc. It is 90 degrees right now. I flushed out probably 90% of the antifreeze. Added anti corrosion that i picked up from napa and the correct non ribbed upper hose. Filled the system up with deionized water (I have a crspotless deionizer and it is awesome!). I did not take it for a drive yet.

The fans come on right at 180. It stays dead on 190 with the fans only running at 50% or less which is perfect. Temp reading at the radiator inlet is 180. Temp at radiator outlet is 160. Twenty degree drop seems pretty good. Intake surface temp where the probe is screwed in is 200. Cylinder head temp on the side of the head is 200+- a couple.


What does this tell us? I am not sure. Do these readings help in any way?

 

[onovakind67]

It got to 90 degrees today so I took it out for a test run. Drove about 12 miles doing about 40 to 50 mph at 3,000 to 3,500 rpm. Temp crept up to 198 to 200 and stayed put. When I stopped it actually cooled down to 195 after a minute and was slowly coming down and the fans were only on about 50% power. The problem is they are on non stop because of the cruise temps being higher than the fan turn on temp. I am running a diehard platinum battery (odyssey) and a CS130 alternator with plenty of power.

At 40-50 mph your fan should have very little effect on the cooling. There should be enough natural flow to cool the small amount of power you are producing.

I think the biggest problem at this point is the single row 1" tube radiator. It is simply not enough radiator for my engine. What do you guys think? Griffin makes a 2 row with 1.25" tubes that fits my car. That should more than double my cooling capacity.

It won't double the cooling capacity. Doubling the number of tubes does increase the surface contact area but it reduces the water velocity and subsequent turbulence.

 

[cv67]

take it youre running a vented cap?

either dont have enough radiator or fan one or the other myself.
hot 383 3 row stock type fresh. Fights temps in warmer weather...
Fine in fall/spring weather

Your comment about at speed not cooling having a similar issue never had it before. wondering if the front plate could be deflecting enough air to make a difference didnt run one yrs ago but nowadays..

 

[Andy's Auto Repair]

Scott Wheaton, ever use Water Wetter?

If you want to drop 5-10 degrees off your cuising temps, this stuff is a god send. And it is not illegal to use in those times acceleration events at your local track where coolant, be it orange or green, is dissalowed.

Not snake oil.

 

[SWHEATON]

Scott Wheaton, ever use Water Wetter?

If you want to drop 5-10 degrees off your cuising temps, this stuff is a god send. And it is not illegal to use in those times acceleration events at your local track where coolant, be it orange or green, is dissalowed.

Not snake oil.

===================

Yes i have tried that same exact product and the same type thing from RP too (in my own bbc and a couple other peoples cars too) with not much relief (maybe 3-4deg) that i could see in either case.

But i have read that those type additives get max temp reduction when running 100% water which i have never tried it with,i have always added it to a 30/70 or 50/50 anti frz/dist water coolant mix where its supposedly less effective and to cooling system in good working cond that are cooling well to begin with.

So maybe if its added to a cooling system thats running 100% water & has some issues or a slight cooling capacity problem maybe its then where you will get the most benfit from it that you will readily see in an 8-10 deg reduction of coolant temp .

Scott

 

[SWHEATON]

Scott I stopped and picked up a infrared thermometer today to test a few things like temp drop across the radiator, temp probe location etc etc. It is 90 degrees right now. I flushed out probably 90% of the antifreeze. Added anti corrosion that i picked up from napa and the correct non ribbed upper hose. Filled the system up with deionized water (I have a crspotless deionizer and it is awesome!). I did not take it for a drive yet.

The fans come on right at 180. It stays dead on 190 with the fans only running at 50% or less which is perfect. Temp reading at the radiator inlet is 180. Temp at radiator outlet is 160. Twenty degree drop seems pretty good. Intake surface temp where the probe is screwed in is 200. Cylinder head temp on the side of the head is 200+- a couple.


What does this tell us? I am not sure. Do these readings help in any way?

===============================================

Nothing seems wrong with those temp readings though the motor & under hood area hasent been fully heat soaked either because you didnt take it for a long ride including dsome stop/go traffic either which may be why your showing very little temp variation from head to intake.

Since you added a new hose and refilled cooling system hopefully purging all air from it in the process take it for a nice long ride in wartmer temps to see of you still get the lrg temp variation/swings anymore especially after driving for 30-45 mins to ensure everything is full stabilized temp wise.

If no mpore lrg temp variation great,but if you still get temp variation but its less then before thats what happaens sometimes with elec fan setups .

The clutch fan cooling system setup with my rec upgrades keeps the temps much more stable then your avg elec fan setup does in this application.

If that still bugs you then maybe it would be time to remove the elec fans and go with a gm clutch fan setup with my rec 4-5 upgrades wich ensures you get max cooling from it .

If this doesnt work out like your hoping for PM letting me know (yr of your chevelle/motor -383 sbc/long w-pump?) and i will send you list what you need & where to get the parts to get you setup with my rec clutch fan setup that should cool a bit better and should also have less temp variation too.

BTW,in hotter temps like above 75-80 deg you should see more temp delta/variation between the head and intake after crusing/driving like for at least 30-45 mins to ensure everything is full heated up/heat soaked especially with cast iron intake,but at times there will be much less temp delta between cast iron head and a hi perf aftermarket AL intake even after crising for quite a while.

Good luck.

Scott

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

I vote for a factory 4 core copper and brass radiator.
Whats the width on the radiator your using?
Engine temps will vary depending on where you are getting your temps from.
200 really isn't too hot for an engine in my book.
Might want to add a cap with built in thermometer to see what the temps are at the radiator.

 

[SWHEATON]

I vote for a factory 4 core copper and brass radiator.
Whats the width on the radiator your using?
Engine temps will vary depending on where you are getting your temps from.
200 really isn't too hot for an engine in my book.
Might want to add a cap with built in thermometer to see what the temps are at the radiator.

=============

Agreed 200 deg is not so hot it will damage the motor ,thats for sure.

But i have experienced time after time running even 195-200deg + is pushing it for old school 40 yr old sbc or bbc street perf motors esp if that 200 deg is normal op/cruise temp and which would very likely go past 200 deg in njo time when hitting stop/go traffic on a hot summer day.

And if that 200 deg your reffering to at cruise is intake temp,it stinks !

Thats because that would = approx 210 maybe even 215 deg in head temp at cruise on a hot summer day .

Todays emmissions/ECU crontrolled EFI motors that are specifically designed to run at 200-220 deg all day long with different head & combustion chamber design etc are a totally different animal that should not be compraied to our 40+ yr old hi perf sbc or bbc motors that were specifically designed to run on leaded 98-102 octane fuel and not todays completely different reformulated lower octane 91-93 unleaded fuel with 10% ethenol added.

Any old school sbc or bbc street perf motor i have worked on over the past 42+ yrs that running at approx 180 deg vs 200-210+ deg range (talking in head temps here) runs considerably better when running 20-30 deg cooler at 180 deg resulting in the following:

* RETAINS BETTER THROTTLE RESPONCE

* RETAINES MORE POWER

* HYD VALVETRAIN IS A LITTLE QUIETER

* MOTOR RUNS QUIETER OVERALL

* OIL PRESSUE IS A BIT HIGHER ESP AT IDLE

* WHEN RUNNING 20-30 DEG COOLER AT 180DEG VS 200-210 DEG THE MOTOR IS LESS PRONE TO DETONATION OR RUN ON/DIESELING ON TODAYS CRAPPY ETHENOL'D LOWER OCTANE PUMP FUEL THOSE MOTORS WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO RUN ON IN THE 1ST PLACE.

* IN SOME CASES YOU CAN RUN A MORE AGGRESSIVE TIMING CURVE WITHOUT DETONATION FOR CONSIDERABLY BETTER THROTTLE RESPONCE AND MORE POWER TOO

* IN SOME CASES PEOPLE HAVE REPORTED TO ME WHEN I GOT THIER MOTORS COOLER AT 180 DEG ON AVG THAT IT CURED OR AT LEAST SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED HOT START /STARTER HEAT SOAK REFIRE ISSUES RUNNING 20+ DEG COOLER ESP WHEN AT SHORT STOPS LIKE FOR EX REFIRING MOTOR POST FUELING UP .

* PEOPLE ALSO REPORTED TO ME IN SOME CASES THEY FOUND THIER IN CABIN/PASS COMPARTMENT TEMP WAS A BIT COOLER WHEN I GOT THEIR MOTORS RUNNING MUCH COOLER TOO ESP WHEN THEY GOT A 30+ DEG TEMP REDUCTION GOING FROM ELEC COOLING FANS TO MY UPGRADED CLUTCH FAN SETUP.

And adding my rec upgrades to gm's clutch fan setup normally has a sbc or bbc motor in stock to fairly stout perf lvl running at approx 180 deg + - in warmer temps talking in head temps here.

Scott

 

[ProStreet383]

Ok gentleman this is interesting. I just checked and I have the march high water flow pulleys which speeds up the pump some and a stewart stage 1 pump. Yet I get a 20 degree drop across the radiator which means my water flow is not fast enough according to this.


http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm


The pulleys I have

http://www.jegs.com/i/March+Performa.../6380/10002/-1


Interesting............. Pump going bad???????? We have pretty much exhausted all other options. I have had the pump on this engine for i would guess 8+ years but it has only seen maybe a couple hundred miles.


After changing the upper hose and getting rid of most of the anti freeze it now runs around 194 while cruising and when stopped it comes down to 190 and stays there. If I force the fans to full speed it will come down to 180 and this is on a 90+ degree day.

Here come along for a short portion of a 12 mile cruise to check things out.

http://youtu.be/ZXXKkFs7e-Q


BTW the shot of the speedometer is not correct. I was not doing 70, more like 50. Cant figure out what driven gear I need to correct my speedo. Also notice in this hot weather I am running richer. I guess it is time to jet down a couple sizes.

 

[onovakind67]

Did you measure the temperature drop across the radiator at highway speeds?

 

[ProStreet383]

Did you measure the temperature drop across the radiator at highway speeds?

You want to come over and lay under the hood while we cruise down the road so we can get those reading?


No I haven't. Not sure how somebody could get those reading?

 

[ProStreet383]

I think we found our problem. Unless I am wrong this is not nearly enough coolant flow through the radiator. Take a look and tell me if this is enough flow through the radiator? To be honest I have never paid any attention to coolant flow through a radiator so I am not sure if this is right or not? I would think it would be flowing much better than this?

http://youtu.be/_RABbOEr2Tw

http://youtu.be/aKmS2cDpi-k

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

To be totally honest,the engine temps are going to very depending on water flow through the engine.
No engine is going to circulate water so perfectly,that the complete engine stays under 200 degrees.
I bet if you use an infrared thermometer,you'd find some part of the block at 250 degrees.
As long as the engine isn't coughing up coolant,I believe you should be fine.

 

[SWHEATON]

I think we found our problem. Unless I am wrong this is not nearly enough coolant flow through the radiator. Take a look and tell me if this is enough flow through the radiator? To be honest I have never paid any attention to coolant flow through a radiator so I am not sure if this is right or not? I would think it would be flowing much better than this?

http://youtu.be/_RABbOEr2Tw

http://youtu.be/aKmS2cDpi-k

===========

I had that issus with the hi flow stats on the market these days that are mfg off shore not opening fully somewhat restriciting coollant flow.

Thats when i started using autozones stainless steel hi flow stats that always gave great/max coolant flow and havent had one issue with them in the past 3 yrs i have used them and rec to others that used them too.

scott