Team Chevelle banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part JULY's Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’d like to get a wideband to help tune my 496. Don’t really want a guage as I already have enough gauges and don’t want to be constantly monitoring a gauge. Think I want a system I can hook up, record some data, do some tuning and then remove. If I want to tune again I will hook it up again.
Is my only choice for a wideband like that the LM-2? I’ve sen a lot of poor reviews for innovative concerning the tech support and some for the units themselves. I know many could be user error related but they can’t all be. Are there any other systems out there. Ideally I’d like to find a gently used one as I really don’t want to pay $300.00-$500.00 for what is basically a tuning tool I’ll possibly use couple times and sit in a drawer forever. Don’t mind that with my timing light but that was only $50.00.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
I’d like to get a wideband to help tune my 496. Don’t really want a guage as I already have enough gauges and don’t want to be constantly monitoring a gauge. Think I want a system I can hook up, record some data, do some tuning and then remove. If I want to tune again I will hook it up again.
Is my only choice for a wideband like that the LM-2? I’ve sen a lot of poor reviews for innovative concerning the tech support and some for the units themselves. I know many could be user error related but they can’t all be. Are there any other systems out there. Ideally I’d like to find a gently used one as I really don’t want to pay $300.00-$500.00 for what is basically a tuning tool I’ll possibly use couple times and sit in a drawer forever. Don’t mind that with my timing light but that was only $50.00.
Just get a good gauge for about $150 or so that has data logging outputs. Get the bung welded into your exhaust. Connect the gauge, run the wire up through a window, use some zip ties to hold the wires from melting on the exhaust/dragging on the ground, use a suction cup or something to stick it to the dash/windshield/etc. Do your test driving and tuning. Remove the gauge, cut the zip ties off and put a screw in plug into the bung in the exhaust.

Now you only have $150 sitting in the drawer. :)

(This of course assumes you have some sort of device like a laptop input to grab the data logging output from the gauge if you want it.)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So what is typically needed in addition to a laptop and a data capable air/fuel gauge to do some data logging. I assume some type of cable to record the rpm? How difficult is the process of recording and analyzing the data?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,355 Posts
I like my LM2, but it can be finiky and the Log works software is not self intuitive. it does take some figuring out. I can see why people complain, but the actual data collected is really good. so there is a balance there of quality vs some time spent figuring stuff out.


Zietronics is another good choice.

after that, i'm not sure of any Wideband systems that data log.


What you most definitely want is something that can data log O2 and Rpm.

it's virtually impossible to look at a log with just 02 and then try to make a change to the carb, it just doesn't tell enough of the story. but put RPM and O2 on the screen together and things start to make sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
I think you need some sort of multi-channel interface for the sensors. I have only tuned with my gauge while driving, I haven't connected it to a data logger yet (the gauge I bought has data logging capabilities.)

I have been researching, but haven't done the actual implementation yet. I was looking at something like this:


It has 4 channels, I was going to put the wideband on one channel, RPM on another, vacuum on another and a throttle position sensor on the 4th.

That is a side project for me though, once I knock out some more important things. I was going to take this, and the wiring and sensors and build my own little portable unit that I could customize as necessary and move from car to car.

I'm sure others have more experience at this and could answer...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So I was wondering about the Autometer wide band gauges as I have other Autometer
and they seem to be quality. So I called there tech service and ask if all there wideband gauges are capable of data logging and what is needed to do so besides a laptop. He said all Autometer widebands are set up for data logging and nothing else is needed.
I find that difficult to believe. Maybe it is capable of recording the O2 rate but where is the rpm signal coming from? I would think one would need something like the unit above. I’ve tried researching this but can’t seem to find anything that covers how to record data with a
laptop.

So Lucifer. You are making tuning changes just based on what your gauge is reporting to you live?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
So I was wondering about the Autometer wide band gauges as I have other Autometer
and they seem to be quality. So I called there tech service and ask if all there wideband gauges are capable of data logging and what is needed to do so besides a laptop. He said all Autometer widebands are set up for data logging and nothing else is needed.
I find that difficult to believe. Maybe it is capable of recording the O2 rate but where is the rpm signal coming from? I would think one would need something like the unit above. I’ve tried researching this but can’t seem to find anything that covers how to record data with a
laptop.

So Lucifer. You are making tuning changes just based on what your gauge is reporting to you live?
Yeah, what they mean is that the gauge supports data logging. I.E. it means you can connect it and it will output signals for data logging. Some gauges don't have that. What they don't mean is that it will also log other data streams. Now, maybe there are other gauges that will consolidate data streams somehow - but I haven't seen 'em.

Yes, I'm just watching the gauges as I drive and correlating them roughly - "I'm at 2500 rpm and the AFR says this" or "I pull WOT and it says this" etc. I have a vacuum, AFR, trans temp, and other typical gauges in my car.

To record with a laptop, what you do is connect the sensors into a channel interface like I linked above, and then your laptop connects to that channel interface and reads the various output all together, and that coordinates the various sensors together into one data stream with similar timestamps that you can then display and look at with various software.

I'm sure there are other more self contained things and ways to do it as well, again, I'm still in the early research stages of this too, trying to figure out what will work best for me.

Which is why I just have my simple brain reading the gauges as I drive around right now and getting the tune pretty close. Close enough for street driving, but if I were trying to eek out every last little tiny bit at the track, I would have to get much more sophisticated with the data logging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,127 Posts
Question is, do you really need one. Once you go down this road it only get more uncomfortable lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well it would be nice to get the carb tuned in on my car. I recently did some tuning on the idle circuit as the transfer slots were opened up waaaay too much. I also have the ME Wagner pcv valve and have to run that in fixed mode but may be able to tune in the carb more by opening up the pcv more.
Anyway I kind of came up with a hillbilly way of recording a wideband gauge. Probably takes two people. Hook up the gauge and have the second person record a video of the gauge with a cell phone while the driver calls out rpm at different intervals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lucifershammer

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
Well it would be nice to get the carb tuned in on my car. I recently did some tuning on the idle circuit as the transfer slots were opened up waaaay too much. I also have the ME Wagner pcv valve and have to run that in fixed mode but may be able to tune in the carb more by opening up the pcv more.
Anyway I kind of came up with a hillbilly way of recording a wideband gauge. Probably takes two people. Hook up the gauge and have the second person record a video of the gauge with a cell phone while the driver calls out rpm at different intervals.
I've done something similar - setup a GoPro or other camera that can see all the gauges as you drive. Then just drive. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
Might be things better for fine tuning. Just look around.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
No, I cant. You would have to do that leg work. Message some of the moderators here. Calculated Risk (member here) might be able to help you. I know of another person that use to use the LM2, but that was about 14 to 15 years ago. Im sure that person might have another system by now.

The LM2 was the last system I knew about. There are others too. That was about 15 years ago. Im sure there are some that plug right into a laptop now.

Im sure there might be a speed shop in your town that can help you locate what you are wanting.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok thanks. I misunderstood as I thought you were talking about something other than a wideband air/fuel system.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
Ok thanks. I misunderstood as I thought you were talking about something other than a wideband air/fuel system.

That is what a LM2 is. I think. I could be mistaken. I have not looked at one in like 15 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Hi BLM,

I started with an Innovate LM2 last year with my AMP EFI Ultimate fuel injection. After about 3-4 hours of just idling, the damn thing died. It was given to me as a gift, so I couldn't really turn it in for warranty. After that, I ended up going with an AEM wideband unit. AEM has several different types (with and without the gauge). Of interest is that their wideband outputs not only the standard 0-5 volt signal but also RS232 and CAN. If you do end up going fuel injection at some point, the CAN signal is extremely noise-resistant.

Good luck!

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I’ve had good luck with my LM-2. Never had any issues with it. The 12v adapter is finicky plugged into a cigarette lighter. You are better off hardwiring it temporarily so you don’t lose power in the middle of a data log.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I bought an Autometer 4379 and a couple other items so I can just hook it up temporarily. Also got a nice long length of vacuum hose so I can hook up my vacuum gauge temporarily and see it while im driving.
So from what ive read the idle air/fuel mixture can be the most difficult to read and set. May not be feasable to get it set? The cruise and wide open setting are easier to accomplish?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
627 Posts
I wouldn't say its difficult. Its that you need to know what each circuit does and how its influenced by fuel, air and where in the RPM ranges it happens. Many just look at Idle, Cruise and WOT and are happy. I find myself watching it like its TV. Another thing Ill say, its easy to go down the 'watching' constantly and trying to get the smoothest transitions. Its addicting. Though its amazing once its correct !

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
If you want it right and I mean REALLY right there are 3 choices

1) you are smokey yunick and have mastered the art of plug reading. And I dont mean "ok plug is tan I'm good "
So that takes #1 right out of the loop because you arent smokey yunick. It takes decades of plug reading to be anywhere near proficient at it .

2) try and read extensively on how to read them , soak it in ,comprehend it all and then spend a whole lot of time in and out with plugs as you change things with the carb .
And if you've got headers the in and out can be a REAL pain in the ARSE .

3) spend 2 to 400 for a nice set up with a Gauge , install it and then you can SEE EXACTLY where you are and when and then make adjustments accordingly.

If you want ok and good enough is good enough then go ahead and tinker around till it runs decent.
If you want optimal then buy the set up .
If max power is what you want then the engine is gonna want between about 12.3 ish to 13.6 ish on any engine . Anything inbetween and you're picking the pepper out of the fly shit.

When its 13 to 1 ALL THE WAY through it's a world of difference and the day you get that with out the set up go ahead and buy a lottery ticket that same day because youd be on that kind of roll with those kind of odds.

I dont care who they are or think they are
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top