[Paul Lower SoCal]

Looks like I'm going to have to add a Ford starter solenoid to go with my headers and gear reduction permanent magnet starter as covered in an earlier post question. Does anyone sell a chrome or polished stainless unit? Can't imagine putting an ugly new Ford solenoid under my hood. Is there some other aftermarket unit out there?

 

[yellowcar72]

MAD Electrical has a kit to put the battery and solenoid in the trunk. With the solenoid in the back the wires are "hot" only when you start the car.

 

[Paul Lower SoCal]

YellowCar 72,

Check www.madelectrical.com

This kit indicates it's for "GM Systems (since 1985)". Does this mean it's for HEI type cars made after 1985?

[This message has been edited by Paul Lower SoCal (edited 10-28-2002).]

 

[65elcamino]

Paul,

When I installed one, I put it under the fender beside the battery. I drilled two holes through the vertical wall area of my fender. You can't see it and only know it's there if you follow the wires with hand.

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Brian TC#1092, ACES#4374
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1965 El Camino Before Restoration
1981 Corvette

 

[HOTRODSRJ]

There is something wrong here. I have NEVER seen a mini starter with a ford solenoid?...and I have seen tens of thousands of cars! Is the solenoid working at all?

There is something else at play here. Are you sure that the feed circuit is good and moreover the starter is strong enough for the application. Have you done the appropriate troubleshooting and voltage measurements?

What are the symptoms. If the starter is just barely turning then the solenoid will not help. It's something else. Have you checked the wires and feed circuit to the S terminal. Give us some more information and maybe we can come up with a solution that does not involve a remote solenoid.

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Steve Jack
-Concept One Pulleys and Brackets
-Marketing Technologies Limited
-Northern/Southern Rodder Magazine's "Jack'Stands" technical column author/originator

 

[Paul Lower SoCal]

HODRODSRJ,(Steve)

Read my earlier post from a few days ago whichs starts "Small Permanet Magnet Starter".

I haven't even installed yet in the car. It's sitting on the workbench.

What I was getting from the earlier post was that because I don't have an HEI system, and don't have a terminal(on the new starter) to hook the yellow wire to, that I was going to have to install the Ford type of solenoid to get the proper current during the cranking of the engine.

Trying to figure out what to do with the yellow wire that used to go the conventional type of GM starter.

Please respond.

Thanks for your input!

Paul

 

[Peter F.]

I agree with Steve, you shouldn't need the remote solenoid with a mini-starter.

You need to check all of the connections on the purple start wire for bad or dirty contacts. Check the power feed coming to the ignition switch too. Likely, you'll find that cleaning some contacts will help with the starting problem. It'll also help with things such as the light brightness.

As far as I'm concerned, you should never need to use a Ford solenoid, ever. Just install a hidden Bosch style 30A relay and switch power to the solenoid S terminal with it. Power the coil with the purple wire and use the NO contact between the battery and the S terminal. Put a 30A fuse on the wire and use 12 guage wire for the S terminal wiring.

It's amazing how the Ford solenoid is the fix-all band-aid for Chevy starter problems.

One of those Bosch relays is much easier to hide than a Ford Solenoid.

Peter

 

[d1_bradley]

Yeah, you can put the relay under the dash somewhere.

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Dave Bradley
www.corvetteforum.net/classics/d1_bradley
'69 SS396 ragtop
'33 3W Coupe
'65 Vette BB Roadster

 

[John_Muha]

I agree. The relay sounds like a better idea than what I came up with. Just don't mount a plastic one near the headers.

 

[Peter F.]

I just read your other post. Are you just looking for a place to connect the yellow wire? Try the car first without it connected. I bet it will start just fine without it connected.

The yellow wire just supplies a full 12V to the coil to give a better spark during cranking. If it's not connected you get the normal running circuit producing the spark.

If it doesn't start, do as Steve Jack recommended. Get a big 10A diode. Connect it with the band end connected to the yellow wire and the other end connected to the starter terminal. Or, use a small relay to power the wire. You do not need a Ford solenoid for that.

As another further note, if you're using the relay for the S terminal power, it is best to run a fused 12 guage wire directly from the battery to it. That way, you eliminate all of the factory wiring and connections which are giving the trouble.

Peter

 

[cjlandry]

I don't need a Ford solenoid for my car, but I have one because I don't like having a live, high current wire running that close to my headers. I've had one melt the insulation and short out before. Not nice.

If you use big enough cables from the battery and everything is clean and tight, you won't need the Ford solenoid for starting. Heat soak won't be a problem.

I think most people that have heat soak issues have undersized cables.

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My Web Page (updated 10-14-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

 

[Gene McGill]

I have a Ford solenoid on my car, but it's wired the way you would wire in the relay; I'm just switching in the S terminal current, not the cranking current (no modified battery cables). I figure it's overkill , switching 30 amps with a "relay" that capable of switching hundreds of amps (increased MTBF), plus I can find one in any parts store in any town for probably less than $20 on a Sunday. I could mount it under the dash somewhere if I wanted, but I know that it can handle the elements under the hood just fine.

 

[yellowcar72]

What he means is he has been making the remote soleniod kit since 1985.

 

[HOTRODSRJ]

Hey Paul.....I have great news for you. I really didn't understand what was going on but now I do. You do not need the "bumping circuit" for your application. In other words....the full 12 volts is NOT necessary to get the ignition to work and start properly as long as the other components are in good shape.

The "bumping circuit" was designed literally 50 years ago to help the ignition overcome poor starting conditions (usually cold weather, poor fuels and high compression) and/or was to offset natural degradation in the wiring and spark system. Unless you are running funny fuel or high compression or live on the Artic Circle...then try this...you'll like it, easy fix. This assumes you have the correct ign resistor as well, there are differences.

I can tell you today that you can tape this wire back and away you go. I have done this time and time again on many a car with a new mini. So, the good news is just do it and try it first! Put in on and listen to the music it makes and roll on! I should have just said it way back...

On the ignition side.....if you want to upgrade to a regular footprint full 12 volt system, look at a Pertronix solid state switch with their coil. This replaces the points and You then can eliminate the resistor and you do not need the wire anyway!

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Steve Jack
-Concept One Pulleys and Brackets
-Marketing Technologies Limited
-Northern/Southern Rodder Magazine's "Jack'Stands" technical column author/originator



[This message has been edited by HOTRODSRJ (edited 10-29-2002).]

 

[Paul Lower SoCal]

Steve,

That is good news.

TO ALL,

thanks for all your input on this problem.

You're a great bunch of Chevelle guys.