[Treillw]

This same post can be seen in the "Had a 283 laying around, So I started thinking!" I figured it would be better to make a new thread.

My dad's 66 chevelle has been sitting in the garage since 78, when he decided to rebuild the motor and fix the rusty trunk. But he never got time to work on it so it has been sitting there untill I decided I wanted to restore it. He is the original owner of it and everything is still stock.
(10 bolt-3.08 gears, 283, Saginaw 4 Speed) I was thinking of building a 355, modeled after a crate motor (companies tell you everything that is on them, so why not build the "same" motor myself for half the price). Although my dad always tells me that I should put the 283 back in it. He says it is faster than I think, and has more power than I will ever need to use on the street. Apperently he isn't the only one who thinks like this....

"Kids that have never driven a short stroke, high rpm SB motor just can't really know what it is like ta put your foot into it until you get scared.. He, He!! AND then shift..." (PDQ67)

I doubt that I will race the car. I might take it to the track a few times for fun but I don't think I will do it all the time. I want the car to be slow, but get to top speed in a hurry (was thinking 4.56 gears or maybe lower now that I'm reading this). After all you can't go that fast on todays roads anyway. I would rather just show off and race from red light to red light.
I hate all of those japped up cars that everybody my age thinks are so fast, and I want something to put them in their place. Which motor would be the best for what I want to do?

Would a 283 have enough torque with that high of a powerband to get the Chevelle moving, or is that where the really low gears come in at? I was also thinking of getting a TKO 5-speed which would probably be a good idea if I'm going to get 4.56 gears or lower. Will just any 283 rev to 7000rpms or does it have to have something special done to it to be able to rev like that? I don't really want to blow any of the original stuff apart, should I get a 12 bolt and use a different 283 block? Will the 10 bolt hold up with lower gears? Would it be better to look for a 302 block to build a motor? They have the same stroke as a 283, correct? How will something that revs that high be for drivablilty?

Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks, Josh

 

[Guest]

Sorry, I didn't realize you had started a new thread.

I bought a cheap PAW supposed 264/246, 108/108, .498" gross lift, lash at .030" solid cam to go in my 283.

I figure this cam is actually a 280/246, 108, .498" jobber from looking at Elgins and Clevites cam spec's. I'm going to use 1.6 ratio rockers so it will be right at .500" lift lashed.

I figure 8,000+ rpm easy!!

I just have to either find a cheap set of 292/301 pistons OR change everything and use 6.25" long custom rods and 6" rod, 350 motor roundy-round pistons!

Only thing is, is that the rods only come in medium journal size, therefore I would need a medium journal 3" forged crank as well as a 4" bore medium journal block so all my good 283 stuff would go out the window.

pdq67

PS., don't get me wrong guys b/c I have a new 496 BB in my car now unstarted and my 406 SB on my motor stand... BUT I do dearly love the little, high rpm short stroke motors!!!

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[Bob West]

"Kids that have never driven a short stroke, high rpm SB motor just can't really know what it is like ta put your foot into it until you get scared.. He, He!! AND then shift..." (PDQ67)

Anyones that has ridden behind a MILD(6k rpm) big block wouldnt want to build a 283 either

 

[Treillw]

I think that a 283 with as much power as a big block will be faster . With a shorter stroke it will rev faster, shift faster, go faster. Won't it? About how much power do you think your 283s have?

 

[Redrum]

You can build a big block that will pull well beyond 7000 RPM too. Everyone has a favorite but a "283" is more of a "Chevy II" engine, working best in the lightest vehicle possible.

 

[rianbechtold]

I think that a 283 with as much power as a big block will be faster . With a shorter stroke it will rev faster, shift faster, go faster. Won't it? About how much power do you think your 283s have?

Well, your theory is probably correct, however, the fact that big blocks make such power so easily, will run you off the road. Once someone has a running big block, it is just a matter of time before they are pushing 600 horsepower. If you take a 454 and do a MILD build u will be in the 400+ horsepower range, much more than 283's will have without extensive work (or so i believe).
Now, IF you wanna keep your 283 (which i think is a cool idea because it'll be different) your main concern will be weight. Don't go with the 12 bolt, a 10 will hold up just fine. If you can keep everything light, you will hold a big advantage over the big block guys. Good Luck

 

[greg_moreira]

Especially with streetability in mind, bigger is better! Just to give you an idea, right now I have a 66 gran sport(Very comparable to your car). Its got a 300 inch wildcat motor. As of now, its got some of the basics. A converter, carb/tuning, dizzy recurve, cam, dual exhaust to replace the single...yadda yadda. Just the simple stuff. Either way, it revs nicely and pulls well for what it is....but do you think I can beat up on many irocs or rustangs from the 80's? Not really. It will slowly but surely outpull the run of the mill ones from a kickdown.....but its just hard to get it movin good. Granted its only got a 2 speed and thats not helping matters....but even with better gearing, Id never get the thing too much faster than what it is. I wouldnt even bother trying to go much faster with this motor, which is why Im buildin somethin bigger as soon as I sort some other things out with this car and numerous other projects.

These little motors are NOT easy to make them go super fast. IT will be SUPER expsensive to do so and without LOTS of persuasion(like boost or nitrous) it would never come close to being as fast as a well engineered big block....and street manners would be nowhere the same if you make it as fast on motor. Heck, even a small block 406 with descent heads around 200cc and a cam around 276-280 degrees would easily run 12's in a descent setup streetcar. Youd have to wring the snot out of an all motor 283 to do that in a heavy car and it would not be streetable(At least not even close to a small block of around 400 inches)....and even still, it would cost more to build it if you want it to stay together for a long period of time and compete. Engines are air pumps. the bigger the pump...the more air you can easily move and the more power you can make. Thats why all the big competitors most often build the biggest motors their class rules allow. Competing with a well built big block is a different story all together. It just isnt going to happen with a 283 unless you spend TONS of money on it....and even still, with all the best stuff Id still be suspicious of anybody who claimed to go as fast as easily as some of these big inchers.

At least a 350 cube motor will work wonders for the seat of your pants compared to a 283 street motor! Driving around on 4.56 gears is fun at full throttle....but it gets old real quick when you drive a lot. It gets even older when moderately cubed larger motors with real mid setups give you a run for your money. Consider a mild, one horsepower per cube 283. It makes 283 horses. Now consider a mild one horsepower per cube 350. It makes 350 horses...still plenty mild, but has a lot more torque and 67 more horsepower. Youve gotta go milder to compete...and just imagine how much milder youd have to go to compete with a one horsepower per cube 496(And they can easily make a heck of a lot more than around 500 horses). Once again...bigger air pumps move more air and make more power easier.

 

[Guest]

Greg,

The 300 Buick has a 3.75" b x 3.40" stroke so flat won't run like a 301/302 chevy at all!

I am not saying not to build a BIG motor, but rather built right, the little, high rpm, short stroke motors are an absolute HOOT when installed in a light-weight car and then tired and geared right!!

Real giant-killers, imho!!

Remember, I have my 283 in parts, my complete daily driven, 406 SB on my motor stand and my brand-new, unstarted 496 BB in my car now. (Plus, an extra 4-bolt, 400 SB motor if my nephew doesn't claim it)....

pdq67

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[Gloryhound]

My dad's 63 impala SS convertable has a 283 with the two speed power glide. It is all stock and a real dog off the line. Right now I have a line on a 63 impala 327 engine and my dad is very interested in getting this engine and putting it in since it is a correct engine. He will keep the origional #'s 283, just incase he ever wants to sell the car he can sell it as a #'s matching car.

Now my grandfather used to use a 283 in the sprint car he crew cheifed for. His car always ran about 1000 RPM higher than the other cars on the track, but he was able to keep up and win races against the chevy 327 and later 350's. Also he could keep up with the guys running ford and dodge engines. You have to look at the fact that a sprint car is alot lighter than most any street car though.

I thought about a 283 in my 72 Nova, but ended up getting a good deal on a 402 BBC out of a Chevelle. So it's going into the Nova to make a strong sleeper that later in life will end up being super charged or dual turbo's. I have never had a Big Block car and everyone says once I get the car done and drive it I'll never want to drive another small block car again.

So ultimately my opinion would be remove the 283, but keep it so you can make the car #'s matching. And get yourself a BBC. Then instead of just beating those rice burners you can make them look funny!

 

[greg_moreira]

pdq, your right on that one. Even if there were lots of gofast stuff for this motor....its just not a good platform to start with. The only way for it to make power is to breath at bigger rpm cause its small.....and it dont got the bore to promote good breathing like many of your other small motors. So yeah, I agree there for sure.

Actually, I was talking to some of the big time buick guys trying to figure out whatever I could, mainly about where to get parts for the car(trim and all that....replacement panels or whatever). I need that kinda stuff for the resto, but some motor talk came up too. They say this engine has a super durable bottom end(especially crank) in the buick. One guy was asking how much the bottom end can take, and most agreed that with the durability of the bottom end, with just some oiling system mods you will never break it and thats because there simply arent enough options for this motor to build enough power to break anything! Nobody even makes an intake manfold for it! Most are 2 barrels and some had 4 barrels factory. It sure sucks to spend all that big money on a 4 barrel over ebay when you can find one. With the super lightweight of this motor as well....some mild boost to make around 400 horsepower would be a neat surprise though! But, I dont wanna mess with that.

Anyways, pqd, you should know yourself cause you got one of them big motors. Whether the 283 turns out to be a giant killer or not...I know you like the big mild motors too(I seem to remember you calling them big tow truck motors hehe). So in the case of your mild big motor, disreguard the fun factor of spinning a small motor to terminal velocity and just imagine what it would take to get a 283 to hang with your real MILD big incher. A 283 naturally aspriated on pump gas would have to be one heck of a rad little motor to make up for the size difference and compete with your tow truck motor. It would also need a big converter and wicked gears to work with the buildup. Lets not even talk about what it would take to keep up with some of these big motors that are built a little more over the edge!

Thats my main arguement here. Were talkin about a big car with a small motor, and even just to easily handle you trypical street posers, youd need to build that little motor pretty good...and for me, it would get old to drive around a screamer. Id rather do just as good or better driving a "tow truck motor". hehe.

 

[Racing]

I would rebuild "dad's" car like dad wants.

 

[wes migletz]

My 59 came with a 270 HP 283. We bored the block to 4.00" after having it sonic checked; it can go another .030" over. I had a 4340 3.75" crank turned down to fit; the crank had already spun a bearing and I got it for almost nothing. I studded the block, but kept the 2 bolt main caps. In hind sight I should have used the splayed 4 bolt main caps from pro-gram engineering... they are on my 62's SJ 327 block. I went with a 6.00" rod and a light weight forged piston. The cranks counter weights had to be turned-down to clear the block. With a fairly mild solid flat tappet, we're expecting 420 HP give or take through the factory heads and intake, with tuned 1 5/8" headers. I could have made more power for less $$$ and less hassle if I'd have just built a 400 sb or stroked a 350 and ran a good aftermarket head, or even a later 461X casting.

IMHO, the 270 HP 283 was nothing to write home about. With a 4 spd and 4.10 gears, they ran high 14's. I doubt you'd be happy with a 283, or even a 302 in your Chevelle. The 4.56 gears will grow old when kids in Hyundais are blowing by you on the freeway.

I would also weigh heavily on what your father wants when persuing this build. it wouldn't take much to do a mild rebuild of the 283. Then, when dad sees you can take care of the car, maybe the two of you could build a hotter engine together.

 

[Treillw]

Alright, you guys talked me out of the 283. I originally wanted a to get a 454for it, but my dad wasn't too crazy about that, but he said wouldnt mind a 355.

I probably will buy a short block from a company that I found in CHP magazine, i forget their name, but they sell 355 short blocks for $1200 I think. In the edelbrock books they tell you everything that is on their motors, so I figure I could build the same motor that they want $6kish for, for around $3200. I'd like to get 450-500 hp.

Has anybody ever heard anything about AFR heads (Airflow Research)? I read about them in a CHP book too and they sound pretty good. They claim to outflow Edelbrock and everybody,but just the same as Edelbrock claims to outflow everybody also!!! I was looking at their 180cc heads. They also have a Hydra-Rev kit that is supposed to give you more top end power. Does anybody know anything about how that works?

Josh

 

[Bob West]

Have you been to the track lately? Those imports just keep gettin faster, a 355 on nitrous would have a tough time keeping up with them. They are running 10's,11's and 12's around here, turbo charged, nitrous oxide. I'd spring for a big block and then maybe add nitrous

 

[Stikman33]

AFR's are excellent heads and probably some of if not the best out of the box flowing head out there. Now they are pricey, but still, for a 450-500 hp goal you will be better off and really cheaper to go with a Big Block, even a 383 would make it easier than a 355. More cubes = more power easier, and finding/building a 454 is really a fairly inexpensive deal.

Daniel

 

[rianbechtold]

I probably will buy a short block from a company that I found in CHP magazine, i forget their name, but they sell 355 short blocks for $1200 I think. In the edelbrock books they tell you everything that is on their motors, so I figure I could build the same motor that they want $6kish for, for around $3200. I'd like to get 450-500 hp.
Josh

Ummm, from my experience, ur gunna be hard pressed to build 450-500 hp small-block with $3200. Also, the assembled engines by edelbrock are built like that for a reason, to save someone building a motor money. With the parts they have, the engines are relatively cheap. If u buy the parts individually, u will end up paying more than u would if u bought the complete engine. Hell, take the heads ($1000), aluminum air-gap intake ($300), carb ($250), distributor and similar items ($250), starter ($150), cam, lifters, and pushrods ($400?), head gasket set ($100), valve covers and other accesories ($100). Right there is about $2500 then add in your short block and it's be around $3700, and you still don't have a running engine. Plus, you are putting alot of trust into that shortblock. I would find out if the company is reliable or not because some take crap blocks, bore them out, put in used cast parts and advertise them as high-horsepower engines.Also, with the edelbrock motors, say you could somehow build the motors piece by pice and save money, you can't buy a warranty like their motors have, you can't buy the quality of work that goes into the assembly process, there are some things u just can't buy. Good Luck

 

[Rowdy]

Your last paragraph just tossed your $3200 theory out the window.

If your honest with your self, that would have been either wishful thinking or outright denial anyway.

The absolute best deal that you can get would likely take a little compromise in specific manufacturers, but can put a similar motor at a reasonable price between the frame rails with relatively little delay. That would be finding something in your local classifieds (depending where you live, still no mention). There's always someone out there that; Sunk a big chunk of change into a project that will never come to fruition; Old lady wears the pants; Lost their job; or my favorite, from back in the day when a Harley could be bought for a grand, Seller is about to be incarcerated.

What ever the reason, you can take advantage of others misfortune, get a decent cache of premium (often unused) hi-perf parts and have all the incidentals that would otherwise nickel and dime you to death. My advice is to tear it down to check out the clearances (unless you can verify reputable builder/machine shop).

I see pretty decent small blocks under $2500 all the time.

 

[bowtiepower00]

If the car already has the 283 in it, why not rebuild it with your old man? It would be a great learning experience, and give you the chance, for not a lot of money, to find out for yourself how a 283 really runs. Down the road you can build whatever you want. It's foolish to want to build a monster motor for your first, and the last thing you want is too much motor in your dad's classic car. Don't worry about the "imports". Classic cars should be about fun first, then speed later, particularly if it's your first one. Also, you don't need a BBC to run low numbers, but no matter how you look at it, it takes a lot of money to go fast. If you have your heart set on another motor, build a 350. You can make more power than you ever imagined with a 350, they are inexpensive, and they hold up well.

 

[Whittaker]

My first car was a 79 Grand Prix and it had a bad trans no reverse. So I was beating on it out behind the barn and some how reverse cam back. Flushed something out. In the process I spun a rod bearing in the yuck 301. He talked me into putting a bunch of money in a crank kit and he wouldn't even let me drop in the Turbo 301 cam in it. It had a lifter bad and the thing ticked all the time. I thought I'd spun another bearing each day.

That was not the great build up I wanted with my dad. He had 383s,327s, 350s, and 2 396s laying around. I kept wishing he'd let me put one of the BBs in anything.

I would save and find a 454 and rebuild it. Parts are the same price for it as a 396. Or make it look stock and put a 400Sb in it with some 200cc heads.

Even my first Chevelle my dad wanted me to keep the 230 six and put a 4bbl and a split header on it. No way!!! I went right for a used running 454 which has been rebuilt several times and now is a 489. Go for the torque at 2000-2500 of a BB shift it at 6000-6500, not a 283 screaming to 8000. IMO. But I did build my 408 SB after I had built the 489. I wish I had done another 489.

 

[Treillw]

I appreciate all of the attempted help, but you are sorta taking me back to square one. I beleive that the motors that I wanted to decide between were a 283 and a 350, maybe even a 400.

"Have you been to the track lately? Those imports just keep gettin faster, a 355 on nitrous would have a tough time keeping up with them. They are running 10's,11's and 12's around here, turbo charged, nitrous oxide. I'd spring for a big block and then maybe add nitrous" (Bob West)

I'm not picking on Bob here, but remember what I want the motor for!! I do not need 700hp for the street. Heck, 300 hp is plenty to get me in trouble. I don't live in CA where everybody seems to have a 700hp motor in their daily driver.

And for the I cant build a good 355 for $3200.... Even if I can't build one for 3200...it wil surely be less than $6000!! The short block that I want to get is made by Hye-Tech and is only $900. I might not even get it from there, I can have one built locally for around the same price. This would probaly be better anyway, because I will be able to get a warrenty. Anyway the block must not be to ****ty if CHP has chosen it to use to test all the different types of vortec heads. (Its in the July 2005 edition) With a dual plane manifold and a .509/.528 cam, the engines are making around 400 hp.