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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
street rod garage, art morrison, schwartz performance, ive been looking into these frames and i was curious if anyone has used any of em and which ones bolt up with least modifications thanks:wacko:
 

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Damn.. You hit the lottery? Lsx 454 twin turbos or 572 now a frame! Loan me some money
 

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Jesse, most of those frames look really nice, and are obviously very strong due to their designs. I was considering one of them a few years ago, but I noticed something about every one of them that I looked at that I figured that I would point out to you here in case it matters to you. Every one of those frames that I looked at lowers the ride height with the frame design itself via the shape of the frame rails instead of allowing the end user to lower the ride height with his choice of springs. That might not matter to you if you're building a Pro Touring type of car or maybe even a car to be used for road course racing. But if you intend to build a street/strip car or perhaps a drag race only car, you might care to adjust the ride height to your own desire using coil spring height rather than it being automatically lowered via the frame rail design as is the case with those aftermarket A-body frames.

One of the things that I for one don't particularly like about those frame designs is that you would not be able to use a pre-bent exhaust kit for them. Take a look at the advertisement pics of just about all of those frames which shows the typical 9" rear end and suspension already installed. Look at how low the left and righthand side frame rails sit over the rear end housing, and you'll soon realize that you will not be able to route the exhaust tailpipes in the GM factory postions going over the axle tubes. Instead, you would have to route the tailpipes going UNDERNEATH the axle tubes IF you want to route the pipes going all the way back to the rear bumper like the factory did it. It's either that, or you would have to forget about tailpipes, and have the exhaust routed out to the side of the car in front of the rear tires, or simply use muffler turn down pieces. I've never driven a car with exhaust that exits underneath, but many guys who have told me that the two things that didn't like aboyut that is that it's impossible to keep the car clean since every parking lot that you drive through gets all the dirt and dust kicked-up in a dust cloud around the car if muffler turndowns are used. And many of them also tell me that the dreaded interior "cabin drone" is increased quite a bit during low RPM cruising when the exhaust ends are located underneath the car instead of routed to the back or out the side.

If that's how you want your exhaust, then you're ok. But that's ok as long as you don't mind that this will also cut down on the ground clearence of the exhaust. On GM A-body cars, the rear bumper and lower edges of the quarter panels in the rear are higher up off the ground than the frame rails and body pieces located in front of the rear wheels. So by having the exhaust pipes exit in front of the rear tires, they will be considerably lower to the ground than they would be if you exit the exhaust at the rear bumper like the factory did it. Another thing that I don't like about most of these aftermarket frames is that you're confined to using a 3" exhaust pipe diameter. A 3" diameter is plenty for most power levels being represented here. but if you ever want to really step up the power level of the engine into the 750+HP range, you'll either want to use open headers or you'll want atleast 3.5" diameter exhaust pipes from the header collectors to the mufflers. But you cannot pass exhaust pipes that big through the round holes of the undercarriages on most of these aftermarket frames (if not all of them).

So the reduction in ground clearences for the exhaust tailpipes wouldn't be my cup of tea, and that's something that none of the advertisements for these aftermarket frames are going to point out to the potential customer. There is no way I would want to route the tailpipes underneath the axle tubes. There's just not enough room for that between the axle tubes and the street. :noway: So I just thought I'd give you a little heads up on these things while you're considering dropping some big coin on one of these frames. Good luck with your choices. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jesse, most of those frames look really nice, and are obviously very strong due to their designs. I was considering one of them a few years ago, but I noticed something about every one of them that I looked at that I figured that I would point out to you here in case it matters to you. Every one of those frames that I looked at lowers the ride height with the frame design itself via the shape of the frame rails instead of allowing the end user to lower the ride height with his choice of springs. That might not matter to you if you're building a Pro Touring type of car or maybe even a car to be used for road course racing. But if you intend to build a street/strip car or perhaps a drag race only car, you might care to adjust the ride height to your own desire using coil spring height rather than it being automatically lowered via the frame rail design as is the case with those aftermarket A-body frames.

One of the things that I for one don't particularly like about those frame designs is that you would not be able to use a pre-bent exhaust kit for them. Take a look at the advertisement pics of just about all of those frames which shows the typical 9" rear end and suspension already installed. Look at how low the left and righthand side frame rails sit over the rear end housing, and you'll soon realize that you will not be able to route the exhaust tailpipes in the GM factory postions going over the axle tubes. Instead, you would have to route the tailpipes going UNDERNEATH the axle tubes IF you want to route the pipes going all the way back to the rear bumper like the factory did it. It's either that, or you would have to forget about tailpipes, and have the exhaust routed out to the side of the car in front of the rear tires, or simply use muffler turn down pieces. I've never driven a car with exhaust that exits underneath, but many guys who have told me that the two things that didn't like aboyut that is that it's impossible to keep the car clean since every parking lot that you drive through gets all the dirt and dust kicked-up in a dust cloud around the car if muffler turndowns are used. And many of them also tell me that the dreaded interior "cabin drone" is increased quite a bit during low RPM cruising when the exhaust ends are located underneath the car instead of routed to the back or out the side.

If that's how you want your exhaust, then you're ok. But that's ok as long as you don't mind that this will also cut down on the ground clearence of the exhaust. On GM A-body cars, the rear bumper and lower edges of the quarter panels in the rear are higher up off the ground than the frame rails and body pieces located in front of the rear wheels. So by having the exhaust pipes exit in front of the rear tires, they will be considerably lower to the ground than they would be if you exit the exhaust at the rear bumper like the factory did it. Another thing that I don't like about most of these aftermarket frames is that you're confined to using a 3" exhaust pipe diameter. A 3" diameter is plenty for most power levels being represented here. but if you ever want to really step up the power level of the engine into the 750+HP range, you'll either want to use open headers or you'll want atleast 3.5" diameter exhaust pipes from the header collectors to the mufflers. But you cannot pass exhaust pipes that big through the round holes of the undercarriages on most of these aftermarket frames (if not all of them).

So the reduction in ground clearences for the exhaust tailpipes wouldn't be my cup of tea, and that's something that none of the advertisements for these aftermarket frames are going to point out to the potential customer. There is no way I would want to route the tailpipes underneath the axle tubes. There's just not enough room for that between the axle tubes and the street. :noway: So I just thought I'd give you a little heads up on these things while you're considering dropping some big coin on one of these frames. Good luck with your choices. :thumbsup:
wow thanks i honestly had no idea but for the exhaust i seen that but according to advertisement they can change the plans a little bit i figured they could change the diameter of the exhaust holes out to 3.5-4inch but the exhaust running out the rear end of the car does matter to me and i had honestly no idea i wouldnt be able to i thought it was a sweet concept new frame reinforced discs all around etc and i liked the idea of tucking the ehaust cause my malibu is mostly stock and i scraped the headers going inot the drive way and its at a stock ride height but yeah then i guess ill probly look at redoing the cureent frame and boxing it cuz id much rather be able to lower it by suspension then to have to have a super low frame that its already a done deal no ones told me bout this i truelly apprciate it
 

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street rod garage, art morrison, schwartz performance, ive been looking into these frames and i was curious if anyone has used any of em and which ones bolt up with least modifications thanks:wacko:
I would bet that 99% + of the folks here use the original frame. Have you checked the pro-touring forums?
 

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I also wonder if any rear end can be used for these aftermarket frames since I always see them being offered with 9" rears only. This is merely speculation on my part, but when you look at how the rear part of the frame rails are shaped going over the axle tubes and just in front of them in the pictures that they show with the 9" rears installed, it's very apparent that the shape of the frame has the rear end housing tucked-up higher into the body of the car which must have the top of the pumpkin sitting closer to the chassis. But regardless of the choice of rear ends that can or cannot be used, that is the reason why there would be no room to run the tailpipes over the axle tubes, and dictate that they be run underneath the axle tubes if the tailpipes are to extend out to the rear bumper like the factory did it.

I agree that you might want to cruise the Pro Touring section to see if any guys there using those frames hae the tailpipes exiting at the rear bumper of their Chevelle, and write to them and ask them if the tubes had to be run under the axle tubes instead of over them. I've brought this issue up on the Pro Tourig forums here before, and nobody over there disagreed with what I was saying about this. But I cannot say that I've ever called one of these places that sell these frames to ask them about that, so you might want to make a phone call to inquire. Just be careful of the possibility of getting your typical "tech" guy on the other end of the phone who will throw any answer at you just to get you off the line.

I usually call back a second time on another day to see if I get another "tech" guy to see if I get a different answer which would conflict with that of the first guy's answer. You would be surprised how many times that reveals inaccurate answers, and outright lies being told by the people manning the phones of many of these aftermarket places. :rolleyes:
 

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While I havn't used them, checkout The Roadster Shop. They are local to me and I've been on a visit of their shop, top notch frames/chassis built there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I also wonder if any rear end can be used for these aftermarket frames since I always see them being offered with 9" rears only. This is merely speculation on my part, but when you look at how the rear part of the frame rails are shaped going over the axle tubes and just in front of them in the pictures that they show with the 9" rears installed, it's very apparent that the shape of the frame has the rear end housing tucked-up higher into the body of the car which must have the top of the pumpkin sitting closer to the chassis. But regardless of the choice of rear ends that can or cannot be used, that is the reason why there would be no room to run the tailpipes over the axle tubes, and dictate that they be run underneath the axle tubes if the tailpipes are to extend out to the rear bumper like the factory did it.

I agree that you might want to cruise the Pro Touring section to see if any guys there using those frames hae the tailpipes exiting at the rear bumper of their Chevelle, and write to them and ask them if the tubes had to be run under the axle tubes instead of over them. I've brought this issue up on the Pro Tourig forums here before, and nobody over there disagreed with what I was saying about this. But I cannot say that I've ever called one of these places that sell these frames to ask them about that, so you might want to make a phone call to inquire. Just be careful of the possibility of getting your typical "tech" guy on the other end of the phone who will throw any answer at you just to get you off the line.

I usually call back a second time on another day to see if I get another "tech" guy to see if I get a different answer which would conflict with that of the first guy's answer. You would be surprised how many times that reveals inaccurate answers, and outright lies being told by the people manning the phones of many of these aftermarket places. :rolleyes:
true enough and i know exactly what you mean and i agree with both you guys ill be checking out the protouring to see what i can find for frame info thanks for your time and input :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
While I havn't used them, checkout The Roadster Shop. They are local to me and I've been on a visit of their shop, top notch frames/chassis built there.

sure will
 

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i figured they could change the diameter of the exhaust holes out to 3.5-4inch
I dunno. But I have noticed that a couple advertisements I've seen for those frames state that "up to a 3" diameter exhaust can be used" so that would be something else that you would want to ask them over the phone before making a purchase, and also at the time of purchase, and make sure that you get the name of the person answering your question in case you get the frame delivered and it has not been altered to your liking and to your needs. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I dunno. But I have noticed that a couple advertisements I've seen for those frames state that "up to a 3" diameter exhaust can be used" so that would be something else that you would want to ask them over the phone before making a purchase, and also at the time of purchase, and make sure that you get the name of the person answering your question in case you get the frame delivered and it has not been altered to your liking and to your needs. ;)

yeah i will cuz its gonna cost a pretty penny to do and it better be up to specs i want so imma probly call all 4 of these shops and see becuz this idea of a rolling chassis complete with discs and everything would be sweet but i want double adjustable coils as u and the other fellow said ill check the protouring section as well
 

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so imma probly call all 4 of these shops and see
YES! :yes: That's a good idea. If you get the same answer from all four places, then you'll know. If you get 2 or three conflicting answers, I'd stay away if I were you. let us know what you hear from these places in this same thread. It can serve as valuable info to others here who might be considering the same thing as you are.:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
yes for sure it may take some time but i sure will cause its a hassle trying to figure this out
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
yeah thats deffinetly a nice looking frame and i will be calling those guys as well when i get round to calling the others and get this frame thing going
 

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I have seen the roadster shop chassis first hand and it is a nice piece.
 

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Hard to tell from the pics, but the exhaust goes above the rear end on this roadster shop chassis on a 64 Chevelle. I'm not sure if you need to be a member to view this thread or not. Also notice it's not a 9", looks like 10 or 12 bolt chevy.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=31175&page=3
Are you sure about that? It doesn't look like that's possible judging by these pics here found in that same thread on pages 1 and 2. Just take a look at these two pics below keeping in mind that the rear end housing assembly will need room for atleast 2 or 3 inches of compression without the axle tubes banging into the tailpipes.....





 
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