[BillyGman]

The reason that I want to hear your opinions on this is due to the fact that I'm sitting here in pain because of a bad car accident that I got into which involved another driver well in his 80's (86 years old to be exact). I was traveling on a main road 2 weeks ago when this guy pulled right out in front of me at the very last second from a side street as if though I wasn't even there. His view wasn't obstructed by anything either.

I had absolutely no time to stop, nor to even think about steering around him, so my car T-boned his, and very hard at that. I have pretty quick reflexes, and yet it happened so quick that I barely had enough time to just get my foot on the brake pedal. I was moving at about 40 MPH however, even though my 2001 car did not have anti-lock brakes, the skid marks my tires left were only about 15 feet long. I really didn't have any time at all to even slow the car down before it collided with his car, let alone stop it. So I hit him real hard, and unfortunately he died. I feel bad, but not guilty since it was clearly his fault.

I'm fortunate that I lived through that collision, and w/out any broken bones. Both vehicles were totalled out. But since then I've been thinking about how dangerous it can be with people in their 80's and 90's behind the wheel of motor vehicles. Teenagers are charged very high premiums by the auto insurance companies because of their "high risk" factor, but what about people over 80 years old? Do you think that they're just as much of a "high risk" while behind the wheel than teenagers are? I understand that at least some of them have to drive to go shopping for food and such, but shouldn't people be tested by the motor vehicle department on a yearly basis once they reach 70 years old? What do you guys think?

 

[Bob West]

How about drivers on cellphones, no matter the age?

 

[stock48]

How about drivers on cellphones, no matter the age?

I totally agree.

 

[JJ'65]

Well, you're certainly not an unbiased observer.

You can be sure that the probabilities are already reflected in the insurance premiums charged for teenaged children and elderly citizens.

Old folks are mostly well aware that they are not bulletproof; and are therefore careful drivers, which can't be said for many kids.

If the other driver had been a drunk, what would be your question? How about a teenager? Maybe an illegal alien?

The point is... do you collectively punish a whole class of taxpaying citizens who have contributed over their lifetimes to this great country that you and I live in, because a few might make a mistake?

 

[Eric68]

Sorry to hear about your accident Billy, hope you heal up quick too. Sad to hear an old timer pass on because of a driving mistake too -- bet his family is upset about that.

I am one that believes a good solution would be a reflex test of some type for old timers (maybe for everyone?) along with a Doctors note that states they are good enough health to drive. Maybe starting at age 80?

I happen to like talking with the old folks -- great wisdom and life experiences to learn from, unfortunately though, many can't and shouldn't drive. Maybe make the young kids with speeding tickets drive the old timers around as community service? LOL -- wouldn't that be ironic.

A friend of mine was following a very senior citizen who was driving very slow. The driver stopped at a stop sign and never took off. So he put his car in park and walked up to the the driver's window. The guy's head was down and looked like he was having some medical trouble so he taps on the window -- turns out when he tapped on the window the guy woke up. He just fell asleep . . . middle of the day too.

 

[BillyGman]

How about drivers on cellphones, no matter the age?

Yes, absolutely. At least there have been laws in some states adopted against that activity, however I think that such laws are difficult to enforce. The thing about people in their 80's is that even with the select few who are not senile, their eyesight, reflexes, and hearing have still suffered great losses.

My co-worker just told me about a newspaper story that he recently read, where an elderly man was pulled over by a police officer because he was all over the road and was suspected to be drunk. But he wasn't drunk, but senile. The officer asked him to get out of the car, and while the two of them were speaking, another car was involved in an accident merely 200 feet down the road.

The elderly man was instructed by the police officer to get back in his car and wait there for the officer to return while he made sure that everyone in the accident was OK. But the elderly man instead got into the police cruiser thinking that it was his car, and he drove off.

Later on that day police arrived at the man's home, and found him there. They asked him what he did with the police cruiser, and the guy stated that he didn't know what they were talking about. They asked him where his car was, and he said that it's parked in the garage, so they asked him to open the garage door, and when he did, there was the police cruiser right inside. And this guy was driving around on the public roads legally.

Drunk drivers are just as much of a hazard, but they're not drunk every minute of every day that they're behind the wheel, like elderly people are hindered every minute that they're behind the wheel.

 

[Dean]

Young-unexperienced drivers simply because there are a lot more of them.

BUT, I came within inches of being hit head-on by a middle aged guy on a cell phone just yesterday.

 

[Wolfplace]

I totally agree.

X2

What difference does it make how old the person is?
Stupid is stupid, it knows no age barrier

That said, all of us have had a brain fade once or twice in our lifetime,,,, some of us more than others,,,,
I could go on about Harley's at 2am & stupid stuff I did,,, it is just some of us were lucky & lived to fall over another day,,

In any event, glad you were not hurt Billy & am sorry to hear the other gentleman did not fare as well

 

[Terry krook]

First, Glad you are going to be okay.
When My Dad turned 80 he got a letter from either ICBC, (insurance corp of British Columbia) or the Dept. of motor vehicles asking him to come in for a road and eye test. Dad only drove when he had to, and knew that his ability to drive was not what it used to be. He decided on his own that it would be best for everyone if surrendered his license. We were really happy he did.
Here in B.C., we have what I believe they call a graduated license for new drivers. If they get a speeding ticket or any kind of ticket for doing something stupid in their first year, they lose their licence for a while. Dependeing on the severity of the offense, it could be 3 months to a year.
I understand why proving you are capable might be an insult to an 80 year old driver that has never been involved in an accident that has his/her fault, but both minors and seniors should have to prove that they are capeable in my opinion. You reach 16 you have to prove you are capeable. You reach 80, you should have to prove you still are. If it were manditory, I think you would see a lot more seniors turning in their license like Dad did. Maybe this elderly Gentleman would still be with his family.

 

[Sid Coleman]

The point is... do you collectively punish a whole class of taxpaying citizens who have contributed over their lifetimes to this great country that you and I live in, because a few might make a mistake?

It's NOT punishing them to have them take a competence test every 4 years or so. AND-the test should be comprehensive enough and geared to the difficulties they face, as has been statisticlly proven: Older people DO NOT multitask well. Give them a distraction or 2, and their ability to drive goes away very quickly. That being said...Heck, I'd vote for EVERYONE to take a driving competence test every 4 years. Maybe reinforce the rules of the road to some who desperately need it.

Billy, sorry to hear about your mishap-hope things heal quickly.

 

[BillyGman]

Thanks for everyone's opinion and also to those of you who had the thoughtful words for my situation as well. Allow me to explain that my statements are by no means meant to be disrespectful to the elderly at all. This guy was a WWII veteran (just like my dad was) and it's a shame that even though he survived that terrible and fierce war in the 1940's, he died in this tragic car wreck.

And as it's been already pointed out, to get a little bit more strict with drivers' licenses concerning people in their 80's hasn't anything to do with "punishing" them as someone said. I look at it this way: auto insurance customers are mandated in many states to pay considerably higher premiums for merely having anyone under their roof who is a licensed driver under the age of 25 years old. Furthermore, in many states, drunk drivers have their license suspended for 6 months for the first or second offense for merely being pulled over while intoxicated (and rightly so) and they can lose their license for one year or even permanently for the third offense.

But many people in their 80's unfortunately have mental states or capacities which function as if though they're intoxicated 24 hours a day. So what's the difference? Should elderly people be able to drive indefinitely w/out being checked and thereby endangering others' lives simply because we respect them? BTW, although I do not agree with Canadian firearm laws, I must say that those Canadian restrictions concerning drivers' licenses that were described make a lot of sense to me. And also BTW, I agree how much cel phone use while behind the wheel is out of control. I once even saw a guy on a cell phone while driving his motorcycle down a main street! It's just crazy. but like I said, even though it's difficult to enforce, atleast there are now laws written in the books prohibiting cell phone use. So although it may be a small step w/out the enforcement, it still is a step in the right direction. What about drivers in their 80's?

 

[BowtieAaron]

teens try to show off..
ppl on cell phones of all ages are oblivious to everything..
elders dont have the reflexes, judgement or sight they used to.

all are high risk. but i say, elderly people are highest risk. not all teens are high risk drivers. i have bee driving 4 years, and have yet had one accident or speeding ticket.


aaron

 

[Keith Tedford]

I don't know too many people over 80 who are still driving. Around here they have to take a driver's test, and that is a good idea. Luckily, my folks knew when it was time to quit. Talk about not being seen, just get on a motorcycle. No one sees you. My wife and I had bikes for about 3 years and ended up trading them both on a nice '67 Chevelle. When we took the motorcycle driving course, the first thing the guy wrote on the blackboard was "You are invisible". It's true. People look and bikes don't even register on their brains because they are looking for cars and trucks. Police reports back it up. I think I would put my money more with old, slow, and deliberate than young, inexperienced, and foolish, but they all can get you hurt, or worse. I would think that cell phone use is the biggest problem.

 

[BillyGman]

Because of the motor vehicle licensing laws in Canada, I am quite sure that the elderly behind the wheel is much less prevalent, and much less of a problem than it is here in the USA. Talk to anyone who resides in Florida, and they will tell you about how dangerous elderly people are behind the wheel, and unlike drunk drivers, and people who occasionally show off, it's all the time from the moment they start up the engine to the moment they shut it down.

Another guy I work with was telling me about his elderly uncle who has been known to stop his car at the end of the driveway while backing out, in order to then get out of the car, walk out onto the street to look both ways to see if any cars are coming, and then walk back to the car, put her in reverse and go for it. This type of driving is all the time and not occasional since it's due to a mental state rather than an emotional show-off or to drunkenness.

 

[kirkwoodken]

I haven't had a wreck in 45 years and my insurance premiums have never gone down.

I don't eat and drive. I don't drink and drive. I don't talk on the phone and drive. I don't do drugs and drive. If you pay attention to what you are doing, it goes a long way toward keeping everything unbroken and in the right place.

I've had motorcycles since 1968. Never had a street wreck on those, either. Same advice as above. People will run over you if you don't ride defensively. Being cool but dead is not cool.

All metal is replacable. Glad you weren't hurt. I had a similar wreck when I was twenty. Some old fart pulled out in front of me after stopping for a sign. I didn't have a stop sign. He didn't have a drivers license. I got a ticket and he didn't. That's how it goes when you are the kid. Give the old man a break, but screw the kid. Doesn't make any difference whether your right or wrong.

My first car was a 55 HT with stock duel exhaust. When I would drive into Kirkwood, the neighboring town, I would always be stopped by some cop with nothing better to do, and he would want to "hear those pipes". I'd rev it up and make no noise, and he'd say he was "keeping an eye on me". Today, Harleys with straight pipes ride through Kirkwood every day. No problem. There is a Harley store in Kirkwood, so it's good for business. They always look the other way when it's good for business.

 

[Dean]

Just my personal feelings but I think we all should push for mandatory annual driving tests for anyone over 75 or so in our states.(only 4 1/2 years away for me)

It shouldn't be considered punishment to convince old timers and their families that they are no longer safe-alert drivers but should be considered doing them and everyone else a favor and a service.

Like I said before, there aren't really that many older folks when compared to young-inexperienced drivers or drunk drivers for that matter.

Insurance premiums are based on risk involved which is based on statistics so that in itself shouldn't be a deciding factor.

I know you have to feel very bad about the gentleman not surviving as anyone would, BUT it is not your fault that his family didn't take the necessary steps that should have been taken.

 

[MrBill66Malibu]

Billy,

I wish you a speedy recovery and I'm sorry you are in this situation.

My Mom is 74 and still driving, it is something we talk about often and I continually watch her as she drives. If my brother and I feel it is time to turn in her license she will gladly do it.

I would hope all of us follow some type of check and balance list within their families because we cannot leave it up to the DMV, they cannot handle what they are already doing.

As for older folks that don't have families or one's that live close by, I really don't have a solution.

 

[BillyGman]

Just my personal feelings but I think we all should push for mandatory annual driving tests for anyone over 75 or so in our states.(only 4 1/2 years away for me)

It shouldn't be considered punishment to convince old timers and their families that they are no longer safe-alert drivers but should be considered doing them and everyone else a favor and a service.

Like I said before, there aren't really that many older folks when compared to young-inexperienced drivers or drunk drivers for that matter.

Insurance premiums are based on risk involved which is based on statistics so that in itself shouldn't be a deciding factor.

I know you have to feel very bad about the gentleman not surviving as anyone would, BUT it is not your fault that his family didn't take the necessary steps that should have been taken.

Dean, I find your words in the above post to be very applicable and accurate. And coming from someone who is your age, those are some weighty words as well. Thanks for your input.

EDIT: Bill, I understand and agree w/what you've stated about the primary responsibility being that of the families of such elderly drivers. It's because I know that many families don't concern themselves with their mothers',fathers', nor grandparents' driving skills that I believe that motor vehicle licensing rules should be stepped up for the edlerly. It isn't their fault, and it's nobody's decision nor their choice to get old. But there needs to be some type of check in play for the sake of safety. This man that I hit should not ne dead today, and I should not be in the pain that I am in. Tighter restrictions might not prevent everything bad from happening, but it sure would cut it down. I know of others who had similar experiences. And BTW, I commend you for keeping an eye on your mom's driving.

 

[Harold Sutton]

Sorry about the wreck Billy. I know that most eldery people lose their ability to distinguish if they have lost their driving skills long before they finally loose their driving privilages. My mother would not acknowledge her inability to drive safely, even after a fall broke her hip and she could no longer walk. She became outraged when she was told she could no longer drive. Her mind is totally gone now, no thanks in part to her consumption of SOY products. Your body needs some cholesterol for your brain to funtion normally. The Medical comunity has brainwashed everyone with the myth that cholesterol is all bad. I'd rather die early than go crazy like the last two generations of my mother's family have. Yearly testing of ones driving abilities should begin somewhere around your 70th birthday. I have always thought that drivers licenses are too easy to get. I'd like to see the first license not be available until a child's 18 birthday and only then if they have a high school diploma. That would make safer drivers and school would be a hell of a lot more important to all kids. The one thing you can't change or test for is attitude. Maybe a phychological examination would be a good idea as well for all people applying for a drivers license. I too hate cell phones in cars and would like to see them banished to the trunk so there would be far fewer distracted drivers on the road. A few nights ago a city policeman, who works in another town about 60 miles away, was killed when he plowed into the back of a semi which had pulled off the road to check his map. I think the cop fell asleep, as it was past midnight, and he was just following taillights until he crashed. They're trying like hell to blame the parked semi but state law is clear on this point and it was the policemans fault as the semi was completely off the driving lanes on the shoulder and completely stopped. All of us wish you better driving experiences in the future as "accidents never prove who's right, only who's left". The state of Florida has instituted a mandatory drivers test to weed out drivers who simply can't drive safely. One man became totally aggravated when the driving instructor took his license after he couldn't even tell her which vehicle he came to the examiner's office in. There were only six cars parked in front of the office and he couldn't tell her which one was his.

 

[BillyGman]

Sorry about the wreck Billy. I know that most eldery people lose their ability to distinguish if they have lost their driving skills long before they finally loose their driving privilages. My mother would not acknowledge her inability to drive safely, even after a fall broke her hip and she could no longer walk. She became outraged when she was told she could no longer drive. Her mind is totally gone now, no thanks in part to her consumption of SOY products. Your body needs some cholesterol for your brain to funtion normally. The Medical comunity has brainwashed everyone with the myth that cholesterol is all bad. I'd rather die early than go crazy like the last two generations of my mother's family have. Yearly testing of ones driving abilities should begin somewhere around your 70th birthday. I have always thought that drivers licenses are too easy to get. I'd like to see the first license not be available until a child's 18 birthday and only then if they have a high school diploma. That would make safer drivers and school would be a hell of a lot more important to all kids. The one thing you can't change or test for is attitude. Maybe a phychological examination would be a good idea as well for all people applying for a drivers license. I too hate cell phones in cars and would like to see them banished to the trunk so there would be far fewer distracted drivers on the road. A few nights ago a city policeman, who works in another town about 60 miles away, was killed when he plowed into the back of a semi which had pulled off the road to check his map. I think the cop fell asleep, as it was past midnight, and he was just following taillights until he crashed. They're trying like hell to blame the parked semi but state law is clear on this point and it was the policemans fault as the semi was completely off the driving lanes on the shoulder and completely stopped. All of us wish you better driving experiences in the future as "accidents never prove who's right, only who's left". The state of Florida has instituted a mandatory drivers test to weed out drivers who simply can't drive safely. One man became totally aggravated when the driving instructor took his license after he couldn't even tell her which vehicle he came to the examiner's office in. There were only six cars parked in front of the office and he couldn't tell her which one was his.

Some excellent points there Harold. A very interesting post in deed. :thumbsup: