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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:( Some of you'll remember I had a problem with water in the oil with the freshened motor. I thought I had found the problem with the intake gasket leaking. I was installing the new carb I got from Tom (thanks Tom) on Saturday and while running the car, setting the mixture screws I noticed the water level down in the radiator, I topped it off and noticed it continued to drop, also had water vapor coming out the drivers side pipe, no oil in the radiator and no bubbles either. I knew that I still had a problem, called the builder and pulled the motor out. I took it back to him on Monday, he called today after pressure testing it, it had a pin hole in #3 cylinder about 3/4 down in the cylinder. He is going to sleeve that cylinder I should have it back by middle of next week and have it ready to go in plenty of time for first points race in April. He is doing all the labor for free, I have to buy a sleeve (about 28.00) head and pan gaskets, he said the bearings look like it has never been run yet, it just has 4 passes on it anyway. I'm not sure how much power it was down with the leak in that cylinder, just glad we found the problem before the season started. I hope to get another 2 years out of this block and if I continue to race on a weekly basis, my next investment will be a Dart block.
 

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Well, sorry to hear about the troubles, but glad ya'll are on top of it. :thumbsup: Did I hear someone say Dart block? Hmmmm, 565 would be nice. :D

I'm glad the bearings look good. I've had water in the oil twice now, on the dyno, and the bearings did not look "new". The first engine the head studs didn't seal well and the rear main started to flake.
 

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Hate to hear it....but good news is it can be fixed....

To me one of the best *windows* to how happy a motor is, is the bearings. If the bearings all look like *they've never been run* then that is one happy motor. Things are working well, clearances are right, oil pan is a good one, no detonation...all is good!

When you have a block like that........ it's worth a little surgery to save it!!


Good luck!


JIM
 

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Dang Bob...you're getting really good at R&R that motor. :(
Glad you found the problem.
 

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Bob,

Good to hear that's what it is and not the block.

Tom
 

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Bob, sounds like to got this pull/install motor thing down to a science. How long does it take you to pull it? Took me about 2.5 hours but I have to deal with the PIA shifter and clutch linkage. Going back in takes much longer it seems.

Seems like these motors can be pulled before one is done complaining about having to do it~
 

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Good to hear the problem is found BOB!!
Well, a friend/machinist always told me, the more sleeves in a block the faster they go!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had the motor out in 2 hrs 15 min. leaving the transmission in the car. Got word today the sleeve is back in, just finished boring it, had to hone it and start putting it back together, said I could possibly pick it up tomorrow evening or Friday for sure. I'll be back in business soon!!!
 

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Well at least you found it. Do you think it has anything to do with the block being .100 over? How stable will the sleeve be with that much material already taken out? I'm just asking because my only experience with a block that far over, we filled the water jackets for stability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Its hard to say Ray. He said he found water pretty quick when boring for the sleeve, then mic'd the cylinder next to it and it was .250 thick, go figure. I had heard the xxx289 casting was one of the better castings. He said the hole was about the size of a pencil lead and was about 1/4 above the top of the piston at BDC. I had an old 402 block a few years back bored .125 and never had any issues with it except overheating in traffic. Like I said earlier, I hope to get a couple years out of this combo and if keep racing I will go to an aftermarket block. I personally have never watched a block get sleeved so I dont know what all it entails. It will be pressure tested after assembly and back in the car it goes. I guess sonic checking is/was an option but not sure anyone around here does it. Any more problems and I'll just park it and get a new block. I can't really complain, I got a good two years out of it.
 

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Sorry man, but IMHO time to find a new machine shop!
K,
Why do you say that ???? :( If there was no real reason to pressure test the block, it is not done on a regular basis. Have you actually honed a cylinder yourself ??? Unless the pin hole was very obvious, there is no way you know it is there. If Bob was not having any problems before, and did not specifically request a pressure test, then why should he be looking for a new machine shop ????? Personally, I think the guy was pretty nice in doing the sleeve for nothing. I would probably have done the same, but there are plenty of shops that would not have, and I dont know that they were really obligated to do so. If they had happened to notice the pinhole somehow while doing the block the first time, Bob would have had to pay to get the sleeve installed.

I am sorry, I just dont understand your thinking that the shop did something wrong and needs to be canned :confused:

Just my opinion,
 

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I think the shop is going above and beyond by doing the work for free. You don't find many that stand behind their work, even if they are at fault. Especially on a race engine. And, the hole may not have even been there at the time they finished honing. Could easily have been a thin spot that developed into a hole after running it. JMHO.
 

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Bob,

Sucks for sure but its the best scenario for that problem really. Hope you get it back up soon. Im confused though, i try to make a point to read all your post. You say it had 4 passes on it? is this a different engine from last year or you just pulled and freshened it from last year? Anyway good luck on reinstall and testing.


Shawn
 

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:( Some of you'll remember I had a problem with water in the oil with the freshened motor.
Isn't this the same shop that left a pair of diaganol cutters in the lifter valley during the first build? Isn't this the same block that ended up with a wiped out thrust bearing just recently?

Maybe I'm just being picky :rolleyes: I had my local machinist build a .030" over 454 for me in September of 1999. The bottom end of that engine saw many thousands of street miles and over 400 passes before I ever even considered freshening it up 4 years later. When it was disassembled it could have EASILY gone back together with the same set of bearings. All the clearances were still spot on and the cylinder walls showed very little signs of wear. In fact all that was required was to clean the block, a .0015 hone and a new set of freeze plugs to get the block ready for the next round of upgrades (+2 pts of compression, more cam, etc....). That same .030" over 454 is running in a 9 second Camaro to this day with not one single failure since 1999.
Have you actually honed a cylinder yourself ???
Have I ever honed a cylinder? No. But what does that have to do with recognizing poor machining/assembly practices? I would never consider running a block with .125" overbore without at least partially filling it, and I can promise you the machinists I use wouldn't dare send one like that out of their shop.

Bill,

I understand what you're saying and I agree that pressure testing a block isn't SOP. That said, I think that the types of problems Bob has experienced with this engine are cause for concern. If all the work that has been done over the past couple of years was done by the same shop, then I personally would be looking for another shop. I do all my own assembly work. I verify all the maching that is done to the block (deck height, cylinder bore/taper, rod/main bores, etc...). I do so to avoid problems like this:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166965

If I ever experience a problem related to assembly I have only myself to blame. I can appreciate the fact that you would come to your fellow machinists/builders defense, but I think the facts here speak for themself.

Bob, this post is in no way intended to insult you. As you know I consider you a friend. I'm just trying to say that with as many problems as you've had it might be worthwhile considering another shop.

JMHO.
 

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dang bob if wasnt for bad luck you woulnd have any luck.im glad you are getting it worked out and you will be racing soon.
 
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