Team Chevelle banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just an update in case anyone cares haha. After speaking to Mark Jones, he said the problem is my battery cables and connections. He recommended "Beldin" 0-1ga cables from NAPA and to make sure there's no paint where the starter touches the block and where the NEG cable touches the block and to use star washers.

SO, I went to NAPA and got 2 factory sealed 1ga cables. A 45" and a 24". In taking my 80's 4ga cables with the crappy terminals with the 2 little 7/16" bolts on top. The friggin POS cable basically fell out of the terminal when I pulled on it, haha. WTF. I should sue my mechanics. I also found my distributor loose and my secondary fuel inlet nut on my Holley carb loose too. UGH! And there was paint where the NEG cable touched the block where the long alternator bolt goes at the bottom. So In took that off and used a star washer there.

Anyways, I replaced the 2 cables and voila!!!! I ran her and tuned on the idle mixture screws of my carb and looked at the timing for a bit while she got nice and hot. She was hanging out at 165-170 like usual and I turned her off. Waited 5mins and usually sweated the restart. And while standing outside the door I reached in and turned the key with no other help and vrooom she cranked right over with a certain unexplainable ooomph behind her like I haven't heard haha. I was starving so I had to go eat and I haven't gotten a chance to run my 24" braided cable from the engine to the frame yet, but I'll be doing that too later

I wanted to try the cables before I ordered a mini starter or starter blankie to see what exactly helped and I think I might be good with just the new cables. I drove around doing some errands beating the hell out of her and laying down more rubber than I ever have haha, and never had the slow crank again all day in any parking lot.

Thoughts on being fine the way it is or should I just get the mini starter to help even more? I could use the $50 for other things ya know. Thanks for the advise to all and to Mark Jones!! :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,487 Posts
If it continues to start fine, don't bother switching out the starter. Once the one you have now goes bad, then take the time to get a mini starter. The mini starters are better, but the one you have now may be fine for a long while.

Good job on finding your mechanics sloppy work. You have to eagle-eye mechanics. Even if they have a good reputation, things happen. The phone rings off the hook, they've got a back-log, someone called in sick, their wife is giving them trouble... etc. And in the end it's not their car. It's yours. No matter how high their shop-rate, they will never love it like you do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,536 Posts
The heat from the headers will eventually take out your starter. When that happens, or more importantly, WHEN that happens, ??? It would be best to get that mini starter with a shield just so you won't get stranded somewhere, and have to worry about it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yea, when I was changing the POS (+) cable I really stared at the closeness of my new 1 7/8" ceramic headers to the solenoid and it was like 3/8". So I will eventually change it. But she's starting like a champ and I'm getting a good vibe from her.

Just got back from my last cruise around town before the rain starts tomorrow and she did fine. Thanks again all!!!!!
:beers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,906 Posts
Starter wrap is a good idea. There is a lot of heat around the starter, especially if you are running headers.
header pipes cool off after only a few minutes.. how long does the wrap hold the extra heat inside the starter, especially with that huge lump of hot iron called the "engine block" being less than an inch away from the starter motor?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,919 Posts
IMO you may be better off wrapping the HEADER around the starter area.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
FWIW,my 454 has 200 lbs. of cylinder pressure and I have never,ever had a starting issue in the 10 years I have been running the combo. Stock GM high torque starter,repro battery cables and 25* of base timing.Headers too.No heat wrap.No starter shield. Spins over like an 8 to 1 350 with 198* duration cam :D
Wow 4 speed, that's cool. I will get a mini starter in a few weeks. The idea of higher torque at half the draw is nice. But it amazed me how much better the problem was aleviated by the 1ga cables!! We'll how it goes when I tinker with the timing when the rain lets up this weekend. At 16 initial, it should still be ok, but only one way to find out haha. :thumbsup:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
IMO you may be better off wrapping the HEADER around the starter area.
Hey Dan, I actually have 1.5" wide header wrap from my motorcycle racing days and I tried to wrap the tube that runs right near the solenoid and it was too hard. I couldn't get it done. With the A-arm hardware on one side and the other header tubes blocking access from my hands to wrap it around, I gave up. Maybe if I took the header off but that's another mini-project I guess.
 

·
In Memoriam
66 El Camino 57 Chevy pickup 2004 Tahoe
Joined
·
29,419 Posts
there's factory heat shield available. anybody got a pic of it? I have it on my car but it's too buried to get a pic of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
Don't drink the punch from all the magazines and TV shows out there. I have also been running a factory starter with a brown top high torque solenoid in my almost 11:1 454 with 1 7/8 inch ceramic Hookers for 6 or 7 years, which is the same set up that was in the car with a mild 10:1 350 in the beginning, and all the engines between. I'm running 0 guage wires, the only difference is I have a Ford solenoid on mine. I had the same problems when I had the 350 in it, and after the afore mentioned changes, I have not had a problem. Good luck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,962 Posts
A lot of Chevies were known the have heat soak problems that gave grief upon attempted restart. The Ford solonoid trick works for that.

In 1967/68, Chevrolet Canada offered an exclusive option, RPO Z46 Cold Cranking Equipment. It included h.d. battery, h.d. alternator, h.d. battery cables (!) and an ultra high starter. It sounds like it can benefit both hot and cold starts.

Thanks for the update! I picked up repro battery cables for my Chevelle from Lectric Limited. With the benefit of your experience I will proceed on mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,298 Posts
Just an update in case anyone cares haha. After speaking to Mark Jones, he said the problem is my battery cables and connections. He recommended "Beldin" 0-1ga cables from NAPA and to make sure there's no paint where the starter touches the block and where the NEG cable touches the block and to use star washers.

SO, I went to NAPA and got 2 factory sealed 1ga cables. A 45" and a 24". In taking my 80's 4ga cables with the crappy terminals with the 2 little 7/16" bolts on top. The friggin POS cable basically fell out of the terminal when I pulled on it, haha. WTF. I should sue my mechanics. I also found my distributor loose and my secondary fuel inlet nut on my Holley carb loose too. UGH! And there was paint where the NEG cable touched the block where the long alternator bolt goes at the bottom. So In took that off and used a star washer there.

Anyways, I replaced the 2 cables and voila!!!! I ran her and tuned on the idle mixture screws of my carb and looked at the timing for a bit while she got nice and hot. She was hanging out at 165-170 like usual and I turned her off. Waited 5mins and usually sweated the restart. And while standing outside the door I reached in and turned the key with no other help and vrooom she cranked right over with a certain unexplainable ooomph behind her like I haven't heard haha. I was starving so I had to go eat and I haven't gotten a chance to run my 24" braided cable from the engine to the frame yet, but I'll be doing that too later

I wanted to try the cables before I ordered a mini starter or starter blankie to see what exactly helped and I think I might be good with just the new cables. I drove around doing some errands beating the hell out of her and laying down more rubber than I ever have haha, and never had the slow crank again all day in any parking lot.

Thoughts on being fine the way it is or should I just get the mini starter to help even more? I could use the $50 for other things ya know. Thanks for the advise to all and to Mark Jones!! :thumbsup:
==============================

Hi Sergio,glad to hear you got it squared away so leave it alone at this point.

It was very likely the loose battery cable you found and paint issues at battery/starater/ground connection points that caused your hot start issues.

If your running a fresh not tired gm hi trq starter with heat shield (heat shied is A MUST FOR STARTER LONGJEVITY) & hi perf hi temp solenoid/good strong battery/decent alt 55-61amp if not many additional electrical items have been added/good clean connections even with stock battery & starter cables/ the stock gm starting system will reliably start a street perf bbc/sbc with up to apoporox 11.0 comp even when running 18-20 deg base timing with an aftermarket perf cam.

But if you have 1 issue like a tired hi trk starter or a weak low CCA battery thats when you will have hot start issues for sure along with if there is too much paint or loose connections at gnd/starter/charging system connection points .

I run approx 19-20 deg base timing with just under 10.0 comp with a mild cam & farily high cranking comp it starts just fine even when hot with a pure stock starting system with GM hi trq starter.

Have also cured many a hot start issue with chevy's/GM V8's in general over the past 40 yrs working on them by correcting any of the above mentioned issues with 100% success everytime and have never had to resort to going mimi starter requiring in some cases wiring mods additonal shimming etc.

Bottom line is when you properly restore/setup a stock gm V8 starting system with fresh GM hi trq starter & fresh powerfull battery along with doing the other things i stated above that will hot start any sbc/bbc street perf motor without resorting to aftermarket mini starters.

Scott
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top