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To Drill or not to Drill that is the question

  • No, the hole was specific to the way the old kit routed fluid and/or applied pressure

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,
Getting ready to build the T400 for my car ( well my buddy Larry ). I purchased the Premium Hughes rebuild kit with Kolene steels and Red alto clutches along with their forward pattern Manual Valve body. I got the direct drum ( early model ) and 34 element sprag ready to go as well. You guys may recall the whole reason for this tranny build is that at the top of 1st my current trans binds up terrible. Through information here and consulting the directions we discovered that the 4l80E drum used didnt have the bleed hole drilled via the instructions that came with the transgo kit.

Now this Hughes valve body instructions pamphlet says nothing about drilling the drum, I SO REALLY dont want the same problem is that something I should do anyway? Ill handle any problem with dignity except the same one ;)

If all goes well with the trans this week i plan to order a new converter next week and get this puppy ready to make some test-n-tune passes. Im actually very anxious to get to drive it.

Anyone have any experience with Hughes kits of Valve bodies?
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

Can't help you on the valvebody (although i'm pretty damn sure you need the hole...) - but we had an interesting find on the clutches. We were buying the expensive clutches - red altos - and found that after a season they were showing signs of burning.

Found out what Coan use in their 2000+ horsepower TH400 - borg warner with the waffle pattern. WAY cheaper and they work great and outlast the red altos also. Coan also repackages them and upsells them at a higher price as their "2000hp clutches" but they have the borg part number still on them ha ha ha!!
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

but we had an interesting find on the clutches. We were buying the expensive clutches - red altos - and found that after a season they were showing signs of burning.
Those clutches work extremely well. That's all Sid/Keith Neil use in their turbo trannies.
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

which ones ken, the red altos or the borg warner waffle pattern?

I was saying down with the altos up up with the borgs...
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

There is absolutely no benefits of using Kolene steels in a GMTH400 transmission.Alto reds should only be used in the direct clutch at power levels over 1000 horsepower and only when heavy return springs are used for added clutch piston release assistance for use with a transbrake or with a poorly designed transbrake valvebody that has a large delay applying the reverse clutch or transmission brake(very common with poor designs).grooved borg warner waffles used in Allison applications will quickly shed and clog the main filter and governer screen in street usage causing operational issues.They are junk in my opinion.Iwas informed they have a non shedding material now in waffle style but the waffle pattern in itself reduces the contact area between the friction and steel on application .Although the waffle may funnel oil across the friction face when applied the direct clutch does not have an overheating problem warranting additional face lube oil,and this additional oil also increases clutch drag when then the pack is not applied in first and second gears.Burning of the direct clutch pack is almost always the effects of reduced apply pressure or a mechanical malfunction (unless we have frictions that ran with contaminated oil or have racked up 100,000 miles of city driving where the number of ratio changes for the operational history is greater than that for standard usage.plain tan frictions work the best in all applications up to 2000 horsepower except maybe for off road Baja trucks but that is not applied here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

Thanks for the response. Would you mind answering about the drum you seem to be very knowledgeable?
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

no transbrake ,no hole.dont use the heavy return springs either regardless of what you are being told,unless you have a t brake
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

There is absolutely no benefits of using Kolene steels in a GMTH400 transmission.Alto reds should only be used in the direct clutch at power levels over 1000 horsepower and only when heavy return springs are used for added clutch piston release assistance for use with a transbrake or with a poorly designed transbrake valvebody that has a large delay applying the reverse clutch or transmission brake(very common with poor designs).grooved borg warner waffles used in Allison applications will quickly shed and clog the main filter and governer screen in street usage causing operational issues.They are junk in my opinion.Iwas informed they have a non shedding material now in waffle style but the waffle pattern in itself reduces the contact area between the friction and steel on application .Although the waffle may funnel oil across the friction face when applied the direct clutch does not have an overheating problem warranting additional face lube oil,and this additional oil also increases clutch drag when then the pack is not applied in first and second gears.Burning of the direct clutch pack is almost always the effects of reduced apply pressure or a mechanical malfunction (unless we have frictions that ran with contaminated oil or have racked up 100,000 miles of city driving where the number of ratio changes for the operational history is greater than that for standard usage.plain tan frictions work the best in all applications up to 2000 horsepower except maybe for off road Baja trucks but that is not applied here.
My buddy has about 15 Th400's running around on the streets/strips locally here and nobody has had filter clogging problems with the waffle pattern borgs. I will find out what the part number is so we are not talking apples and oranges - he may be using the second ones you mentioned - whichever they are they matched the part number on the parts he got from Coan. He has not had a set come out "spent" and the cars range from big inch nitrous engines in low 7 second cars to nine second bracket cars that make hundreds of passes per year.

I know he always needs the hole in the drum with the TCI transbrake valvebodies... can't comment on others because that's all he has used in all of the above.

You seem to be very knowledgeable - what's your take on running 7 clutches in the direct? He machines down the pistons and runs 6 or 7. On the high horsepower (over 1000hp) units he uses the expensive coan billet drum and super sprag and the good shafts.

Hey i think we got the right guy to answer your tranny questions! http://www.ckperformance.com/

New Yawk eh? I got my glide for my chevelle from Eddie Alessi at Select in NY.
 

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Re: Turbo 400 build, JakeShoe others have Drum question Hughes kit and VB

forunate for myself and my customers we dont use other companies brakes drums or shafts,we design manufacture and test in house with 3 well equipt haas cnc maching centers.frictions however are a different story although the information i have presented is based on countless years of in car testing with the smartest designed th400 valve bodies known to the industry being loaded by very aggressive powerplants.as far as clutch counts read up on our builups on the site .there is very easy to understand info as well as clutch pack count and type used for each application.be sure to check out competition components.ed alessi is an old grouch with an overpriced product hahahah.
 
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