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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Why? Is it a Model # thing or what? My 65 SS (non Z-16) has a similar transmission.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0462565103&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Below are factory options stated in the auction:
· 396-375 HP “IX” code engine (factory stampings – see photos)
· M20 4 speed transmission (correct for Z16 only)
· 12 bolt 3.31 ratio rear end (original Z16 only housing)
· 160 MPH speedometer (Z16 only)
· 6000 RPM tach and gauges
· AM-FM multi-plex stereo
· Dash mounted clock
· Woodgrain steering wheel
· Tilt steering column
· Remote left mirror
· Power steering
· Power drum brakes
· Bucket seats with console
· Rare mag wheel hubcaps
· Correct gold line tires
· Front and rear bumper guards

Thanx, Frank
 

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I'd have to look it up in the assembly manual to see if there are two distinct part numbers, but I don't think the Z16 used a 4-speed any different than the 4-speed (M20) used in other '65s. Many other drivetrain items are unique to the Z16, but I think the transmission is one of the exceptions.

That said, even if the Z16 used the same transmission, that transmission as installed in a Z16 would have numbers stamped into that would be unique to THAT Z16, but that doesn't mean the transmission itself is mechanically different than any other '65 M20.
 

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Could be what they mean is the M20 was the only transmission installed with the Z16 option. I have the trim tag from another Z16 with the body number just before this one, 14628. It is red with a black top as well.

One thing I don't get is body number 14628 is red/black with red interior. The sequence on the red/black with white interior car (body #14629) is 168758. According to the Z16 registry, http://www.z16chevelle.com/Z16 Registry.htm, the first previously listed red/black/red car is sequenced 168043, 715 units before this one - plus there are 4 Z16s between them and probably quite a few 'standard' V8 Malibu SS units as well, so why are these only one body number apart when there should be more body numbers between them with the same Fisher Body style?

I know body numbers are not an exact science like sequence numbers but they generally in order by style number. :confused:
 

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not saying its real or not but that is one fishy looking stamp pad
 

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Here's what I can add on this car and some of the questions / comments above:

1. This is a real Z16, no question about it. It has been on the Registry list for decades.

2. Dave Miner restored the car a few years ago. The restoration is featured in detail on the Registry website that Dave started (and that I now maintain since Dave passed away) - http://www.z16chevelle.com . The resto links are on this page: http://www.z16chevelle.com/Z16%20Red,%20Black%20vinyl%20top.htm There's lots of great info in those resto pics!

3. That is a real Z16 engine (it's just from a different Z16). And that is how all of the original, real Z16 pad stamps look. In fact, this one is neater than lots of them are! On my unrestored Z16 the last 2 or 3 digits of the VIN all overrun on top of the Tonawanda assembly stamp, and the last one is almost half way off the edge of the pad. The sloppy hand stamps were due to the fact that Tonawanda put the assembly stamp on the water pump side of the pad, and the big threaded plug in the head interfered with the application of the VIN stamp on the other side of the pad at the Kansas assembly plant. Somewhere between late March and late April of 1965, Tonawanda moved the assembly stamp on 396's to the exhaust side of the pad to eliminate that problem, so that the VIN could be stamped on the water pump side of the pad (like 66's are). I have not yet been able to pin down exactly when that change occurred.

4. Based on everything I've seen (including the trans tags on three unrestored Z16's), there was no Z16-specific transmission used in production. A special trans was proposed during engineering of the Z16's, and a part no. was issued (one digit higher than the regular 65 Muncie M-20 part no.), but it was dropped before production of the Z16's began. This is all shown in the revision notes in the assembly manual. The ACES magazine published a list of Muncie part no's awhile back that included the defunct Z16-specific part no., and that has led a lot of people to make the same mistake that is made in this eBay auction. There's even a company selling repop tags on eBay with the Z16-specific part no. that was apparently never installed in a Z16 (or any other Chevelle)!

5. On Dale's comment on the body number, as always you have a good eye! :beers: But it is legit. We have almost all the surviving Z16 body numbers in the internal Registry database. They jump up and down as you go down the list and very many of them are not in the same sequence with the VIN #'s. From the pattern of the body numbers it looks like the Kansas Fisher body plant may have built batches of Z16 bodies and shoved them aside, then pulled them back out (in reverse order) to feed to the car assembly line as Z16 units were scheduled for shipment. And there are several verified real cars that seem to be WAY out of sequence. With the uniqueness of the cars (which includes some structural body parts that are completely different from regular coupes), it may be that they had some production issues or mistakes that made some bodies get sent back through the loop for repairs or corrections, in which case they could have gotten pushed aside a second time and delayed even more.

6. This particular car is much more stunning in person than it is in the pictures. I really would have loved to buy it from Dave when he sold it, to have a "before" version (see the link in my signature below) and an "after" version of identical cars. But my money tree must have had a fungus since it could not not produce nearly that much $$$$$ when I needed it!! :(
 

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I dont know , maybe it's me, would love to have a Z16, but my 65 ss, I think looks better with full mldgs on the back quarters, and the SS emblem looks better on the quarters, but love the look of the 396 emblem on the front fenders. I ve only seen one real Z16 in my life.........hey I'm 60
 

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Jeff come to think about that stamp pad I recall learning about the Tonawanda stamp process on 65 396 Corvettes in a NCRS judging school. and some of the early cars look just like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
4. Based on everything I've seen (including the trans tags on three unrestored Z16's), there was no Z16-specific transmission used in production. A special trans was proposed during engineering of the Z16's, and a part no. was issued (one digit higher than the regular 65 Muncie M-20 part no.), but it was dropped before production of the Z16's began. This is all shown in the revision notes in the assembly manual. The ACES magazine published a list of Muncie part no's awhile back that included the defunct Z16-specific part no., and that has led a lot of people to make the same mistake that is made in this eBay auction. There's even a company selling repop tags on eBay with the Z16-specific part no. that was apparently never installed in a Z16 (or any other Chevelle)!
I guess this answers my question! All input was appreciated.
Thanx again, Frank
 

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Beautiful car from the pics...
I was going to ask if this was the one that sold at Mecum. I guess it's either a marquee car for them, or a quick flip. It's too bad it didn't get to an enthusiast. I wonder how many more times it will be flipped before it gets to an enthusiast and what price it will be.
 
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