[howsad4me]

Ok,

Reference thread from a couple years ago when I picked up a used transmission: Is this 200-4r modified for non-lockup?

I'm finally installing this transmission, hoping it works ok. I'm pretty sure I have my torque converter fully seated, but I measure a 7/8" distance from bellhousing mounting surface to TC pads. According to info I found on the internet, I see:

• GM-TH350, Powerglide=1.125” from bellhousing to the converter pads.
• GM-TH400=1.187” from bellhousing to converter pads.
• GM 700 R4, 4L60E, 200-4R=1.125” from bellhousing to converter pads.
• GM 4L80E=1.030” from bellhousing to converter pads.

Seems like I'm about 1/4" too far out. I installed a new flexplate (pioneer sold under Summit brand), and when I fit the trans to the block, the torque converter pads are touching the flexplate pads. I don't want to tighten it up, since it seems I'm missing that 3/16" gap or so...

I've been spinning/pushing on the torque converter, wiggling it, etc, but can't seem to get it to go the final 1/4". I haven't been able to find a published dimension on the 200-4r torque converter so that I can measure this TC to make sure it's a proper length. I expect that I'm just not getting it fully seated or something. But would love to measure to make sure the TC is the proper dimension from pad to end of converter hub.. Wondering, were there any torque converter applications for this transmission that would differ from standard small-block + flexplate ? I think that's supposed to be 1" from mounting pad on flexplate to block, according to something I found on the net.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Humberd]

Usually you can get your figure tips behind it and the case when it’s all the way in trans
Sometimes you have to gently shake and pull converter In and out a little

 

[77 cruiser]

You must not have the converter in the pump all the way. Converter should be 1 inch from the bellhousing, flexplate 7/8 away from the mounting surface of the block.

 

[shovelrick]

Did it drop in 3 times when you were turning/pushing in?

 

[billdini]

I once had a motor that I bought and it had a pilot bearing installed and I used it in my 69 Chevelle with a TH350. Well it ran about 50 miles before I blew the tranny front pump. Kids do stupid things. Make sure one is not installed unless you know what tranny was always used with the motor. Any stick would have one installed in the crank and I forced it by bolting up the flywheel. .I made my share of mistakes over the years and I can tell you that you will never forget it when you screw up. .

 

[howsad4me]

I just tried again... as far as I can tell, I'm getting 3 "drops" of the torque converter towards the transmission. And, I am still at 7/8" inch from bellhousing mount surface to torque converter bolt pads. This is frustrating...

I measured my flex-plate to block distance, and the pads for mounting the torque converter to the machined block behind it appears to be about 1" exactly.

Were there ever torque converters made for 200-4r that sit out further than the 1 1/8" that I found as the proper distance? Like, maybe this torque converter was for a different application? Seems like a stretch.

BTW... I did a measurement of end of TC hub to the mounting bolt pads, and I came up with 5 15/16". The slots depth in the hub are about 1/2" exactly. I cross checked against the only resource I could find for torque converter dimensions ( Torque Converter info for various transmissions) and if it is to be believed, my torque converter is almost .100" longer than the max spec on that page. This is what get's be wondering about torque converter for different applications. Of course, I can't validate the information on that page.

As for the car, I just dropped the power glide that was working, removed the old flex-plate, installed a new flex-plate (Summit Racing SUM-G100SFI Summit Racing® SFI-Approved Flexplates | Summit Racing). The problem isn't with torque converter fitting in crank...

Oh well, time to go fiddle with it some more. Of course, it's on the trans jack under the car, and I can't slide the whole thing out because the car isn't high enough for trans on the jack. Means laying under the car. At least it's in the shade.

 

[shovelrick]

Any chance the flex plate is on backwards? just trying to think what I'd be checking

 

[howsad4me]

Any chance the flex plate is on backwards? just trying to think what I'd be checking

I checked it. Pads were sticking out towards transmission so it's right.

I took off the new flexplate, and compared to the old original one. It stuck out more to one side. Put the original back on the crank, and now I have appx 1/8" clearance. The snout of the torque converter is nicely in the crank, I can spin it nicely. I'm like 99% sure I seated the converter as far as it would go into the trans, it had a solid 3 different drops in.

I think I'll try it. Probably won't be ready to test until the weekend though.


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[Aml383]

Any chance the flex plate is on backwards? just trying to think what I'd be checking

Seen that before. If it clicked in 3 times and theres still 7/8 there that's a likely scenario.
Someone didn't know which way it went and lost the coin toss lol

 

[howsad4me]

Seen that before. If it clicked in 3 times and theres still 7/8 there that's a likely scenario.
Someone didn't know which way it went and lost the coin toss lol

I'm my case, the flexplate was tight against the torque converter. No gap at all. Pulled the new flexplate back off, put back on the old one, and now I have a small gap. In my case, the 7/8 inches measurement was from Bell housing mating surface to torque converter bolt pads, rather than the expected 1 1/8 inches. As if the torque converter is not seated fully.



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[shovelrick]

So it's OK with the old flex plate? did you try flipping the new one around? maybe the new one is wrong for your motor? I used some parallel flat washers between my conv. & flex plate to split the diff. in the gap I had, sounds like you don't have any gap

 

[600renegade]

If you feel it is fully seated, it may be.

If it is an aftermarket TC you are using, sometimes this happens. It happened to me last year as I was assembling a Yank TC in my new Gearstar ST3 TH350. I had less than 1" from the TC pads to the bellhousing mounting surface. This had the TC right up against the flexplate which did not give me the 1/8" gap to keep the pump and thrust bearing happy. The aftermarket TC's are not always machined the same as the stock fitment TC's.

Couple of ways you can fix this. You can get the pads on the TC milled to get your clearance, or I went a different route and found a 1/8" spacer for between my block and trans which has worked fine.

I probably could have left it as there was a very small gap but not knowing how much expansion the block, trans and all the moving parts would have I opted for the spacer.

 

[LeoP]

the distance between the pads on the torque converter won't be over an inch, maybe 1/2 to 7/8 of an inch. It usually doesn't take much to move the converter up to the flexplate, in some cases, the bolt will actually catch on the threads of the converter without moving it forward. Good luck with your car!!

 

[howsad4me]

If you feel it is fully seated, it may be.

If it is an aftermarket TC you are using, sometimes this happens. It happened to me last year as I was assembling a Yank TC in my new Gearstar ST3 TH350. I had less than 1" from the TC pads to the bellhousing mounting surface. This had the TC right up against the flexplate which did not give me the 1/8" gap to keep the pump and thrust bearing happy. The aftermarket TC's are not always machined the same as the stock fitment TC's.

Couple of ways you can fix this. You can get the pads on the TC milled to get your clearance, or I went a different route and found a 1/8" spacer for between my block and trans which has worked fine.

I probably could have left it as there was a very small gap but not knowing how much expansion the block, trans and all the moving parts would have I opted for the spacer.

Well, with my original flexplate, I have the 1/8"... gonna try it. I'm pretty good at dropping this transmission out now, so if I kill it, I'll be able to get it out for the rebuild. Honestly, it's used, so I'm still not quite sure of the condition, I might be in that boat anyways!

 

[howsad4me]

Well, my "ready to test next weekend" really turned into "ready to test next month". I finally got everything buttoned up with the used 200-4r swapped into my Chevelle. Took a bit of running, cycling gears, etc to get fluid up to the right level. I adjusted the TV cable per instructions. Took it for a test spin yesterday, and it moves! My light-throttle shift point on 1-2 is like 14 mph... maybe a little low, most guides seem to indicate should be 15-20mph. I'm going to try tightening the TV cable to get the pressure up more quickly, should give a little firmer and later shift.

Transmission works, not sure what condition all the clutches are in, don't know how the governor is set, but at least I have a first gear now that's better with my 3.08 rear ratio. The Powerglide with that rearend left a lot to be desired.

The torque converter is a bit of an unknown. It is an Art Carr part number, but when I called there shop, all they could tell me from the part number is that it's a non-lockup. Trans already had non-lockup modification done to it, so at least TC matches transmission.

Today will be the real test, and look under the car and see if I've lost much fluid... Was happy yesterday that I wasn't leaking fluid from the cooler lines / radiator fittings, since I made new lines. Was also happy radiator wasn't leaking (changed that at the same time).

 

[77 cruiser]

What gears do you have?

 

[howsad4me]

What gears do you have?

My rearend is currently 3.08 gears. The transmission is standard 200-4r gears, as far as I know. I'm guessing my current gears make 4th gear in transmission useless below like 75-80 mph... haven't driven it that much/fast yet, want to try and tune the TV cable first.

Ultimately, I think 3.55 gears would end up being a nice combo. A little deeper gear getting out the hole, and ideally can cruise 70mph in 4th and not bog the motor too much. I haven't checked the 3.55/26" tire against driveshaft 1/2 critical speed RPM point yet to see where vibration might occur. Suppose I need to go do some math on that.

My big issue is I swapped in an unknown condition transmission. It's possible the clutches are worn and I won't be able to firm up the shifts, and will have to pull it out for a rebuild. This is the first transmission swap I've ever done, so at the moment happy it's working at all!

 

[77 cruiser]

If you have the correct geometry for the cable on the throttle shaft, not much you can do but set the cable tight @ WOT. 1 or 2 clicks loose or tight is about it.

 

[howsad4me]

If you have the correct geometry for the cable on the throttle shaft, not much you can do but set the cable tight @ WOT. 1 or 2 clicks loose or tight is about it.

Yeah, that's true... if you go any tighter, the adjuster will click out on the next WOT pedal movement.

I did find this, that could be interesting: TV Cable Corrector Kit - AS1-01K

It's just a sprint that apparently is stronger than the spring in the transmission on the TV cable. So... you can tighten the cable, but when the TV cable runs out of length, this spring will compress while the throttle continues to rotate. Basically, should allow setting the TV cable a little tighter, without limiting WOT.

I guess the alternative would be to customize the position of the attachment to a shorter radius on the throttle lever... would pull the cable a shorter distance between idle->wot... but that sounds like a lot of work. Not sure it's worth it.

 

[howsad4me]

I adjusted the tv cable tighter, and now have 1-2 shift partial throttle up around 19 mph with a firmer shift The 2-3 shift is just over 30 mph at same partial throttle, and its firm enough that I know when it happens. Gotta check geometry on my adapter on carb throttle arm, make sure it's right I think if I floor it right now, the tv adjuster will click a bit to reach WOT, which will undo this adjustment I made .

I ordered the spring adapters from sonnax to test out.

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