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Here's a thread about a guy over in the Corvette forum who removed his thermostat and claims(with proof) it runs cooler and better. It's a long thread(about 81 replies) which got out of hand and was locked. But I thought it might be interesting to some of us.

I like technical discusions and maybe we can have a good one here on TC and learn something. Let's make sure it doesn't get out of hand like it did in the Vette forum. No bashing of the guy, no name calling, please. Maybe he is an idiot but that gives us no right...whoops, sorry. No name calling.


http://www.corvetteforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/027731.html

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-Mark TC# 717
ACES #1641
1967 Chevelle SS396/375
1967 RailVelle(Parting out)
1964 Chevelle 283/195
1975 Corvette 396/375
 

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I only read the first few posts, but his coolant temperature was 195, how hot were his block & heads?!!

Without a thermostat it is possible to have such quick coolant flow that it does not "pick up" or absorb the heat it could otherwise. A more accurate test than a camcorder on the gauge would be a few thermocouples on the block and heads and compare to the temp gauge. It is likely that the better method would be to use a restrictor, (like the guy who pulled the center out of his thermostat) and experiment with different diameter holes.
 

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i knocked the center out of my thermo and dont notice a significant difference

i did notice a difference after i cleaend out my rusty block withan acid wash but that was last year and now i am back to where i was before that

for the record, i did email stewart components about this issue quite awhile ago and they told me that the circulaiton too fast theory is a "wives tale" and that i should take the thermo out.
it would be interesting for someone else to pose this tot them and see if they come back again with the same answer

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Rich Baratta
Cocoa Beach, Fla
Team Chevelle #380
May 2001 Feature Car
[email protected]
www.chevelles.com/showroom/70_SS_454.jpg

[This message has been edited by 70 SS 454 (edited 06-04-2001).]
 

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big is on the money. Not only will the heat stay in the metal, the sensor will not get the proper transfer to it to allow a proper output to the gauge. Any one who has had an engine freeze, then drive it has seen this in reverse. The light or gauge will show everything OK, yet the radiator is boiling over and gaskets are blowing. Only after it sets and starts to thaw, will the gauge register a problem. Remember, if you don't put any coolant in your car, the gauge reading will be fine.
 

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Love that question and I have the answer: It depends. If ones ride will run cool (below 195) while cruising and heats up in stop and go, then a bigger radiator and a shroud is in order. A properly working thermostat will open a whatever ever degree it is designed for and shut below that. Say you have a 195 stat and the car runs 180 cruising then the temp guage should cycle up to 195 then drop to below 180 for awhile and come back to 195 and drop again. We all know HP builds heat, and in my opinion most of us have stop and go heating problems, so more air through the radiator at stop/slow speed is the biggest problem. Also heat is removed from the engine compartment better at speed than at idle, know of several folks that have solved their cooling problems with coated headers or wrap. One last shot, don't remove the stat, the water needs to stay in the radiator a micro second vs a nano second for the tubes and fins to properly cool it.
 

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What amazes me is how many people think or feel that they know more than the engineers who designed the vehicle in the first place! Wow, I guess the engineering people didn't quite understand the dynamics of heat transfer when they designed the cooling systems in these cars.


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MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
551,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html
 

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Do not remove the thermostat! It serves as a very usefull and needed part of your cooling system.
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Brett
'67
SS396
clone
 

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Kettering said:

"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no warranty problems".

If a thermostat isn't needed why do all the auto manufacturers install one?

G.
 

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Don't remove it. If you change eng efficacy ( more HP) =more heat. you need to balance the cooling system. IN roundy round race eng we used restricting washers to minimize water pump flow to matain an average heat.
( keeping water in rad to cool) and the down side of no thermostat,is a cold eng for quit awhile. Almost as bad as hot engine
My .02

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Wayne
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So many Mustangs
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To remove or not remove the thermostat?
That is the question.

A little automotive Shakespeare
 

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Wow! I just read the WHOLE post. It was long, but mostly worth the read. There are some interesting arguments there for both sides. I am not convinced that thermostat removal is appropriate in all cases or anything, but I do respect the guy for maintaing a professional composure through some of the slander.
I think only 3rd party independant test results, that are controlled, and have this hypothesis in mind, will truly make it decisive. For now, I'll stick to the original engineering specifications. Seems safer. My 2¢ worth.


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Bow_Tied aka Ron Cook
1969 300 Deluxe HTSS396 the69 325HPL35 69memorylane
1971 Malibu 2DR HT
"Never let fear and good judgement hold you back."
TC Member#1276 [email protected]
 

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Again, refer to my post about the engineers who designed these vehicles. You can have all the tests you want, however, it doesn't alter the fact that these cars, and every other car in the world, use thermostats to regulate the temperature of the coolant. It's there FOR A REASON. The more you guys deviate from the original engineered perameters, the more problems you incur. Ever wonder why?


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MalibuJerry350
TC Member #1279
Original owner '70 Chevelle.
551,000+ miles on car.
Hey, if it's got wheels, DRIVE IT!
My Chevelle: http://hometown.aol.com/erie614/myhomepage/index.html
 

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As a retired GM engineer who worked on these cars from 1956 til 1993, Jerry is absolutely right. My advice, don't remove anything until you understand why it's there.

Classic Examples:
- Remove thermostat - engine now warms up very slowly, heater doesn't work very well and sludge & water accumulate in the oil due to low operating temperature.
- Disconnect vacuum advance - Loss of say 5 mpg in highway fuel economy, no increase in performance.
- Remove heat valve and plug exhaust crossover in the intake - choke no longer works and engine runs poorly during warm-up.
- Remove choke - Car is difficult to start when cold.
- Remove fan shroud - Car overheats during extended idle.

Don't get me wrong. Many of these mods have their place on a strip car but not on a street car.

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Fred Aldrich
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Web Site: www.CoreComm.net/~faldrich

[This message has been edited by Fred Aldrich (edited 06-06-2001).]
 

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Now I'm not saying this is right, but I have removed the t-stat from a daily driver SBC. If I remember right the thing ran cold (140-160), never sat in the block long enough to get hot. It was by no means a performance engine, just didn't have the couple bucks for a new one (but did have a tube of RTV
).

I'll never do it again, as said before, just wasn't designed that way.

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71-72 Malibu
"I'm high all right, but on the real stuff
High octane gasoline
A clean windshield
And a shoe shine"
 

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There is one aspect of this debate I just have to comment on. It is the "you need some sort of restriction where the thermostat is or else the coolant will flow too fast through the radiator to be cooled" theory. I have heard it on this site dozens of times over the last 4 years, and read in the Year One catalog.

But this explanation just doesn't make any sense in terms engineering, heat transfer, etc... I think it's just one of those BS things that gets repeated over and over without really thinking about it. It may be true that taking out the restriction causes cooling problems, but the EXPLANATION must be something else.

I just Checked out the Stewart Components website. Under tech tip #3 they say "A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly." And then go on to explain why this is nonsense. Everything they say sounds reasonable to me. The do point out that removing the restriction can cause problems at high RPM with a "top tank" type radiator like most of our old Chevelles have. But the problem has nothing to do with the coolant moving too fast through the radiator to transfer heat.

I have one bit of personal experience. A 1980 chevy pickup with a 250 L6. With no thermostat the temp gauge never budged of the "cold" mark.


[This message has been edited by Carl Brune (edited 06-06-2001).]
 

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With due respect Carl. Stewart sells high flow water pumps and has selling a product at heart!

Light a candle and run your finger through the flame without stopping. Go fast the first time to get a feel for it and not hurt yourself. Now do it several more times and go a bit slower each time. We you get to the point you don't want to go any slower your finger is obsorbing more heat than the first quick pass... Do the same with an ice cube. Touch it for 1 sec the first time, 2 sec the next. Do it a few more times... It's the same principle as a cooling system..

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...Dennis
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I personally run a stat. I tried to run without it once and the temp crept up at highway speeds. Why? I dunno, but I guess the water didn't have enough time spent in the radiator to cool properly. This is what makes sense to me. If you take hot water, say 200f, and circulate it through a radiator for 1 minute and measure the temp drop, then circulate that same water for another 5 minutes and measure the temp again I would imagine the temp from the 1 min reading would be higher than the 5 min reading. I believe the stats function is to bring the engine upto operating temp quicker and then serve as a flow restriction in order to allow the water to spend more time in the radiator to be cooled.

With that said, I do have a problem with the theory of the water not having enough time to "soak up" heat in the block without a stat. I dont see where having a constant supply of cool water would slow down the transfer of heat from cast iron to water. I do understand that the coolant temp reading would not be a true indication of how hot the block is but I dont believe the block would be any hotter with cool water circulating through it rather than warm water. If this theory were true then inboard boat motors would run a closed cooling system rather than the open system that is used.

JMHO


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