Team Chevelle banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part May's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Setting up a street strip SB now that we're expecting to be 530 to 550 hp (pending an engine dyno ) that may be running between 120 and 125 in a quarter . Thats just a bench stab at it but probably not a far cry off .

The engines max hp is likely to be around 6500 ish rpm so we would like to see that 6500 plus a hundred or 2 rpm at the end of a quarter mile to optimize ET .

We originally were going to run a th350 but then after getting a little overzealous with caming and heads our engine will be peaking up some higher than planned . If we run the 350 tranny with say a 373 or even 410 gear we won't be showing up @ max hp at ET .
We would need upwards of a 430 rear dif with the 1:1 final gear in the 350 tranny . 430 is a little on the nasty side for the street so we found this custom 700R4 tranny that looks like it could be a good solution here.

One of the gears in this tranny is a 1.27:1 . That along with a 373 street friendly rear dif might be a match made in heaven .
Anyone ever run one of these or know about the company??
Its
GV gear vendors overdrive
Attached here is the gear spread .
Looks like cool stuff man .
Never liked 700R4 because of the puke one two shift .a snooty 3 to 1 first then second is taller than a tree lol
But this girl here looks like shes worth a date lol
Just went on the site and they have the same set ups in the 3 gear trannys as well.
This is either fools gold or a game changer for me !
And it's not a tranny . It's a bolt on
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I've seen vibration issues with Gear Vendors and one of which in a 68 Camaro just couldn't be sorted out despite new parts from the output shaft back. The heavy GV unit far from the x-member amplifies any imperfection.

4L80E is the best option, for about 100% of street cars. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,063 Posts
200-4r is probably next.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dansk

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I've seen vibration issues with Gear Vendors and one of which in a 68 Camaro just couldn't be sorted out despite new parts from the output shaft back. The heavy GV unit far from the x-member amplifies any imperfection.

4L80E is the best option, for about 100% of street cars. :)
Oh ok . Didnt know that. I'll have to find out more .
I originally posted the thread as a choice between the GV 700r4 or the stock th350 that I've already got.
Then I went on the site and saw that they offer these for th350 as well .
I'd be looking at the one for the 350..
The 4l80 I never liked because its heavier and the 700r4 i never liked because of the huge ratio drop from 1 to 2 shift .

And it isnt the extra gear that I'm necessarily looking for . What I need is a shorter than 1:1 final gear because I'm never gonna see the end of a quarter @6500 rpm (which is about where my max hp will be ) with a 1:1 final gear along with anything less than about a 430 rear dif .which isnt real street friendly.

I really should have kept this engine at 6 grand max hp but I didn't so here I am .

What I absolutely do not want to do is leave 50 to 70 hp on the table out the back door of a quarter Mile . To me thats pointless so with this tranny my final gear would be 1.19:1 instead of 1:1 in my stock 350 tranny .
The 1.19 final gear along with a 373 rear will be very close to the same as having the 1:1
Final gear with a 430 rear.

But if this GV deal is gonna cause me problems then I'll run the 350 tranny with a 430 gear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
Oh ok . Didnt know that. I'll have to find out more .
I originally posted the thread as a choice between the GV 700r4 or the stock th350 that I've already got.
Then I went on the site and saw that that offer these for th350 as well .
I'd be looking at the one for the 350..
The 4l80 I never liked because its heavier and the 700r4 i never liked because of the huge ratio drop from 1 to 2 shift .

Abd it isnt the extra gear that I'm necessarily looking for . What I need is a shorter than 1:1 final gear because I'm never gonna see the end of a quarter @6500 rpm (which is about where my max hp will be ) with a 1:1 final gear along with anything less than about a 430 rear dif .which isnt real street friendly.

I really should have kept this engine at 6 grand max hp but I didn't so here I am .

What I absolutely do not want to to leave 50 to 70 hp on the table out the back door of a quarter Mile . To me thats pointless so with this tranny my final gear would be 1.19:1 instead of 1:1 in my stock 350 tranny .
The 1.19 final gear along with a 373 rear will be very close to the same as having the 1:1
Final gear with a 430 rear.

But if this GV deal is gonna cause me problems then I'll run the 350 tranny with a 430 gear
Based on a quick google:

A 4L80e will weigh about 180 lbs.
A 700r4 with a GV will weigh about 155 + 35 = 190 lbs
A th350 with a GV will weigh about 120 + 35 = 155 lbs
A 2004r will weigh about 125 lbs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Based on a quick google:

A 4L80e will weigh about 180 lbs.
A 700r4 with a GV will weigh about 155 + 35 = 190 lbs
A th350 with a GV will weigh about 120 + 35 = 155 lbs
A 2004r will weigh about 125 lbs
Dam . Thats what I get for listening to people without checking for myself lol
I heard the 4l80 was a fair ammount heavier.
You heard anything about these GV units ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,187 Posts
Dam . Thats what I get for listening to people without checking for myself lol
I heard the 4l80 was a fair ammount heavier.
You heard anything about these GV units ?
Only what I’ve read on the Internet. :). Mostly good, bulletproof, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
7,973 Posts
I'd Post a thread for "Gear Vendor Owners" in the Perf. section, I want one but have other priorities right now, $3K :oops: I've read a few minor problems but hey it's Hot Roddin, Oh and you get 6 gears in a T-350/400
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,959 Posts
If you want the GV I would put it behind a TH400 Trany
then they both would be the Strongest you could get

Unless you go for the 4L80M from 4L80E – Jake's Performance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'd Post a thread for "Gear Vendor Owners" in the Perf. section, I want one but have other priorities right now, $3K :oops: I've read a few minor problems but hey it's Hot Roddin, Oh and you get 6 gears in a T-350/400
I'm gonna do that . Maybe I'll get some more play there lol

Yeah shes definitely on the pricey side but look at what you get ya know ??

That highest gear along with a 373 dif puts you at a 290 dif . Ride wherever .
Yet that 1 , 2, "2 over " shift with a nice steetable 373 rear would be eq to about a 430 rear dif with a 1:1 final gear in the stock 350 tranny which is what I need for this thing to be talking as loud as it can at the end of a quarter..
I'm kinda kicking myself in the ass for not holding this engine down to earth . To me 6 grand is earth lol.
6500 isnt crazy but I didnt need it and i still dont even know exactly where its gonna be till i dyno it . Itll definitely be in that hood though ..

Yeah I just talked to a guy from hughes who has no dog in this hunt who gave the thumbs up on the GV. I mentioned hearing about vibration problems and he commented.
"Anythings gonna vibrate if it isnt put together right . Thats a high quality unit "
I'm not sold yet but my fingers on the trigger lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you want the GV I would put it behind a TH400 Trany
then they both would be the Strongest you could get

Unless you go for the 4L80M from 4L80E – Jake's Performance
Yeah a 400 . But from what I've heard a 350 can take big hp if bult right and I've got 3 here lol.
Where's Jake's out of ?
I need this tranny worked
 

·
Premium Member
1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. 590 hp 600 tq, RV T-400 Freakshow 3200 stall, 3.73 12 bolt posi
Joined
·
7,973 Posts
I had a turbo 350 behind a 500+hp 467 in a 73 elky and no problems then swapped it to a guy and he beat on it with no problems then he sold it, I agree about the 400 but since you already have the 350 use it, them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I had a turbo 350 behind a 500+hp 467 in a 73 elky and no problems then swapped it to a guy and he beat on it with no problems then he sold it, I agree about the 400 but since you already have the 350 use it, them
Yeah now I'm startin to ponder on the difference comin out of the hole
430 rear gear with 2.52 first
versus 373 with 2.52 first
That's quite a difference but I guess that would be worked out with the converter.

Or I've already got a 2.75 first in this 350 tranny I've got now. Maybe just use that along with 373
 

·
Registered
Ryan
Joined
·
265 Posts
I just picked up a used gear vendors for my th350. I hope to have it together in the next few weeks. I’ll report back when I do.

If you already have a well sorted out th350 with a good converter then a gearvendors makes sense. If not, a 4l80 or well built 2004r would be probably the best choices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aml383

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I just picked up a used gear vendors for my th350. I hope to have it together in the next few weeks. I’ll report back when I do.

If you already have a well sorted out th350 with a good converter then a gearvendors makes sense. If not, a 4l80 or well built 2004r would be probably the best choices.
Yeah please do . I'm curious. Heard alot of good things about them.
. As of right now I've decided to do this .

I've got brand new 373 gears sittin right here for the 10 bolt 8.2 that's in the car now.
So I'm gonna put those in .
Then I'll have the engine dynoed within the next few weeks at which time I'll call mr converter and tell him to get me a converter for the weight 373 gear engine torque and 2.75 first gear 350 tranny . A converter that will allow that set up to cross the .25 mile line at max rpm/hp
.only thing is I'm not sure the 8.2 is gonna make it especially if I get the car to nearly dead hook like I want
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Gear Vendors or no, I'd trust a TH350 over a 700R4. The latter are kinda famous for being easy to break.
I do know that about the 700r4's but they can be built to take it . I never liked em anyway .
I don't like the big spread in ratio between the 1 2 shift . But yeah I'm gonna take a shot with 373 and a quality converter to get me there. See what happens
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
You can split the gearing up however you want. It all comes down to laws of physics. You can only go so fast with X power and Y weight. So you can somewhat reverse math into things. Remember torque is what moves things.

Do you want a track car or a road car? Gearing it to the torque curve not peak RPM would probably suit you better in the long run. Having 2 sets of tires with different diameters (street/track) is a way to sort of have your cake and eat it too.

In my quest for a high 9 sec. street legal car, I went against conventional thinking using a T400 and 3.50's with a 275/60-15. ( torque curve between 4500-6500 is never below 670 lbs.) Most would say 4.10/4.11's based off of the peak HP rpm. Fuzzy math says I'll loose around a tenth or such in ET. but drive on the street tons better and not hate the highway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
You can split the gearing up however you want. It all comes down to laws of physics. You can only go so fast with X power and Y weight. So you can somewhat reverse math into things. Remember torque is what moves things.

Do you want a track car or a road car? Gearing it to the torque curve not peak RPM would probably suit you better in the long run. Having 2 sets of tires with different diameters (street/track) is a way to sort of have your cake and eat it too.

In my quest for a high 9 sec. street legal car, I went against conventional thinking using a T400 and 3.50's with a 275/60-15. ( torque curve between 4500-6500 is never below 670 lbs.) Most would say 4.10/4.11's based off of the peak HP rpm. Fuzzy math says I'll loose around a tenth or such in ET. but drive on the street tons better and not hate the highway.
Wow . Yeah . What you are talking about runs right about side by side with my outside of the box thinking in my very second post on this site which is I was trying to build a taller geared (and thereby inherently more streetable ) torque monster that would perhaps see the coveted 10's for a street car with a SB .I did receive some helpful and encouraging feedback from some along with some negative and discouraging feedback as well from others but generally I'd say that most people even on the encouraging end of the stick pointed toward more conventional means.
My view is that inexperience can actually be a plus in anything in life . Unclouded with conventional means of doing things .

The funny part about it is that through this engine and car build here it's been somewhat of an elastic retreat if you will in that every time I make a move toward the more conventional methods of achieving a short ET in a quarter which the jury says would be by the means of longer cam and higher RPM my mind keeps pulling me back to my original ideas of taller gear and less rpm and bigger torque. And now I get a guy like you who I'm assuming is very experienced lending creed to my original ideas about this here thing .

And yes I was absolutely wanting no more than a 355 gear right from the start of all of this yet here I am trying to find a combination of transmission and rear dif gearing that will net me 430 !! Lol

Ok so you are suggesting that my setting up gearing so that my engine sees max torque at ET versus max rpm may see similar results ?
I kind of thought this GV idea was the game changer for me here but please take a look at what I've got so far here and throw me a bone

. The variables at this point are transmission and converter and rear dif. The mill is what it is now other than choice of rocker ratio which maybe you will lend some advice on that as well .
.. I'm all ears to a guy who churned out a 9 second pump gas car that had 350's for gears lol. Incredible is what that is .

- 66 chevelle.
Very close to 3500 lbs with me and gas in the car .

- 275 60 15 MT ET streets

- 10 bolt 8.2 with 336 gear pending a change

- th350 with short 2.75 first . I also have other TH350's laying right here that have the stock 2.52 first gears in them

- 385 CI small block. 89 block with 1 piece RMS . Scat cast 3.75 crank . Scat 6 inch rods . Flat top weisco forged pistons
11:1 cr

- afr aluminum 1095- 716. 195cc competition heads. 304 [email protected] ...308 [email protected] .600

- Howard's harold brookshire series solid roller cam. Single pattern . 31 degree .
The specifications are in the attachment here in this post. I'm still trying to decide what rockers I should use for lift .
Some suggest using 1.5 which would put me at .589 and others adamantly disagree and say lift it well over .600 because although my heads only flow to around .600 lifting higher than .600 is a plus because that would hold the valve open for a longer period of time at all lift points .

- air gap intake without cut out in divider

- Holley AED 850 mechanical secondary carb

I'm going to get another rearend for the car . A stout 12 bolt or 9 inch and I'd love nothing more than to run a 355 gear yet still have this thing be about all it can be in a quarter.
Again..I really think/thought one of these GV units would be the holy grail lol
Any advice that you would lend here would be immensely appreciated. Thanks
The cam I've got is the second one down from the top of the 31 degree major intensity harold brookshire. It is the R2433930
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Well lets see if I can convey my line of thinking here in a somewhat orderly manner without writing a book.

Having had the Lemans for almost 4 decades now its seen a few different setups. I've learned that what works at one level doesn't always work at another and just because something worked on someone else's car doesn't mean it will work the same on yours.

I started out putting the car back together taking a combination of parts laying around and built a 781 headed 468 shooting for 10.90's. Made it to 11.43 @ 118 before an oil filter failure wiped out the bearings.

That got me to the 9.90's N/A street idea.
So I started doing some math to figure out what power do I need to achieve the goal.
Then comes street ability and durability. ( what RPM range is that power made )
After tons of engine research, countless computer combination tests, and many e-mails ( 3 yrs) .
I picked out my 532 combination with some assistance.

Once I had power figures, more math and computer simulations followed.
The simulation trends showed that while not being optimal for 1/4 mile ET, an engine with a nice flat torque curve won't be giving up much using a lower stall and a taller gear letting the motor work rather than being at peak power and running on the converter short gears. ( think trebuchet -vs- catapult )

Here's an example of two different lines of thinking.
My buddies 55 I've been doing fab work on, is a 423 cid SBC ( 700hp @ 8000 rpm ), Powerglide w/trans brake and 6500 stall, 4.86 gears and 31.5" tall tires. ( back halved w/ladder bars )

710736
710737
710738


-- VS --

My 65' Lemans 532 BBC ( 840hp @ 6700rpm ) T400 foot brake and 4500 stall, and 3.50 gears and a 275/60-15.
( modified stock rear suspension configuration )
710740


Two different paths with a similar destination.
His is optimized for the track where mine is not.
Mine is street legal where his is not.
Mine is somewhat freeway friendly and his is not real road friendly at all.
It depends on what your after.

I'm not an expert on cams, I left that to Mike and Bullet cams.
I just told them where I'd like power peaks if possible to coincide with the projected gearing/tire.
I don't see where 1.6's would help that much, the heads don't really flow anything more after .550 lift and your at .589 with 1.5's.

As for the GV ?
Never played with one.
In my opinion if you want to play that game, shit can the hole works and just go LS with a 6 speed.

Dyno numbers would help you to narrow thinks down, as then you'd know what your working with.
After I got numbers, I set the stall about the beginning of the torque curve flattening and geared for slightly below peak power and converter slippage.
I went about mine knowing what I was after, and figured out what I needed and tailored it to do it.
It hasn't run 9.90's yet as I'm still finishing the transformation, but fuzzy math says it should with some cushion room.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aml383
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top